UK to side with banks in opposing financial tax

[Thanas]

BBC

Bank shares have fallen in London after the UK said it would "resist" a financial transaction tax on EU members proposed by the European Commission.

The tax would raise about 57bn euros ($78bn; £50bn) a year and would come into effect at the start of 2014.

At close, Royal Bank of Scotland was behind by 3.64%, Lloyds Banking Group by 2.4%, and Barclays by 1.22%.

London would be hardest hit by the tax as the majority of banking transactions in Europe come through the city.
'Tax on London?'

City of London officials have said that about 80% of the revenues of any Europe-wide financial tax would come from London.

Stuart Fraser of the City of London said the question that had to be asked was whether the proposal was "a tax on London".

Mr Fraser also warned that such a tax could mean a lot of banking transaction being lost to outside of the EU, and that the cost of setting up the scheme could outstrip whatever monies it raised.

Under the proposals, the financial tax would be levied at a rate of 0.1% on all transactions between institutions when at least one party is based in the EU. Derivative contracts would be taxed at a rate of 0.01%.

The BBC's business editor Robert Peston said that while dealers and investors in financial products such as derivatives and bonds were not happy about the proposal, share dealers were more relaxed as the tax would cost less than the existing stamp duty, which the tax would replace.

Meanwhile, in Germany and France bank shares also fell at close, and the European Banking Federation called the tax a "nonsense".

Among the market losers were Deutsche Bank and Commerzbank in Germany, and Societe Generale and BNP Paribas in France.

Despite the opposition Algirdas Semeta, EC commissioner for taxation, customs, anti-fraud and audit, said: "Our project is sound and workable. I have no doubt this tax can deliver what EU citizens expect - a fair contribution from the financial sector."

The EU executive also points out that financial services are "in the majority of cases exempt from paying VAT (due to difficulties in measuring the taxable base)".

Because expecting to pay 0.01% for derivatives or 0.1% per transaction is such a challenging amount, especially as they are excempt from paying VAT (which is much more) and the amount is lower than the stamp duty.

[Starglider]

Stamp duty only applies to shares in UK registered companies, a tiny fraction of the total business handled by City of London banks. The proposed tax applies to bonds, swaps, futures of all types and CDS. Obviously Germany would love to damage the UK financial sector in any way possible and the EU is grubbing around for any money they can get to paper over the cracks for just a little bit longer.

The official response to this should be "Yes, we would be happy to adopt that if the EU agrees to pay the implementation costs". Then start a commission to examine proposals for a steering committie that will appoint a review board to select a strategy for appointing commissioners who will liase with the industry to work towards a sustainable future interpretation of the policy. Have lots of expensive meetings in Italy, bill the EU for them, keep pushing the date out, never commit to a timeline and above all never actually do anything.

[Thanas]

Obviously Germany would love to damage the UK financial sector in any way possible

Why would we, considering our banks do a lot of trading there and have a lot invested in the finance sector? Have you got any evidence to prove this?

[Tribun]

Guess it proves once again that the UK is addicted to suck the cock of the big money. Not that it comes as a surprise.

[Starglider]

Guess it proves once again that the UK is addicted to suck the cock of the big money. Not that it comes as a surprise.

As many posters here will assure you, the UK is a poor broken shell of a country. We have no manufacturing or worthwhile industry to speak of (any OCED data to the contrary is obviously propaganda). Our society is a barbaric wasteland of anglo-saxonism, lacking the inherent cultural superiority of real Europeans (rumours that our healthcare system is more universal than Germany's are patently ridiculous). Given these dire straits, surely you cannot blame us for trying to protect our one industry that is globally competitive? How cruel you must be to want to destroy our sole means of avoiding mass starvation.

[J]

The Dutch have also rejected it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/ ... 2920110929

European transaction tax bad for banks - Dutch
AMSTERDAM, Sept 29 | Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:48am EDT

AMSTERDAM, Sept 29 (Reuters) - The Netherlands is not in favour of introducing a financial transactions tax in Europe because it would be dangerous for European banks, the Dutch deputy foreign minister said on Thursday.

"If such a tax must be introduced, than it must be done globally. If you only do it in Europe, that would be very bad, and even dangerous for the European banks," Ben Knapen said in a statement.

Knapen was responding to a proposal by the European Union's executive on Wednesday for a bloc-wide tax on financial transactions that it said would raise 57 billion euros a year. (Reporting By Aaron Gray-Block)

[Colonel Olrik]

Guess it proves once again that the UK is addicted to suck the cock of the big money. Not that it comes as a surprise.

As many posters here will assure you, the UK is a poor broken shell of a country. We have no manufacturing or worthwhile industry to speak of (any OCED data to the contrary is obviously propaganda). Our society is a barbaric wasteland of anglo-saxonism, lacking the inherent cultural superiority of real Europeans (rumours that our healthcare system is more universal than Germany's are patently ridiculous). Given these dire straits, surely you cannot blame us for trying to protect our one industry that is globally competitive? How cruel you must be to want to destroy our sole means of avoiding mass starvation.

I have an idea: why don't you apply the tax yourselves, and use the money to save your military and defense industry instead of actively destroying it? My colleagues at BAE are polishing their CVs right now, and it will be terribly embarrassing to be utterly passed by France, no?

[Starglider]

I have an idea: why don't you apply the tax yourselves, and use the money to save your military and defense industry instead of actively destroying it?

