Ancient Olympic Museum robbed

[Crown]

Done way before the laws went into effect. Easy as that.

A more succinct example of using the letter of the law to defeat it's spirit I struggle to recall ... mainly because I'm tipsy on a nice red wine!

[Darmalus]

Done way before the laws went into effect. Easy as that.

A more succinct example of using the letter of the law to defeat it's spirit I struggle to recall ... mainly because I'm tipsy on a nice red wine!

I'm confused about what you are saying. I don't think it's possible to violate the letter or spirit of a law if the law doesn't exist.

[Crown]

Done way before the laws went into effect. Easy as that.

A more succinct example of using the letter of the law to defeat it's spirit I struggle to recall ... mainly because I'm tipsy on a nice red wine!

I'm confused about what you are saying. I don't think it's possible to violate the letter or spirit of a law if the law doesn't exist.

I'm suggesting that nations recognise that stealing another nations national treasures is wrong, unless you managed to steal them before a certain date.

[Thanas]

Yeah, but back then slavery was still legal. Values shift over time.

[Crown]

Yeah, but back then slavery was still legal. Values shift over time.

Fair point; the obvious response is that you can't 'free' now long dead slaves, but you sure as hell can return stolen national treasures regardless of the date they were stolen.

[Thanas]

Yeah, but back then slavery was still legal. Values shift over time.

Fair point; the obvious response is that you can't 'free' now long dead slaves, but you sure as hell can return stolen national treasures regardless of the date they were stolen.

You coud still compensate their descendants, maybe by levelling a post slavery tax on the Brits (after all, the biggest slave traders), Spanish and Americans and give that to the descendants. After all, the guys who the national treasures were stolen from are not alive anymore, are they? Maybe Britain, Spain and France can also pay the equivalent of what they robbed from the Indians and Africans, of course adjusted for modern value? I also heard there are some guys in Babylon who some Greek called Alexander ripped off. Clearly Greece should repay the modern equivalent of the entire Persian treasure, which after all was amassed by ripping off the Egyptians, levantines and other people long dead, who in turn ripped off....

Or we can recognize that all such moves are pretty pointless and one cannot force people who had such things over a hundred years to give such things back and try to move on.


But more seriously, I very much doubt anybody will be served by this and Egypt has pretty much proven itself to be unsuitable for the caring of such national artifacts.

[Crown]

You coud still compensate their descendants, maybe by levelling a post slavery tax on the Brits (after all, the biggest slave traders), Spanish and Americans and give that to the descendants. After all, the guys who the national treasures were stolen from are not alive anymore, are they? Maybe Britain, Spain and France can also pay the equivalent of what they robbed from the Indians and Africans, of course adjusted for modern value? I also heard there are some guys in Babylon who some Greek called Alexander ripped off. Clearly Greece should repay the modern equivalent of the entire Persian treasure, which after all was amassed by ripping off the Egyptians, levantines and other people long dead, who in turn ripped off....

None of which are on display in Greece at the moment though are they?

Or we can recognize that all such moves are pretty pointless and one cannot force people who had such things over a hundred years to give such things back and try to move on.

Why? It's clear to any person with a functioning brain that the Elgin Marbles do not belong in downtown London, send them back where they do belong. It's nothing other than the British Museum not wanting to lose one of their centerpiece attractions, and nothing else.

But more seriously, I very much doubt anybody will be served by this and Egypt has pretty much proven itself to be unsuitable for the caring of such national artifacts.

Patronising much? Buy such rationale you could argue aggressive intervention to remove any artifacts they have at the moment 'for their own good'.

For clarity's sake; I don't actually stay up at night pining for the Elgin Marbles to be returned (I'd be happy in they payed rent to 'lease them'), but the comment in this thread about 'international law and treaties protecting national treasures', just left this obvious and famous example to be discussed. So far you've hidden behind 'theft before a certain date isn't theft' moved on to 'Greece should reimburse Persia for stolen wealth from 2,500 years ago' while neatly side stepping the fact Greece doesn't have those on display every where, and if it did I would agree that they should be returned, and we finally end up to 'they can't look after them properly so we are doing them a favour'.

Get over yourself.

