What does the Occupy Movement Mean to You?

[Surlethe]

I'm not as concerned with income inequality as I am with poor governance and dynamism. In other words, what troubles me is: regulatory capture, the Capitol/lobbying revolving door, and barriers to interdecadal/intergenerational class dynamism. I don't give a shit if somebody makes minimum wage as long as he's not starving, has the opportunity to advance or start his own business with some reasonable chance of success and not-too-high cost of failure, and can send his kids to a decent school. I don't give too much of a shit if some banker is making $700 million, as long as poor people aren't starving to death in the streets and the banker's not golfing buddies with congresscritters or people from the SEC.

Likewise, if we want to solve inequality, I don't think we need to tax rich people relatively more --- relatively speaking, our tax system is already more progressive, and, in absolute terms, it does more to correct income inequality, than every other country in the OECD. We need more taxes on everybody. But more importantly, we need to wisely spend the money we bring in: that means national health care with price controls so that we don't bankrupt ourselves on Medicare, that means fewer overlapping programs, that means more broad-based redistribution and less military bullshit, that means one financial regulator and not four, one food regulator and not two, and so on.

So my vision for where society ultimately should head is kind of different from whatever vision OWS might have. But I wish them luck, because from where we stand now, we both want to go the same direction.

To sum up, let me quote from The Pain, from a letter written to a Tea Partier:

I know you and I are located at roughly orange and indigo on the political spectrum but I can't help but feel the Tea Party really ought to be down there demonstrating alongside all the insufferable nosering-wearing anarchists [of Occupy Wall Street]. The Tea Party formed when enough conservatives felt the Republican Party had betrayed or abandoned them; this demonstration seems like proof that a critical mass of progressives now feels the same way about the Obama administration. The one consensus in this country is that things are fucked up. We both agree that absolutely no one in the government cares what we think about anything. It seems to me that the main difference between Left and Right anymore is that you guys blame The Government for everything while we blame Corporate America. It's past time we all noticed that there's no difference between these two anymore; they're all exactly the same people. They're all former classmates and golf partners. In other words the great ideological divide between us increasingly looks like a false dichotomy, and about the only thing keeping us from forming that formidable coalitionthat political philosopher Charles Daniels called "the cowboys and the hippies, the rebels and the yanks," is our mutual distaste. But look: I despise those feckless hippies and their goddamn drum circles, and I'm still going down there every day, because I feel like I can’t not be there. Even if you're not going, let me know what you think about all this. We may be the only two people on our respective sides who are in any contact with each other and as such we are like diplomats from two great powers at war. We should keep the lines of communication open.

[Simon_Jester]

It may trigger an actual movement which will produce real change if a few of them get shot by live bullets from the cops in the street.

Which ain't gonna happen.

I wouldn't rule it out. Remember Kent State?

[Col. Crackpot]

It may trigger an actual movement which will produce real change if a few of them get shot by live bullets from the cops in the street.

Which ain't gonna happen.

I wouldn't rule it out. Remember Kent State?

Everyone does, which is precisely why it won't happen again. Furthermore if not for Neil Young writing and recording a catchy smash hit song with CSNY about it in barely 15 minutes it happened, the long term propaganda value of that tragedy would have been greatly diminished.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The "Occupy Wall Street" movement means sweet fuck-all to me. Why? It's a day late, and a buck short. Where were these clowns back in 2008 ... back when it was becoming clear that the missteps of an entire generation had inflated housing prices well beyond what was feasible or affordable. When it should've been blatantly clear to all but the dimmest bulbs that the financial industry's main goal was to make debt slaves of everybody outside of the top 1% of rich white assholes; with the approval and assistance of their corporatist whores in government.

And it's probably going to go nowhere in the United States unless someone in a position of authority does something really stupid and shoots at protesters with live ammunition. Even then, it would probably have to happen several times before people really start caring. Why? The American mainstream media has done an excellent job of spinning the movement as a the filthy socialist hippy version of the Tea Party ... a bunch of wannabe communists with overblown entitlement complexes and poor hygiene who should stop protesting and get jobs. Just like they've managed to spin the protests in Europe as spoiled socialists used to living high on the dole who are upset that they have to take their medicine.

[Darth Fanboy]

Yeah we won't have anyone shot with bullets, we can just use harmless stuff like tear gas cans!

And yes I know what is wrong with that statement, but the point is that nothing can be ruled out. To me the increased tension is Oakland is direct evidence that tragedies resulting in escalation are entirely possible. Even if it isn't bullets fired into a crowd, it could very well be another tear gas can, or a baton, or a taser. It's foolish to say definitively that a bigger tragedy is impossible.

