Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wrong.

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Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wrong.

Post by His Divine Shadow »

I used to watch his physics lectures on youtube, I had no idea he was connected to global warming skepticism.

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c ... id=1745997
A prominent physicist and skeptic of global warming spent two years trying to find out if mainstream climate scientists were wrong. In the end, he determined they were right: Temperatures really are rising rapidly.

The study of the world’s surface temperatures by Richard Muller was partially bankrolled by a foundation connected to global warming deniers. He pursued long-held skeptic theories in analyzing the data. He was spurred to action because of “Climategate,” a British scandal involving hacked emails of scientists.

Yet he found that the land is 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit (1 degree Celsius) warmer than in the 1950s. Those numbers from Muller, who works at the University of California, Berkeley, and Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, match those by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA.

He said he went even further back, studying readings from Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. His ultimate finding of a warming world, to be presented at a conference Monday, is no different from what mainstream climate scientists have been saying for decades.

What’s different, and why everyone from opinion columnists to cable TV ‘s satirical”The Daily Show” is paying attention is who is behind the study.

One-quarter of the $600,000 to do the research came from the Charles Koch Foundation, whose founder is a major funder of skeptic groups and the conservative tea party movement. The Koch brothers, Charles and David, run a large privately held company involved in oil and other industries, producing sizable greenhouse gas emissions.

Muller’s research team carefully examined two chief criticisms by skeptics. One is that weather stations are unreliable; the other is that cities, which create heat islands, were skewing the temperature analysis.

“The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago,” Muller said in a telephone interview. “And now we have confidence that the temperature rise that had previously been reported had been done without bias.”

Muller said that he came into the study “with a proper skepticism,” something scientists “should always have. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that there was not enough skepticism” before.

There is no reason now to be a skeptic about steadily increasing temperatures, Muller wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal’s editorial pages, a place friendly to climate change skeptics. Muller did not address in his research the cause of global warming. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists say it’s man-made from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. Nor did his study look at ocean warming, future warming and how much of a threat to mankind climate change might be.

Still, Muller said it makes sense to reduce the carbon dioxide created by fossil fuels.

“Greenhouse gases could have a disastrous impact on the world,” he said. Still, he contends that threat is not as proven as the Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says it is.

On Monday, Muller was taking his results — four separate papers that are not yet published or peer-reviewed, but will be, he says — to a conference in Santa Fe, New Mexico, expected to include many prominent skeptics as well as mainstream scientists.

“Of course he’ll be welcome,” said Petr Chylek of Los Alamos National Lab, a noted skeptic and the conference organizer. “The purpose of our conference is to bring people with different views on climate together, so they can talk and clarify things.”

Shawn Lawrence Otto, author of the book “Fool Me Twice” that criticizes science skeptics, said Muller should expect to be harshly treated by global warming deniers. “Now he’s considered a traitor. For the skeptic community, this isn’t about data or fact. It’s about team sports. He’s been traded to the Indians. He’s playing for the wrong team now.”

And that started on Sunday, when a British newspaper said one of Muller’s co-authors, Georgia Tech climate scientist Judith Curry, accused Muller of another Climategate-like scandal and trying to “hide the decline” of recent global temperatures.

The Associated Press contacted Curry on Sunday afternoon and she said in an email that Muller and colleagues “are not hiding any data or otherwise engaging in any scientifically questionable practice.”

The Muller “results unambiguously show an increase in surface temperature since 1960,” Curry wrote Sunday. She said she disagreed with Muller’s public relations efforts and some public comments from Muller about there no longer being a need for skepticism.

Muller’s study found that skeptics’ concerns about poor weather station quality didn’t skew the results of his analysis because temperature increases rose similarly in reliable and unreliable weather stations. He also found that while there is an urban heat island effect making cities warmer, rural areas, which are more abundant, are warming, too.

Among many climate scientists, the reaction was somewhat of a yawn.

“After lots of work he found exactly what was already known and accepted in the climate community,” said Jerry North, a Texas A&M University atmospheric sciences professor who headed a National Academy of Sciences climate science review in 2006. “I am hoping their study will have a positive impact. But some folks will never change.”

Chris Field, a Carnegie Institution scientist who is chief author of an upcoming intergovernmental climate change report, said Muller’s study “may help the world’s citizens focus less on whether climate change is real and more on smart options for addressing it.”

Some of the most noted scientific skeptics are no longer saying the world isn’t warming. Instead, they question how much of it is man-made, view it as less a threat and argue it’s too expensive to do something about, Otto said.

