Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

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weemadando
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Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by weemadando »

Fun game time everyone.

First, read this article.
Vancouver Sun wrote:Tribunal tramples on private property rights


BY CHRIS SCHAFER, VANCOUVER SUN JULY 31, 2012



Chalk up another victory for the "human rights" industry, where hurt feelings almost always trump real rights and freedoms. In a recent case decided by the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal, the rights and freedoms sacrificed at the altar of the tribunal included the private property rights and freedom of contract of a retired couple who own and operate a bed and breakfast.

In this case, the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal ruled Les and Susan Molnar, a retired couple with strong religious convictions, discriminated against two gay men by cancelling their telephone reservation for a room with a single bed at their bed and breakfast.

Finding that the B&B was separate from the Molnars' personal living space and run like a commercial business and not a church, the tribunal held that the Molnars were required to comply with the law of the province which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Regardless of their sincere and deeply held religious beliefs, the Mol-nars were ordered to pay the gay couple more than $4,500 in damages, travel expenses and lost wages to attend the tribunal hearing. No doubt the gay couple was angry about being denied a reservation; no doubt their feelings were hurt.

However, my reaction - had I been in their shoes - would have been relief that the Molnars had "outed" themselves so I wouldn't have to spend a night under their roof, or pay them any of my hard-earned money. I would have wanted to boycott them just as much as they wanted to avoid me.

Nevertheless, it's troubling that the Molnars should lose their sovereignty over their property by the simple act of inviting paying guests into their home.

If they hold a dinner party, they are free to exclude people on whatever discriminatory grounds they choose. Why should accepting money for the use of the room change that?

The Molnars have no legal obligation to provide B&B services to straight couples.

They can shut the business down entirely if they wish - as indeed they have, owing to this controversy. But then why should they have any legal obligation to provide services to gay couples?

When the law imposes such an obligation, it is tantamount to giving certain favoured groups of people (in this case, gays) a right to temporarily expropriate the Molnars' property against their will.

It is the presence of robust competition, not the existence of so-called human rights laws, that ensures that minorities will have access to services. Business owners may have prejudices galore - but indulging those prejudices costs money.

If the Molnars won't rent to gays, somebody else will.

In fact, there are already businesses who have caught on to the idea that the gay community is an economic force to be wooed.

Gay travel operators rent out entire cruise ships for all-gay cruises to the Caribbean and other choice destinations.

In the end, the reality is that the knife cuts both ways.

What would a gay-or lesbian-owned B&B that caters exclusively to gay patrons do if a devout religious per-son wanted to book a room at their establishment?

What if they wanted to share the teachings of their Bible that homosexuality is a sin with other gay patrons? What if this made the gay patrons, not to mention the gay B&B owners, uncomfortable?

Under current B.C. law, the B&B owners would have to reserve a room to the religious customer and if the tribunal values consistency at all, they'd have to find for discrimination on religious grounds if a room were denied to this religious customer. I see a future human rights tribunal case in the making.

Chris Schafer is the executive director of the Canadian Constitution Foundation. http://www.theCCF.ca

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
Second, read it again, but replace "gay"/"lesbian" with "black"/"jewish". Would this article ever have been solicited by the paper, let alone made it past editing, legal and been published.

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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Zaune »

weemadando wrote:Would this article ever have been solicited by the paper, let alone made it past editing, legal and been published.
Not for lack of wishing they could get away with it, I expect.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Broomstick »

The difference between a B&B and a private dinner party is that the private dinner party is just that, private, and a B&B is a business.

Of course, it's in Canada so the rules are slightly different than my country, but we decided back in the 1960's that discriminating in what are called "public accommodations" is wrong. At present, the law doesn't specify gays but businesses are leery of denying service to people regardless of the owners' personal belief. One of the key distinctions between business and private is the exchange of money, which clearly occurred in the the case in the OP
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Hillary »

Vancouver Sun wrote:
What would a gay-or lesbian-owned B&B that caters exclusively to gay patrons do if a devout religious per-son wanted to book a room at their establishment?