[Plushie]

I know you and I are located at roughly orange and indigo on the political spectrum but I can't help but feel the Tea Party really ought to be down there demonstrating alongside all the insufferable nosering-wearing anarchists [of Occupy Wall Street]. The Tea Party formed when enough conservatives felt the Republican Party had betrayed or abandoned them; this demonstration seems like proof that a critical mass of progressives now feels the same way about the Obama administration. The one consensus in this country is that things are fucked up. We both agree that absolutely no one in the government cares what we think about anything. It seems to me that the main difference between Left and Right anymore is that you guys blame The Government for everything while we blame Corporate America. It's past time we all noticed that there's no difference between these two anymore; they're all exactly the same people. They're all former classmates and golf partners. In other words the great ideological divide between us increasingly looks like a false dichotomy, and about the only thing keeping us from forming that formidable coalitionthat political philosopher Charles Daniels called "the cowboys and the hippies, the rebels and the yanks," is our mutual distaste. But look: I despise those feckless hippies and their goddamn drum circles, and I'm still going down there every day, because I feel like I can’t not be there. Even if you're not going, let me know what you think about all this. We may be the only two people on our respective sides who are in any contact with each other and as such we are like diplomats from two great powers at war. We should keep the lines of communication open.

God damned this.

What I feel about OWS, and about the Tea Party, is that the people of this country are finally getting fed up with the ruling class, on both sides of the political divide. What's happened is the system of the Founders has failed and an aristocracy has grown up in Washington and in Wall Street and everywhere else in this country that has a nearly unbreakable hold on political, economic, and military power. What OWS, the Tea Party, and whatever other popular movement you can think of represents is that American society right now is one great big pile of tinder and the first guy with a flint or a match who can get a sustainable flame burning is going to cause the whole thing to catch in a stupendous way and he's going to enjoy an awful lot of power because of it.

The first person who can figure out how to unite the Tea Partiers and the Occupiers might as well be crowned King of America right off the bat. Scares the bejesuz out of me but fills me with hope anyway.

Whenever my boss gets back from recuperating and I can take some time off I'm heading straight down to Occupy Philadelphia and talking about increasing the size of Congress ten-fold or holding an Article V Convention until my jaw falls off.

[JME2]

For me, OWS represents the culmination of over a decade of stupidity, callouses, and economic and political malaise.

This is something that's been building for a while, something that really should have exploded back in 2008 when the clusterfuck began or even during the height of the Bush junta. I want to believe that this will make a difference.

But as of now, the movement is rudderless and needs direction if if's going to survive in the long-term or lead to an effective successor movement.

[Drooling Iguana]

Where were these clowns back in 2008

They were voting for Obama, thinking that that would make a difference. They were wrong, of course, but it would've been difficult to know that at the time.

[salm]

Where were these clowns back in 2008 ... .

Where were you back in 2008?

[The Romulan Republic]

Where were these clowns back in 2008

They were voting for Obama, thinking that that would make a difference. They were wrong, of course, but it would've been difficult to know that at the time.

Oversimplification and exaggeration. To claim that electing Obama made no difference at all is preposterous. Obama has not been as good as one might have hoped, but I still do not see how any sane, informed person can honestly believe there would be no difference between him and a Republican.

That said, yes, its easy to see that a lot of these may be disappointed Obama supporters. I wonder if the size of the movement is an indication of poor chances at reelection for Obama? If so, I'm not sure weather to be more pleased or terrified. On the one hand, I can't honestly say the man deserves reelection. On the other hand, I can't honestly say that there's any likelihood of getting something else other than an even worse Republican.

[Lord Zentei]

I'm not as concerned with income inequality as I am with poor governance and dynamism. In other words, what troubles me is: regulatory capture, the Capitol/lobbying revolving door, and barriers to interdecadal/intergenerational class dynamism. I don't give a shit if somebody makes minimum wage as long as he's not starving, has the opportunity to advance or start his own business with some reasonable chance of success and not-too-high cost of failure, and can send his kids to a decent school. I don't give too much of a shit if some banker is making $700 million, as long as poor people aren't starving to death in the streets and the banker's not golfing buddies with congresscritters or people from the SEC.

This.

Also, I can't see that the OWS distributed network model is going anywhere. It's excellent for organizing mass demonstrations through the internet and word-of-mouth, but in order to do anything, you need leadership, and that is something the OWS groups are highly adverse to; and understandably so - they observed what happened to the Tea Party (which was initially far closer to OWS than to the current crop of opportunistic social conservatives) when it was taken over by the Palin, Beck, Bachman and their ilk. But for all that, they still need leadership. Also, they're adverse to the "System", and mistrustful of the Democrats as well as the Republicans. But unless they get people elected somehow (by themselves or by proxy supporters), they're not going to achieve much barring revolt, and that's not going to work.