NYPD are racist as all fuck

[Kamakazie Sith]

I'm sure what you said applies to "acceptable looking" white persons. If you happen to be Hispanic and on leave from serving in Iraq, don't jog on public roads and happen to pass your old high school while the parking lot is empty (because it's the middle of Summer). As my friend found out, being Mexican in public is an excuse to be searched and patted down, even after showing a valid military ID.

I don't buy into all the white guilt stuff, but I still laugh in a pathetic way when I remember the conversation. I told him he should "call X," "get a lawyer," "sue that racist fuck."

"You're white dude, you don't understand. Just let it go, I did."

As far as I'm concerned it applies to everyone. What was the reason the officer gave your friend?

I'm not Ron Jeremy, but this cop managed to get a pretty good feel of what I have to offer. Since this was in 2000, I didn't even get the benefit of the backside of his hand bullshit the TSA uses in their effort to convince us we aren't being molested. I got full on "man grabbed my dick." I'm sure the experience wasn't pleasant for either of us, but I drew the short straw. What justified our entire senior class getting molested? They wanted to enforce the school ban on cell phones on campus......

Where did you go to school? Also, why are we discussing school frisks in a police related thread? Did the police come in and demand that people be frisked?

[TheFeniX]

As far as I'm concerned it applies to everyone. What was the reason the officer gave your friend?

He was jogging in front (not actually on the property) of a high school (in fact, the same one we both attended) while wearing a backpack (which contained his ipod he was listening to, his ID, and other amenities like water to drink). Basically, some bullshit about a bomb threat. This was in the middle of summer mind you.

Where did you go to school? Also, why are we discussing school frisks in a police related thread? Did the police come in and demand that people be frisked?

It's in reference to this quote, which brings up two big issues I have:

Well, I'm not defending the disproportionately high number of stops of minorities, or anything. But the frisking is pretty much an automatic response.
:: snip::
so I'm not getting too bent out of shape over that aspect.

Getting frisked is a big deal, at least it was for me. It's fucking degrading as all Hell, especially if you haven't done anything to deserve it. You're standing their with your arms out while someone you don't know starts violating your personal space by pawing at you for what seems like an eternity. It doesn't make it any better knowing that everyone else is going through the same thing. In fact, it makes it fucking that much worse. I don't like being treated like a criminal because I am at a particular place at a given time. That pat-downs, searches, frisking, whatever is viewed as an "automatic response" is a major issue for me. It also relates to the absolute horseshit authorities (even school administrators who basically own kids while they're on campus) will push on people if given the chance. Because! CELL PHONES! DOOR BELL RINGING! OH GOD!

[Agent Fisher]

No, I have never been searched in a real world situation, I have, multiple times, been used as a training aid in classes for how to conduct weapon searches on individuals.

And allow me to clarify what I meant on the assume everyone is armed, and my comments on frisking being automatic. When I say I assume everyone is armed, that is to ensure I am in a cautious mind set, to be on guard in case the simple contact I'm having with the guy I'm trying to get to leave my property turns violent.

Now, what you're describing Fenix sounds like searches on students in schools. I've never done those, or been subject to them, so I have no way of saying if that would be a big deal or not. As I've never been on the receiving end out in the real world, I honestly can't say if it would be a big deal.

Oh and the thing with your friend, if there was a bomb threat made against the school, and the police were doing searches for it, which they have to, then yeah, someone with a backpack near a school, in the summer, might warrant a check.

[Kamakazie Sith]

He was jogging in front (not actually on the property) of a high school (in fact, the same one we both attended) while wearing a backpack (which contained his ipod he was listening to, his ID, and other amenities like water to drink). Basically, some bullshit about a bomb threat. This was in the middle of summer mind you.

There's such a thing as year around school, summer school, and other functions that take place at schools. Even if the school was not unoccupied they still have to take a bomb threat seriously. I'm not saying they were in the right though. Other questions come to mind. Was he searched without his consent? Was it a investigative stop or just a level one stop, which is a police officer coming up and talking to you but you're free to leave at any time.