Skeptical MIT scientist Richard Lindzen said it is a fact and nothing new that global average temperatures have been rising since 1950, as Muller shows. “It’s hard to see how any serious scientist (skeptical, denier or believer — frequently depending on the exact question) will view it otherwise,” he wrote in an email.

In a brief email statement, the Koch Foundation noted that Muller’s team didn’t examine ocean temperature or the cause of warming and said it will continue to fund such research. “The project is ongoing and entering peer review, and we’re proud to support this strong, transparent research,” said foundation spokeswoman Tonya Mullins.
I guess that's a big supporting block that's been knocked out from under the global warming deniers support.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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“The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago,” Muller said in a telephone interview. “And now we have confidence that the temperature rise that had previously been reported had been done without bias.”

Muller said that he came into the study “with a proper skepticism,” something scientists “should always have. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that there was not enough skepticism” before.
I like how he is trying to save face that he was wrong. Its the classic "I was wrong, but...".

Unless he means that people should be sceptical of any study if it wasn't done by themselves, in which case that opens up another can of worms.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by madd0ct0r »

got to give the guy credit that he's facing his results though.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Lord Zentei »

mr friendly guy wrote:
“The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago,” Muller said in a telephone interview. “And now we have confidence that the temperature rise that had previously been reported had been done without bias.”

Muller said that he came into the study “with a proper skepticism,” something scientists “should always have. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that there was not enough skepticism” before.
I like how he is trying to save face that he was wrong. Its the classic "I was wrong, but...".

Unless he means that people should be sceptical of any study if it wasn't done by themselves, in which case that opens up another can of worms.
That was my reaction too. For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, does he really think that climate scientists didn't do their work properly over the past few decades and only with the completion of his one study is it suddenly all made accurate and good?

Nonetheless, it's a good thing he published it anyway, and I would have liked to see the Koch brothers' reaction on hearing about it.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Gaidin »

Lord Zentei wrote: That was my reaction too. For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, does he really think that climate scientists didn't do their work properly over the past few decades and only with the completion of his one study is it suddenly all made accurate and good?
I doubt this would be the first time someone would be skeptical about a theory for which they thought the data was wonky for whatever reason(he goes into it here) even if that particular branch of scientists had accepted it for however long. Is this somehow special because of how politically charged global warming is? Though I do love the irony that his study is funded by entities like the Koch Foundation, I'm not really seeing anything special, scientifically. Somebody going "That's not right!" and then doing their own study only to find it was right, was general procedure(as much as showing said ideas as wrong) for science I thought?
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Lord Zentei »

That was not my point. My point was that his concession wasn't a concession at all, but an implied statement to the effect that he has sorted it all out and eliminated the justifications for skepticism, even though he confirmed the previous data exactly. He was saying "I wasn't wrong to be skeptical before. But now that I have identical results to the climate scientists, it's wrong to be skeptical now".
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Gaidin »

I don't think he should have a reason to concede anything. He wasn't wrong to be skeptical. It'd be different if he'd tried to dance his way out of the corner he "painted himself into" after doing a totally unique study based on extra data and methodologies that the other studies usually don't take into account, which by the way, showed it as worse in many portions of the results. But no, he's not doing a song and dance. He's basically just going "well, damn, that was wrong" and waiting for the paint to dry so he can walk out.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Lord Zentei »

Actually, yes he was wrong to be skeptical. That was kind of my point.

But another study re-confirming what was already shown to be true is always welcome.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Because skepticism is bad in science now? What?
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Lord Zentei wrote:That was my reaction too. For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, does he really think that climate scientists didn't do their work properly over the past few decades and only with the completion of his one study is it suddenly all made accurate and good?.
Oh, because masses are always rite... :roll:

For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, did Copernicus really think that astronomers didn't do their work properly over the past few hundred years and only his one study proved to be accurate and good?

Personally, I deeply respect Muller for a true scientist he is. He devoted two years to checking a theory and when he was proved to be wrong he just faced the results, admitted "defeat" and made it public.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Tolya wrote:Personally, I deeply respect Muller for a true scientist he is. He devoted two years to checking a theory and when he was proved to be wrong he just faced the results, admitted "defeat" and made it public.
And said that everyone who wasn't just as skeptical as him two years ago was wrong to have not been skeptical. Even though the scientific consensus among climate change scientists has been pretty much unanimous for much longer than that?

It has nothing to do with the "masses always being right". It's fucking peer review. It works, and that's why when climate change still hadn't been debunked after so long by actual climate scientists, nobody should be surprised that, hey, a fucking physicist can't debunk it either.

