Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Alert

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Rogue 11
Padawan Learner
Posts: 180
Joined: 2002-07-27 02:29pm
Location: Norway

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Rogue 11 »

Broomstick wrote:If they are guilty of an unjustified shooting felony charges can be brought against them. A felony conviction will not only bar them from any future law enforcement work, but also a lot of other career choices. This does happen to police officers from time to time, contrary to what some people think bad cops don't always walk free.

However, proper place to determine guilt or innocence is a court of law, not the media or public opinion.
I meant this in reference to them turning off the camera. Whether or not they were justified in the shooting the impression I got (Which I'm now aware isn't neccesarily correct. Didn't even know there were Taser cameras). It didn't matter whether or not they had reason to enter if they breached prochedure like that and made an obvious mess out of the whole situation.

That at least marks them as wholly unsuited for police work. Whether they actually committed a Felony and go to court over it is a seperate issue as far as I'm concerned.

If they turned off the cameras rather than not have any suitable on site or availible then they are either horrible screwups who can't be trusted with the job, or criminals who should go to jail. Either way they should not be allowed to continue as cops anywhere.

Looking around a bit I can't seem to find the battery life of the taser mounted cameras. Anyone have any idea what sort of how long it can be expected to run in the field?

If good enough to last the entire incident, whether or not it was prochedure (Since it's a fairly new tool I figure it may not have been added to their official prochedures yet) if the cops did everything above board they were pretty dumb if they didn't use it to document clearly that they were in the right.
User avatar
Agent Fisher
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 3671
Joined: 2003-04-29 11:56pm
Location: Sac-Town, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Universe

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Agent Fisher »

Taser camera, at least the ones we have at my work, run for about an hour continous, since they also go off the batteries that the taser uses. Memory is up to 4 hours. However, the camera only turns on when the weapon is taken off safe and turns off when it is put back on safe. So, cop flips to fire, tasers, safes and holsters, he's not even thinking about the camera, so I don't think there was anything malicious about that.
User avatar
SVPD
Jedi Master
Posts: 1277
Joined: 2005-05-05 10:07am
Location: Texas

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by SVPD »

Rogue 11 wrote: I meant this in reference to them turning off the camera. Whether or not they were justified in the shooting the impression I got (Which I'm now aware isn't neccesarily correct. Didn't even know there were Taser cameras). It didn't matter whether or not they had reason to enter if they breached prochedure like that and made an obvious mess out of the whole situation.

That at least marks them as wholly unsuited for police work. Whether they actually committed a Felony and go to court over it is a seperate issue as far as I'm concerned.

If they turned off the cameras rather than not have any suitable on site or availible then they are either horrible screwups who can't be trusted with the job, or criminals who should go to jail. Either way they should not be allowed to continue as cops anywhere.

Looking around a bit I can't seem to find the battery life of the taser mounted cameras. Anyone have any idea what sort of how long it can be expected to run in the field?

If good enough to last the entire incident, whether or not it was prochedure (Since it's a fairly new tool I figure it may not have been added to their official prochedures yet) if the cops did everything above board they were pretty dumb if they didn't use it to document clearly that they were in the right.
The purpose of a TASER is not to film an entire incident. Furthermore, turning a TASER off, even if it includes turning the TASER camera off, is not unreasonable nor inappropriate. Again, the TASER gets put away when you're done, you don't walk around using it to film what's going on.

Furthermore, if the department has not A) provided other cameras more suitable to long-term use and B) made it policy that they be on during dealings with citizens and C) provided adequate training, maintenance and supplies for their use, and I am not aware that very many departments have done any of these things other than in the case of cameras in the cruisers, then no, they are not "horrible screwups" nor "criminals". Mere lack of video documentation in a police encounter is not evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the police.
Shit like this is why I'm kind of glad it isn't legal to go around punching people in the crotch. You'd be able to track my movement from orbit from the sheer mass of idiots I'd leave lying on the ground clutching their privates in my wake. -- Mr. Coffee
User avatar
Rogue 11
Padawan Learner
Posts: 180
Joined: 2002-07-27 02:29pm
Location: Norway

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Rogue 11 »

SVPD wrote:The purpose of a TASER is not to film an entire incident. Furthermore, turning a TASER off, even if it includes turning the TASER camera off, is not unreasonable nor inappropriate. Again, the TASER gets put away when you're done, you don't walk around using it to film what's going on.