Also, you say he was patted down. How the hell did they expect to find a bomb doing a pat down search?

Getting frisked is a big deal, at least it was for me. It's fucking degrading as all Hell, especially if you haven't done anything to deserve it. You're standing their with your arms out while someone you don't know starts violating your personal space by pawing at you for what seems like an eternity. It doesn't make it any better knowing that everyone else is going through the same thing. In fact, it makes it fucking that much worse. I don't like being treated like a criminal because I am at a particular place at a given time. That pat-downs, searches, frisking, whatever is viewed as an "automatic response" is a major issue for me. It also relates to the absolute horseshit authorities (even school administrators who basically own kids while they're on campus) will push on people if given the chance. Because! CELL PHONES! DOOR BELL RINGING! OH GOD!

A frisk is a type of search but you can't go into pockets and you can't go into bags. . It is simply a pat down of the persons clothing and must be based upon articulable facts that the person could be armed and dangerous. For example, if there was a bomb threat and for some reason the caller described your friend then that would have been enough for a stop.

Anyway. What school did you go to?

[TheFeniX]

There's such a thing as year around school, summer school, and other functions that take place at schools. Even if the school was not unoccupied they still have to take a bomb threat seriously. I'm not saying they were in the right though. Other questions come to mind. Was he searched without his consent? Was it a investigative stop or just a level one stop, which is a police officer coming up and talking to you but you're free to leave at any time.

Ok, full story because my "bomb threat" comment was misleading:
Friend on leave from Iraq is jogging his route in his workout clothes and a backpack, this route takes him by a high school with an empty parking lot.
Cops pulls over and asks friend for ID.
Friend gives military ID.
Cop runs background check: everything looks good.
Says "I'd still like to search you."
Friend says: "Is that really needed?"
Cop says something to the effect of: "In this day and age, we're suspicious of anyone jogging with backpacks in front of a school."
NOTE: this is hilarious on two notes as STUDENTS USUALLY HAVE BACKPACKS and the cop mentioned a reference to 9/11 (as to why they are so worried about security) to an active military serviceman.
Cops searches backpack and my friend's person (no pockets in his workout clothes, so just grabs him in different places), finds nothing, and leaves.

There was no actual bomb threat, at least none that was articulated by the cop. My friend was stopped because "Backpack + empty school = TERRORISM!" Could my friend be lying? Yea. But I believe his story. I also believe that, even though the cop basically talked him into the search (he said he finally agreed just to get things over with and he figured the cop would find probable cause anyway), it still should have been an illegal search.

Also, you say he was patted down. How the hell did they expect to find a bomb doing a pat down search?

I think it's obvious which is why I brought it up in a thread about inherent racism/corruption: he wasn't looking for a bomb, he was hassling a decent person because, at least in Texas, County Cops are fucking worthless.

A frisk is a type of search but you can't go into pockets and you can't go into bags. . It is simply a pat down of the persons clothing and must be based upon articulable facts that the person could be armed and dangerous. For example, if there was a bomb threat and for some reason the caller described your friend then that would have been enough for a stop.

Can we not nitpick this: whatever you want to call it, I was basically grouped by a police officer. It. Was. Humiliating. I find it pretty offensive that a major invasion of someone's privacy and personal space could be anything related to the word "standard." That's my point, that searches actually are a big deal unless you like having strangers touching you. They should be taken very seriously when a legitimate threat exists or the possibility does. They should not be "standard" because of "LOL CELL PHONES" or "DOOR BELL RINGING! OMG!" It doesn't matter that it was a school search or that said school had the right to conduct the searches (or deny your graduation if you refuse). The point is that it's A. a big deal and B. fucking retarded that it is allowed, either by a school or NYPD.

To this day, I would do everything outside of violence or resisting arrest to avoid being searched.

Anyway. What school did you go to?