Perhaps because we have accepted German leadership and wisdom, and now realise that kinetic military actions should not be encouraged? You're always saying that 'soft power' is far more desireable than such antiquated toys as aircraft carriers. Surely you don't want the evil decadent anglo-saxons to have any more barbaric military capability than we already have?

That said, as noted earlier the UK already has a stamp duty on British equities. That money goes to the UK government. The EU wants to replace that income stream with a tax that goes straight to Brussels for bailing out PIGGieS and funding their caviar brunches. In what possible way could that be good for the UK?

[Colonel Olrik]

I have an idea: why don't you apply the tax yourselves, and use the money to save your military and defense industry instead of actively destroying it?

Perhaps because we have accepted German leadership and wisdom, and now realise that kinetic military actions should not be encouraged? You're always saying that 'soft power' is far more desireable than such antiquated toys as aircraft carriers. Surely you don't want the evil decadent anglo-saxons to have any more barbaric military capability than we already have?

Of course I do. My bonus is proportional to it

[Starglider]

Of course I do. My bonus is proportional to it

Well, my revenues are currently proportional to the revenues of certain City of London wealth management companies, so perhaps we can at least understand each other's positions.

Seriously, a significant reason for the UK stayed out of the euro was a desire to wait and see if it worked and that turned out to be very sensible. So why don't you go ahead and implement the EU transaction tax, and if it turns out well for Frankfurt then I'm sure we'll set up a quango to study whether the UK could benefit from a similar policy.

[Colonel Olrik]

Seriously, a significant reason for the UK stayed out of the euro was a desire to wait and see if it worked and that turned out to be very sensible. So why don't you go ahead and implement the EU transaction tax, and if it turns out well for Frankfurt then I'm sure we'll set up a quango to study whether the UK could benefit from a similar policy.

Regardless, I hope that you at least agree that the scale of money and power is presently too skewed in favour of the financial sector fuckers that own a ridiculously underdamped system, bordering on unstable, and who try hard and have managed to position themselves in a win-win situation at the expense of everybody else.

[Thanas]

Starglider, you have been making several claims in this thread:


a) Asserting that Germany wants to destroy the finance sector
b) Arguing that some posters claim the UK is a broken shell of a country
c) Your last claim: "Perhaps because we have accepted German leadership and wisdom, and now realise that kinetic military actions should not be encouraged? You're always saying that 'soft power' is far more desireable than such antiquated toys as aircraft carriers. Surely you don't want the evil decadent anglo-saxons to have any more barbaric military capability than we already have?"

Provide evidence for each of those claims. I am especially interested in when Germany has ever protested the UK building carriers, has described the Britons as evil and decadent, or described military capabilites as barbaric?

[Big Orange]

The UK having an unhealthy fixation on banking for the sake of banking and overpriced housing has done most people in the UK little to no favours, however manufacturing has not been completely been drained away in the UK (despite a century of slow decline as a major manufacturer) when the successful Jaguar Land Rover (owned by an Indian magnate) has opened a new car plant at Wolverhampton and manufacturing PMI was at 51.1 last month (though consumer spending has drastically decreased). I don't mind a financial tax imposed on the City of London when the City elite has never seemed to really contribute most of their wealth to the rest of the UK anyway (when the rank and file banking employees have more paltry pay, and are fired at the drop of a hat). Also the EU, despite its faults, had its Court of Justice support an English land lady when she "illegally" purchased a Greek decoder card to screen sporting events, against the wishes of the evil Murdoch Media Empire.

[Flameblade]

Starglider, you have been making several claims in this thread:


a) Asserting that Germany wants to destroy the finance sector
b) Arguing that some posters claim the UK is a broken shell of a country
c) Your last claim: "Perhaps because we have accepted German leadership and wisdom, and now realise that kinetic military actions should not be encouraged? You're always saying that 'soft power' is far more desireable than such antiquated toys as aircraft carriers. Surely you don't want the evil decadent anglo-saxons to have any more barbaric military capability than we already have?"

Provide evidence for each of those claims. I am especially interested in when Germany has ever protested the UK building carriers, has described the Britons as evil and decadent, or described military capabilites as barbaric?

Judging by the placement of italicized words and laughing-smileys in his posts, I'd say he was being over-the-top sarcastic. Apparently sarcasm needs more emoticons loaded into it to have people notice it.

Obviously sarcasm is totally undetectable.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Judging by the placement of italicized words and laughing-smileys in his posts, I'd say he was being over-the-top sarcastic. Apparently sarcasm needs more emoticons loaded into it to have people notice it.

Obviously sarcasm is totally undetectable.

Now now, we all know that Germans are indeed humour-disabled, but I think that Thanas' post is more of a reaction to the fact that Starglider loves to make European Finance Thread drive-bys which consist almost entirely of attempts to bait Thanas, and by 'loves' i mean he does it in like every fucking thread he can, and it's not only tiresome but seems more like petty sniping than acerbic jocularity in any case, especially with the weird passive-aggressive 'some posters say...' shtick.

[Thanas]

Judging by the placement of italicized words and laughing-smileys in his posts, I'd say he was being over-the-top sarcastic. Apparently sarcasm needs more emoticons loaded into it to have people notice it.

Obviously sarcasm is totally undetectable.

Thank you for interpreting his words for me. I would completely be unable to understand anything he would say were it not for you, o wise specimen. How can I ever repay your vast insight into the psyche of people you have never met, o glorious enlightener.

In case you did not get it, that was sarcasm.