Furthermore, if the department has not A) provided other cameras more suitable to long-term use and B) made it policy that they be on during dealings with citizens and C) provided adequate training, maintenance and supplies for their use, and I am not aware that very many departments have done any of these things other than in the case of cameras in the cruisers, then no, they are not "horrible screwups" nor "criminals". Mere lack of video documentation in a police encounter is not evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the police.
I thought I already conceeded? Or at least it was implicit in what I said. When they said cameras were off I assumed they were talking a system I was familiar with (Like the cameras in police cruisers) rather than a system that I had no idea existed and has been adequately explained wasn't suitable. Which presumably explains why it got so little focus in the news report.

Still. Recording and documenting incidents like this properly would make life for the police much easier as far as regaining public faith goes. Provided they were acting in good faith of course. I applaud whoever came up with the Taser cams. And it wouldn't be amiss if they could mount devices like these on their regular firearms as well.
User avatar
Beowulf
The Patrician
Posts: 10621
Joined: 2002-07-04 01:18am
Location: 32ULV

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Beowulf »

It's, uh, not ready for prime time yet: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2012/0 ... ock-mount/
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
JointStrikeFighter
Worthless Trolling Palm-Fucker
Posts: 1979
Joined: 2004-06-12 03:09am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

It would be fucking trivial to make he taser automatically record, if not video, than sound, for 20 min after a trigger pull
User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7555
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

JointStrikeFighter wrote:It would be fucking trivial to make he taser automatically record, if not video, than sound, for 20 min after a trigger pull
Well, a recording device mounted on a TASER is meant to capture the use of the TASER and nothing more. Basically, it is to prevent abuse of the TASER and to show why the officer felt it was necessary to TASER. Why it may be trivial it doesn't make a whole lot of sense because it does what it is intended to do when the taser is turned on.

The bottom line is that it wasn't designed to record that way. It seems like some just want to grasp at straws over this issue. Sorry but it's done. The police did not behave inappropriately on this issue when they shut it off.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Simon_Jester »

If by "shut it off" all they did was "holster the taser," then yes, it is not inappropriate to put away a taser.

Although incidents like this mean that I would not be averse to having police wear some other audio recording device or something when engaged in high-profile activities like bashing into someone's house...
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Yogi
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2163
Joined: 2002-08-22 03:53pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Yogi »

lohud.com wrote:WHITE PLAINS — The family of Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. said it would ask for a federal criminal investigation in the wake of a Westchester County grand jury’s decision not to indict White Plains police officers in Chamberlain’s shooting death.

Attorneys for the dead man’s family called the grand jury’s decision – first reported by The Journal News on LoHud.com – “extremely troubling,” and released a statement from his son that vowed: “There will be justice for Kenneth Chamberlain Sr.”

“My family and I are profoundly saddened at the fact that there was no criminal indictment in the murder of my father,” Kenneth Chamberlain Jr. said in the statement released Thursday.

“A full and fair investigation was promised by the D.A., but I have to question what evidence was presented to the grand jury,” the statement said. “As I have stated before it is hard to put trust in a system that I feel has failed me already and that no indictment sends a very strong message to the people of Westchester County regarding police misconduct, brutality and criminality.”

Chamberlain, 68, was killed at the end of an hour-long standoff with officers who were dispatched to his 135 S. Lexington Ave. apartment shortly after 5 a.m. on Nov. 19, when his medical alert device went off, apparently by accident. Family members said officers insisted on coming inside even after Chamberlain, who had a chronic heart condition, told them he was fine and there was no emergency.

The stand-off ended with Chamberlain being fatally shot by Police Officer Anthony Carelli, who said Chamberlain was lunging at White Plains Police Sgt. Keith Martin with a knife.

Westchester County District Attorney Janet DiFiore said the grand jury’s review of the case was “exhaustive,” and included more than 100 pieces of evidence and 42 witnesses, including Chamberlain family members and Carelli, who testified without immunity from prosecution.

“After due deliberation on the evidence presented in this matter the grand jury found that there was no reasonable cause to vote an indictment,” DiFiore said at a news briefing Thursday.

She called the case “a tragedy on many levels,” and said she had received assurances from White Plains police and city officials that the department “will be ordering a top to bottom review of the procedures and training regarding the use of force with respect to emotionally disturbed persons” – a review DiFiore said will be monitored by her office.

Nonetheless, Andrew Quinn, Carelli’s attorney, said he was satisfied that the District Attorney’s Office presentation to the grand jury was “fair and unbiased.”

He said Chamberlain spent the last 30 seconds of his life yelling, “shoot me, shoot me.” Even then, he said, Carelli hesitated until Chamberlain was within three feet of White Plains Police Sgt. Keith Martin, charging at him with a raised knife.