Is it really relevant? Predominately Hispanic school, which had some hilarious issues pop up when they tried to transfer all the white kids to the new school further north. Ah... LCISD... what a shithole. To further derail this thread, how were you leaning? That I was out in the sticks or something like Houston/Austin/Dallas?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not pointing at you guys and saying "BAD COPS! BAD!" I'm sure you look for excuses not to fuck with people rather than looking for every excuse to make their lives miserable. My problem is the fuck-sticks who can hide behind bullshit like "procedure." I don't have the luxury of searching everyone who comes through my front door (even though we aren't a service industry) and the only people who come to our office are from Ozarka, UPS, or are asking for money. Why the fuck do cops feel they have search rights to anyone on public (and some private) property? Probably because no one calls them out due to fear.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ok, full story because my "bomb threat" comment was misleading:
Friend on leave from Iraq is jogging his route in his workout clothes and a backpack, this route takes him by a high school with an empty parking lot.
Cops pulls over and asks friend for ID.
Friend gives military ID.
Cop runs background check: everything looks good.
Says "I'd still like to search you."
Friend says: "Is that really needed?"
Cop says something to the effect of: "In this day and age, we're suspicious of anyone jogging with backpacks in front of a school."
NOTE: this is hilarious on two notes as STUDENTS USUALLY HAVE BACKPACKS and the cop mentioned a reference to 9/11 (as to why they are so worried about security) to an active military serviceman.
Cops searches backpack and my friend's person (no pockets in his workout clothes, so just grabs him in different places), finds nothing, and leaves.

There was no actual bomb threat, at least none that was articulated by the cop. My friend was stopped because "Backpack + empty school = TERRORISM!" Could my friend be lying? Yea. But I believe his story. I also believe that, even though the cop basically talked him into the search (he said he finally agreed just to get things over with and he figured the cop would find probable cause anyway), it still should have been an illegal search.

Fair enough.

Can we not nitpick this: whatever you want to call it, I was basically grouped by a police officer. It. Was. Humiliating. I find it pretty offensive that a major invasion of someone's privacy and personal space could be anything related to the word "standard." That's my point, that searches actually are a big deal unless you like having strangers touching you. They should be taken very seriously when a legitimate threat exists or the possibility does. They should not be "standard" because of "LOL CELL PHONES" or "DOOR BELL RINGING! OMG!" It doesn't matter that it was a school search or that said school had the right to conduct the searches (or deny your graduation if you refuse). The point is that it's A. a big deal and B. fucking retarded that it is allowed, either by a school or NYPD.

To this day, I would do everything outside of violence or resisting arrest to avoid being searched.

Sorry, I should have acknowledged your position. Yeah, I can understand your feelings. My post was more for FYI then trying to nitpick you.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not pointing at you guys and saying "BAD COPS! BAD!" I'm sure you look for excuses not to fuck with people rather than looking for every excuse to make their lives miserable. My problem is the fuck-sticks who can hide behind bullshit like "procedure." I don't have the luxury of searching everyone who comes through my front door (even though we aren't a service industry) and the only people who come to our office are from Ozarka, UPS, or are asking for money. Why the fuck do cops feel they have search rights to anyone on public (and some private) property? Probably because no one calls them out due to fear.

Well, police will use psychological tactics to obtain consent to search. There are some good videos online on how to assert your rights even in the face of unlawful search/seizure. If I was your friend I would have told him no. When he came back with that "in todays world blah blah" I would have said "well, in todays world we still have rights and my final answer is no."

[Keevan_Colton]

Kamikazee, werent you saying in another thread about how the reason the tea party doesn't get the shit kicked out of it is because they do what the police tells them whether it's legal or not?

Just wondering how to reconcile the two ideas...

[Kamakazie Sith]

Kamikazee, werent you saying in another thread about how the reason the tea party doesn't get the shit kicked out of it is because they do what the police tells them whether it's legal or not?

Just wondering how to reconcile the two ideas...

If the police are going to search your bag then they won't ask you. If they ask you say no. If they do so anyway, don't interfer. I'd make it clear that you have not given your consent and that they are searching your person/property illegally. Most police won't ask you a damn thing if they have probable cause for a search. Also, a corrupt cop isn't going to ask you for your permission. Just read the anecdotal story that DA posted. Not once was this person asked to give consent. I bolded the relevant parts.