[Thanas]

You coud still compensate their descendants, maybe by levelling a post slavery tax on the Brits (after all, the biggest slave traders), Spanish and Americans and give that to the descendants. After all, the guys who the national treasures were stolen from are not alive anymore, are they? Maybe Britain, Spain and France can also pay the equivalent of what they robbed from the Indians and Africans, of course adjusted for modern value? I also heard there are some guys in Babylon who some Greek called Alexander ripped off. Clearly Greece should repay the modern equivalent of the entire Persian treasure, which after all was amassed by ripping off the Egyptians, levantines and other people long dead, who in turn ripped off....

None of which are on display in Greece at the moment though are they?

You did not really answer that thread at all, right? Are you in favor of the other things? Or for things that are on display - should Athens pay the other members of the Athenian league for the Akropolis? It is on display after all, provides tourist income to the city....

Why? It's clear to any person with a functioning brain that the Elgin Marbles do not belong in downtown London, send them back where they do belong. It's nothing other than the British Museum not wanting to lose one of their centerpiece attractions, and nothing else.

Greece is not even able to protect all its ancient archeological sites. They have far more pressing problems to attend there. Heck, there are plenty of Greek inscription stones that are used by farmers as doorsteps. How about campaigning for protecting these?

Patronising much? Buy such rationale you could argue aggressive intervention to remove any artifacts they have at the moment 'for their own good'.

Get over yourself. The archeological museum in Cairo was robbed during the recent revolution with many pieces missing. Egypt is unwilling to spend enough money to protect its sites. It also pretty much destroyed their credibility with regards to scholarship.

For clarity's sake; I don't actually stay up at night pining for the Elgin Marbles to be returned (I'd be happy in they payed rent to 'lease them'), but the comment in this thread about 'international law and treaties protecting national treasures', just left this obvious and famous example to be discussed.

No, it doesn't. This is a complete thread tangent as these things were taken over a century before the laws in question were enacted. Anybody with a functioning brain should know that laws are not applied ex post facto, especially not when the Government at that time wanted to sell.

[Crown]

You did not really answer that thread at all, right? Are you in favor of the other things? Or for things that are on display - should Athens pay the other members of the Athenian league for the Akropolis? It is on display after all, provides tourist income to the city....

Why would I engage you in an exercise in Reductio ad absurdum sweet lips? My position has been consistent throughout this thread, you seem to be incapable of reading what I actually write and continue to fumble into one un-interesting tangent after another like the expanding Russian front of old. Stop chasing your windmills and look at what I have written.

Greece is not even able to protect all its ancient archeological sites. They have far more pressing problems to attend there. Heck, there are plenty of Greek inscription stones that are used by farmers as doorsteps. How about campaigning for protecting these?

Reductio ad absurdum, again. Is your inability to discuss what my position is without trying to spin it to all kinds of ridiculous and unrelated tangents born out of some deep insecurity or inadequacy issues? I don't know, and I don't care.

Get over yourself. The archeological museum in Cairo was robbed during the recent revolution with many pieces missing. Egypt is unwilling to spend enough money to protect its sites. It also pretty much destroyed their credibility with regards to scholarship.

First of all; I own 'get over yourself' in this thread because I used it first, much like Steve Carell owns 'that's what she said'.

Now, moving on; not having anything to do what I'm talking about. There's a fucking trend here, you might pick it up in a minute or two.

No, it doesn't. This is a complete thread tangent as these things were taken over a century before the laws in question were enacted. Anybody with a functioning brain should know that laws are not applied ex post facto, especially not when the Government at that time wanted to sell.

Which is what I said;

A more succinct example of using the letter of the law to defeat it's spirit I struggle to recall ... mainly because I'm tipsy on a nice red wine!

Followed by;

I'm suggesting that nations recognise that stealing another nations national treasures is wrong, unless you managed to steal them before a certain date.

Which lead us to;

Fair point; the obvious response is that you can't 'free' now long dead slaves, but you sure as hell can return stolen national treasures regardless of the date they were stolen.

Which then led to your wild spinning, hand waving, strawman building, ridiculous having nothing to do with anything I've ever said post afterward, which led us to this exchange.

Tell me, oh wise one; where I have ever contradicted myself regarding the laws? I've just pointed out that calling certain action theft - except when it precedes a certain date; the epitome of using the letter of the law to defeat its spirit.

And do you really want to open the can of worms of using the Ottoman authorities permission to asset strip a nation, while simultaneously bringing up the Athens and the Athenian league in the same thread, and in the post preceding it talk about Alexander's proliferating of wealth from Persia?

Careful there chum; keep shifting those goalposts and you'll end up scoring at both ends.

But you're entertaining in your own inadequate way I suppose, so I might even read a reply.