What if they wanted to share the teachings of their Bible that homosexuality is a sin with other gay patrons? What if this made the gay patrons, not to mention the gay B&B owners, uncomfortable?
I love this bit - they are equating a gay couple simply staying in a B&B as being the equivalent of a couple of bible bashers telling a bunch of gay people they are going to hell.

It's so typical of the religious mentality - simply being openly gay is seen as being provocative and pushing the "gay agenda".

The answers to his questions are that

a) the vast majority of gay B&Bs would take a booking from a straight couple.

b) the straight couple would be told firmly not to annoy the other residents and would be booted out if they continued in exactly the same way as a gay couple would be told if they went around upsetting the other residents

c) the law does not allow bigotry but does allow a business to eject unreasonable customers from its premises.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by General Zod »

I guess the B&B's hurt feelings trumps real rights in the article author's mind.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Aaron MkII »

Zaune wrote:
weemadando wrote:Would this article ever have been solicited by the paper, let alone made it past editing, legal and been published.
Not for lack of wishing they could get away with it, I expect.
Unless the Vancouver Sun has changed significantly since I last read it then no, it wouldn't have been accepted. The Sun is a shitty rag but they know the limits.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

When the law imposes such an obligation, it is tantamount to giving certain favoured groups of people (in this case, gays) a right to temporarily expropriate the Molnars' property against their will.
Yup, gays certainly are the favored people. How dare they try to oppress us white Christians?!
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
When the law imposes such an obligation, it is tantamount to giving certain favoured groups of people (in this case, gays) a right to temporarily expropriate the Molnars' property against their will.
Yup, gays certainly are the favored people. How dare they try to oppress us white Christians?!
It is worth noting:

Race--irrespective of what race it is
Religion--Does not matter which one
Sexual orientation--See above

These are all protected classes. Being gay is not favored. Had a gay business owner put up a sign on his B&B that said "No Breeders" the same thing would have happened to him. However, this just does not happen with anywhere near the frequency that the opposite occurs.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Blayne »

I find the implicit economic appeal to libertarianism interesting. I'm not sure if the editor outs and says it but he seemed to be saying "Hey, they shouldn't have to serve them and the couple can just go and boycott em', let the free market decide."

Its sad the number of people who think laws gauranteeing rights have done more to "hurt" the prosperity and rights of minorities than the people oppressing them. I wish I remembered who it was and what article the person I last argued this with was.
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Re: Vancouver Sun Op-Ed, let's change some words.

Post by Ahriman238 »

So, just so I understand what's going on, a couple is running a bed & breakfast out of their home. Ergo the Sun thinks they should have the right to deny a gay couple access to their home. Which is not a business despite accepting money for a specified service? Also, a gay couple being gay and sleeping in a room they paid for (who knows what heinous acts they might commit behind closed doors?) is somehow similar to bible-thumpers booking a cabin on a gay cruise and driving everyone nuts by throwing their beliefs in everyone's faces. Is that correct?

Or perhaps there's more to the story. Perhaps someone called them and ordered a room with one bed, and these devoutly religious people were surprised when two people got out of the car, and they were both men. Then they said something stupid and spent the rest of the evening thinking very hard about passionate man-love and how lucky they were to avoid it happening under their roof. Why I'll bet it never occurred to them that their behavior might be illegal or even rude. People have a funny way of reverting to selfish monkeys when shocked enough.

Yeah, even the most positive spin I can think of doesn't work out so well for the couple. Less so for the op-ed writer who has several days remove and every reason to spend fifteen minutes reading the law before shooting his mouth off.

I remember hearing once how this once city in Mexico instituted a law against indoor nudity, on the grounds it can be offensive to people looking in your windows. My reaction to that is the same as to this- Could you people please stop a moment, listen to what you're saying, and tell me if it sounds like the product of a healthy mind?
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