Get Shot in Head, Get Ship Named After You!

[Simon_Jester]

What I mean, HMS, is that you may not really grasp the perceived significance of various events and people to Americans, which is what really matters when you're talking about American ship names. There are cultural reasons why Theodore Roosevelt would seem like a good man to name a warship for. He fought bravely, served his country in many useful and valuable ways, and did a good deal personally to build up the US's strategic position (whether you know about it or not), including its navy in particular. He wasn't a superhero, but it makes more sense to name a battleship after him than after, say, King George V.

[Captain Seafort]

idk if people today really view Charles I as the "good guy".

True, but it isn't necessary to view Charles as a good guy to recognise that Cromwell was far worse.

I certainly wouldn't view Cromwell as a secessionist or a traitor.

Secessionist, no. Traitor? He's pretty much the dictionary definition.

He is comparable to George Washington more than any of those.

Washington is, likewise, pretty much the dictionary definition of "traitor". He is, however, a much less obnoxious character than Cromwell, due to a) not being guilty of regicide and b) not establishing a military dictatorship.

The reason Cromwell isn't a good idea to name a ship after is because he killed a lot of British people, regardless whether he was right or wrong. The same is true for Lincoln.

If killing a lot of their own countrymen is a reason to exclude someone from having a ship named after them then you might as well exclude any individual. I'm happy to settle for them being a net benefit to their country.

Cromwell ended monarchical absolutism

Don't be ridiculous. Cromwell's dictatorship had little long-term political effect, and Charles II was back and up to his father's old tricks within a decade or so of Cromwell's death.

[Simon_Jester]

When we talk about Cromwell-as-traitor, I think it's worth clarifying what he was a traitor to, and when. When the English Civil War kicked off, was he betraying the king, or was he loyal to Parliament?

[Thanas]

Aside from being pretty cool, what exactly did Teddy Roosevelt do?

Great White Fleet, one of the watershed moments of USN history. Also assistant secretary of the Navy.

Also he committed quite a few war crimes, including some of the worst excesses of US colonialism.

[Captain Seafort]

I think it's worth clarifying what he was a traitor to, and when.

To the King, of course, as the embodiment of the state - the Treason Act has never said anything about Parliament.

[Sea Skimmer]

I'm pretty sure the RN did have an HMS Cromwell in the Second World War, for the record. Maybe it wasn't named after the man... but I kind of doubt it wasn't.

[That NOS Guy]

Also he committed quite a few war crimes, including some of the worst excesses of US colonialism.

Indeed, and this bears relevance to his contributions to the Navy in what way?

[Captain Seafort]

I'm pretty sure the RN did have an HMS Cromwell in the Second World War, for the record. Maybe it wasn't named after the man... but I kind of doubt it wasn't.

There was a USS Cromwell (not named for Ollie), and a Cromwell tank, but no HMS Cromwell.

EDIT: Having said that, some rummaging around turns out that there was, but she was never commissioned - transferred to Norway on completion as the Bergen.

[Sea Skimmer]

http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/12636.html

An HMS Cromwell did indeed exist; if it was named for the guy or not I still have no idea but its not unheard of to name a ship after a man without using the whole name.

[CarsonPalmer]

I'm pretty sure the RN did have an HMS Cromwell in the Second World War, for the record. Maybe it wasn't named after the man... but I kind of doubt it wasn't.

There was a USS Cromwell (not named for Ollie), and a Cromwell tank, but no HMS Cromwell.

EDIT: Having said that, some rummaging around turns out that there was, but she was never commissioned - transferred to Norway on completion as the Bergen.

Churchill wanted to name a ship Cromwell when he was First Sea Lord the first time around, but the King blocked it because he wasn't going to name a ship after a man who beheaded a royal predecessor.

Churchill then suggested Pitt, but the King (who had been a sailor in the RN in some capacity years before) rejected that because of what the sailors would inevitably nickname it.

This comes from Robert Massie, but I can't remember if it was in Castles of Steel or Dreadnought.

[SVPD]

It was in Castles of Steel, but I can't find the exact quote at the moment.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I nominate the USS Phineas Gage as long past due....