A smaller issue is that the Occupy movement and the police response to that movement is a lot more complicated than being asked to give consent. A search without consent, probable cause, or a warrant is illegal. The police response to the Occupy movement isn't anywhere near is black and white.

Last May, I was outside my apartment building on my way to the store when two police officers jumped out of an unmarked car and told me to stop and put my hands up against the wall. I complied. Without my permission, they removed my cellphone from my hand, and one of the officers reached into my pockets, and removed my wallet and keys. He looked through my wallet, then handcuffed me. The officers wanted to know if I had just come out of a particular building. No, I told them, I lived next door.

One of the officers asked which of the keys they had removed from my pocket opened my apartment door. Then he entered my building and tried to get into my apartment with my key. My 18-year-old sister was inside with two of our younger siblings; later she told me she had no idea why the police were trying to get into our apartment and was terrified. She tried to call me, but because they had confiscated my phone, I couldn’t answer.

Meanwhile, a white officer put me in the back of the police car. I was still handcuffed. The officer asked if I had any marijuana, and I said no. He removed and searched my shoes and patted down my socks. I asked why they were searching me, and he told me someone in my building complained that a person they believed fit my description had been ringing their bell. After the other officer returned from inside my apartment building, they opened the door to the police car, told me to get out, removed the handcuffs and simply drove off. I was deeply shaken.

For young people in my neighborhood, getting stopped and frisked is a rite of passage. We expect the police to jump us at any moment. We know the rules: don’t run and don’t try to explain, because speaking up for yourself might get you arrested or worse. And we all feel the same way — degraded, harassed, violated and criminalized because we’re black or Latino.

Note that he did not claim any assault or injury.

[TheFeniX]

Well, police will use psychological tactics to obtain consent to search. There are some good videos online on how to assert your rights even in the face of unlawful search/seizure. If I was your friend I would have told him no. When he came back with that "in todays world blah blah" I would have said "well, in todays world we still have rights and my final answer is no."

We're going back to my original post: the cop had every advantage. I told my friend to keep saying "no," and to "do X." But the he still had to jog another few miles in 100F Texas summer heat while the cop could jump right back into A/C and ride off into the sunset. My friend also operated under the notion that as a Mexican, well it didn't really matter what his rights were. The perception exists and, at least around here, cops don't do much to dissuade that perception.

This leads me into another off-topic rant: Out of a cop and private citizen, who has benefit of legal training? Where do they teach us this? Primary school? No. College? Yes, if you want to pay $500 for a criminal justice class, which I couldn't get into at WCJC because I wasn't in the "Law Enforcement" degree plan, and they were full up and future cops get first dibs, for good reason. Can an automechanic screw me because I can't rebuild a motor? Does my surgeon train me and expect me to understand medical jargon before I go under, otherwise he cuts my arm off? No. Laws exist to protect me from people with more knowledge taking advantage of me (or at least they should).

Why can cops act like used car salesmen and call it "procedure?" They can lie and strong arm all day under "standard practice" and hide behind the union, judges, and prosecutors to protect them. They make laws like the one in New York that lets them just throw out a casting net trolling for something good. Why do they do this? For their safety in a job that isn't all that dangerous (traffic accidents aside)? Fine, just don't demand respect from anyone because you aren't getting it. Texas is better than most states at finding statues and new laws, but why the fuck do I have to dig through hundreds of pages of legalese to find out if I can walk down the street without having someone paw at my junk?

NOTE: I'm not talking about actual suspects of violent crimes, or cops acting with warrants, or good verifiable information leading to a detention. I'm talking about "walking down the street and not dressing/being groomed how X feels you should" being an excuse for cops to walk all over you. And that's not always just a race thing. My brother is literally me +10 years, but he was also fan of heavy metal and dressed accordingly when he was younger. He got fucked with by cops constantly yet has nothing more than a few misdemeanor traffic violations. All that police time wasted on a guy who "just didn't look right" and nothing to show for it. But hey, at least he hates cops with a passion, so they accomplished something.