“We believe the evidence confirming Officer Carelli’s actions were justified was overwhelming,” Quinn said. “While it’s always tragic when a civilian loses his life, Officer Carelli’s actions in this matter were clearly justified.”

“As Officer Carelli has told us, while he deeply regrets Mr. Chamberlain’s death, he doesn’t regret his decision because he believes his decision saved Sgt. Martin’s life.”

White Plains Public Safety Commissioner David Chong added that he was “confident that they were presented with a factual and complete investigation by the district attorney.”

Police said Chamberlain was “emotionally disturbed” and screamed at the officers. They said officers feared that someone else might have been in the apartment and in danger. And autopsy later revealed that Chamberlain had been drinking.

Despite being shot with a stun gun and bean bags, police said, Chamberlain kept coming at them and was killed when Carelli fired a shot that went through Chamberlain’s arm and into his chest as he was about to stab an officer. Chamberlain died at White Plains Hospital two hours later.

Chong, the commissioner, said a few hours after the shooting that Chamberlain attacked officers with a hatchet and a knife and ignored orders to drop his weapons. He said the shooting appeared to have been justified and within department guidelines.

But Chamberlain family members, who were shown video and audio of the incident by the Westchester County District Attorney’s Office, said police taunted and used slurs against Chamberlain in a standoff that escalated until police broke down his door.

They said the video shows Chamberlain was unarmed, standing several feet from the door, with his hands at his sides. Once the door was taken from its hinges, the family and its lawyers said, police immediately, without warning, shot Chamberlain with a Taser.

The family has also said the medical examiner’s autopsy report’s description of the path of the bullet shows that he could not have been raising his arm to stab an officer when he was shot. Chamberlain family lawyers Randolph McLaughlin and Mayo Bartlett have notified the city of their intention to file a civil lawsuit in the case.

At a midday press conference outside the Westchester County Courthouse on Thursday, both attorneys lambasted the decision not to indict the officers, saying the only weapons Chamberlain could’ve had when he was shot were “common kitchen utensils.”

“The suggestion that they were defending themselves is not significant because they created the situation” by not leaving the apartment when Chamberlain expressed he was fine,” Bartlett said. “At no point did Mr. Chamberlain leave his apartment and attack anyone.”

McLaughlin, who learned of the grand jury decision while he was a guest on Journal News columnist Phil Reisman’s radio show, added that family members “believe there is a pattern and practice in White Plains that needs federal oversight.”

Herb Hadad, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office, said Thursday that the office had no comment on the Chamberlain case or the Westchester grand jury’s decision.

Carelli is also among several officers who are defendants in a police brutality lawsuit in U.S. District Court in White Plains, which includes claims that he used racial slurs. Officer Steven Hart, who McLaughlin said shouted racial slurs at Chamberlain, is also a defendant in a federal brutality suit brought by a man who claims he was slammed to the ground during a 2010 arrest.

Both officers have denied the allegations.

On Thursday, DiFiore said a police officer did use a racial slur while trying to distract Chamberlain. She called it “offensive to the dignity of any one of us, to all of us.”

City PBA President Robert Riley said after the grand jury vote that “we mourn the tragic death of Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. Every police officer’s worst nightmare is to be forced to take a life.”

But Riley also said he was troubled that evidence in the case had been released to Chamberlain family attorneys. He called the lawyers’ decision to make the evidence public “intentional, irresponsible and unethical,” and said doing so “put the lives of our officers and our community at risk.”

“We would call upon the District Attorney’s Office to re-evaluate the decision to allow the Chamberlain family attorneys access to evidence, after those attorneys, in our opinion, repeatedly demonstrated an utter disregard for the truth and recklessly inflamed this tragic incident,” he said.

Staff writer Jonathan Bandler contributed to this report.
Well, I wonder if there's anyone that's remotely surprised by this.

The article has links to the audio clips so you can listen to see if what the police said actually happened.
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!

-- Vaarsuvius, from Order of the Stick
User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7555
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Police shoot black man after responding to his Life Aler

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Yogi wrote: Well, I wonder if there's anyone that's remotely surprised by this.

The article has links to the audio clips so you can listen to see if what the police said actually happened.
What about the article do you find unsurprising?

FYI - The police reports are also available for review.

According to the police reports the police were concerned that someone else might be inside the house because Chamberlain sounded like he was talking to someone eldr and due to his loud disruptive and incoherent behavior felt they needed to clear the house. The introduction of the knife through the door only escalated the situation.

The full recording is 40+ minutes long. I wasn't able to listen to all of it.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
Post Reply