I suppose you'd also deeply respect a Creationist who ignored all the evidence supporting evolution and the massive scientific consensus until he'd done his own two year study as well and then declared "I was right to be skeptical, but now here's the evidence and you all must accept it". This is essentially the same fucking thing. :roll: The only thing to respect is that he was finally swayed by the evidence. Which is to say, he was capable of admiting that he was wrong. Even if it took him two years of doing shit hundreds of other better qualified scientists have already fucking done.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Lord Zentei »

Gaidin wrote:Because skepticism is bad in science now? What?
No, you idiot. But he said that he was right to be skeptical before, but that it's wrong (with implication, wrong for others) to be skeptical now.

Tolya wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:That was my reaction too. For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, does he really think that climate scientists didn't do their work properly over the past few decades and only with the completion of his one study is it suddenly all made accurate and good?.
Oh, because masses are always rite... :roll:

For all that it's good to be skeptical in science, did Copernicus really think that astronomers didn't do their work properly over the past few hundred years and only his one study proved to be accurate and good?

Personally, I deeply respect Muller for a true scientist he is. He devoted two years to checking a theory and when he was proved to be wrong he just faced the results, admitted "defeat" and made it public.
What the fuck is this? "masses are always right"? Strawman much?
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Destructionator XIII wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:I like how he is trying to save face that he was wrong. Its the classic "I was wrong, but...".
Skepticism is good in science.
Of course it is. Its his implication that climate scientist weren't sceptical enough that bugged me. It seemed like only he (and those who agreed with him by implication) could be sufficiently sceptical that they would do a proper job.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Lord Zentei wrote:
Gaidin wrote:Because skepticism is bad in science now? What?
No, you idiot. But he said that he was right to be skeptical before, but that it's wrong (with implication, wrong for others) to be skeptical now.
He doesn't say it's wrong. He's hardly going to spend two years in a skeptical study and then say skepticism is wrong. He explains why skepticism, in this case, is incorrect. And yes, given the connotation with which you're throwing the word 'wrong' around here, there's a difference. His editorial explains why he was skeptical of their data, the general process by which they got their data, and the fact that it lined up with the original claim he was skeptical of. Explaining why one shouldn't be skeptical is hardly the same as saying it's wrong.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Gaidin wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:
Gaidin wrote:Because skepticism is bad in science now? What?
No, you idiot. But he said that he was right to be skeptical before, but that it's wrong (with implication, wrong for others) to be skeptical now.
He doesn't say it's wrong. He's hardly going to spend two years in a skeptical study and then say skepticism is wrong. He explains why skepticism, in this case, is incorrect. And yes, given the connotation with which you're throwing the word 'wrong' around here, there's a difference. His editorial explains why he was skeptical of their data, the general process by which they got their data, and the fact that it lined up with the original claim he was skeptical of. Explaining why one shouldn't be skeptical is hardly the same as saying it's wrong.
The point you miss is that climate scientists have been double checking and peer reviewing their data for decades using numerous models and methodologies. Anyone can claim that it was right to be skeptical before because their own method wasn't used previously, but that it's wrong to be skeptical afterwards. Regardless, he deserves kudos for having changed his position, not that he could have done otherwise and remained credible.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

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Good to see that someone like him admits failure, and I'd think he can be allowed to avoid looking too stupid by saying stuff like "The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago".

It's a big thing to say for him after all, and I suspect he now will have to defend himself from all kinds of flame-mails and annoying morons that want to punish his "defection". That sentence (and his wonky reasoning) should allow any (commoner) former climate change denier to change his mind and come out relatively clean too.

Let's not forget that climate change deniers act more like followers of a religion. So this guy may form a "schism". :mrgreen:
And just as any religion, the goal is keeping true the TRUTH in the BOOK, so the goal posts get moved around as needed (as below).
Some of the most noted scientific skeptics are no longer saying the world isn’t warming. Instead, they question how much of it is man-made, view it as less a threat and argue it’s too expensive to do something about, Otto said.
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Re: Richard Muller (Global Warming skeptic) says he was wron

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

mr friendly guy wrote:
Destructionator XIII wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:I like how he is trying to save face that he was wrong. Its the classic "I was wrong, but...".
Skepticism is good in science.
Of course it is. Its his implication that climate scientist weren't sceptical enough that bugged me. It seemed like only he (and those who agreed with him by implication) could be sufficiently sceptical that they would do a proper job.

Actually, I think any arrogance is more a product of him being a physicist. They tend to view the rest of the sciences as more "fuzzy". I can only speculate as to what degree he is like that, but a LOT of physicists tend to have that outlook.
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