Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

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Spoonist
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Spoonist »

ryacko wrote:There is less unemployment in Detroit then in Greece which has 26%.
And?
What relevancy does Detroit have 1) to Greece 2) to any comparison with any european city/nation 3) to any context of civil riots, etc
ryacko wrote:Greece has an economic contraction rate of -7%. Somehow they still manage to have inflation of 1%.
And?
Is your point that the situation is not getting better right now? If so don't you think that actual Greeks already have that information?
ryacko wrote:I doubt conditions are as tenable as you presume.
Why?
How do you assume just how tenable Boeing thinks the condistions are?
ryacko wrote:You also presume that the opinions of a majority of the population actually matter. In times of uncertainty and violence, they can be cowed into accepting the desires of others.
Yes?
The majority of power factions or political trends do matter. If there are no factions with power that would gain from civil war or which are in a position to take power in a civil upheaval. Then there is really no chance that such an upheaval will take place. This since the current factions and the power behind them are actively avoiding such confrontation since they can only lose from it.
Why do you think that the powers that are gaining ground, like Golden Dawn, would have anything to gain from changing the current status quo?
Who do you think the Greek military is backing?
ryacko wrote:How is EUFOR any different then NORTHCOM providing support in the wake of riots?
:wtf:
Instead of asking the board, don't you think it would be prudent to simply wiki the different organisations? If you did you'd see that their role and organisation is completely different.
Comparing them in any way to each other or to even contemplate that EUFOR would get such a mandate on similar terms as NORTHCOM is completely alien.
Why did you specifically chose NORTHCOM to compare EUFOR with? In which way if any do you think they compare?
What standing troops do you think that EUFOR have that could be deployed in a rapidly detiriorating situation?
How long do you think it normally takes for a EUFOR deployment to take place between decision to actual troops on the ground?
ryacko wrote: I doubt there are as many factors as you would suggest.
Really?
You mean that you think that there are less factors involved than what has been mentioned in 3-4 posts in a web forum? And not that the situation is absurdly complex beyond the understanding of even experts in the field?
ryacko wrote: I bet that if civil order breaks down to such an extent that the Greek government declares a state of emergency and is incapable of collecting taxes (a natural result of an area mired in rioting), EUFOR will be called on to respond.
Why?
1) Why do you think that such a breakdown is likely when NATO, EU, Greece and other security experts simply don't?
2) Why do you think a state of emergency is the end of anything?
3) Greece has had trouble collecting taxes for decades why would now be different when the trend is the opposite?
4) Do you have any knowledge about european countries interrivalry or politics?
5) Do you know anything about the relationship between Greece and Turkey and what a civil war would signify for that relationship?
6) Why would the EU use EUFOR deployment at all before all the other options of intervention?
7) Why would Greece itself ask for EUFOR instead of for instance a NATO deployment?
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

This is apparently the moment in the script where we inform ryacko that the EU isn't the USA, and no longer makes a habit out of sending the Marine Corps to any shithole they don't like. Is this followed by the gun over the fireplace going off?
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by K. A. Pital »

Even if it does come to an uprising the fucktard who signs the "invade Greece" order would simply spell doom for the EU. Since it will mean that in case of sovereign default, revolution (which is by they way a right recognized now, unlike the imperialist monarchies of the XIX century) or government change EU troops will come and their boots will trample upon your skulls.

Spain, quite possibly large parts of Eastern Europe, maybe Italy will immediately secede after this shit. The EU will self-destruct in a matter of days.

After which "EUFOR" will become a non-entity.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Tiriol »

I really can't even imagine other EU states being willing to allow their troops to be used in that manner. It would spell the end of the political career of any sitting government if they would authorize anything like that - True Finns would have a field day about it in Finland, at least. And didn't many German soldiers refuse to go to Afghanistan (or was it Iraq?) etc. on the grounds that they felt the war was illegal and unjustified? What makes ryacko think that others wouldn't think the same way about invading Greece because of some money? And in any case, such use of force would mean that the European Union would have failed badly. It would have brought war back to (Western) Europe by itself, despite its original purpose of preventing a new war on European soil.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by K. A. Pital »

I can't imagine a German soldier walking into Greece willingly.

I can imagine a German soldier mutineer shooting at the person who gave such an order.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by madd0ct0r »

I can imagine EUFOR peacekeepers being invited in by an embattled greek goverment.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by K. A. Pital »

madd0ct0r wrote:I can imagine EUFOR peacekeepers being invited in by an embattled greek goverment.
I can't imagine this government surviving any second. It's already half-full of SYRIZA and KKE and other factions that would never ever allow this to happen.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Boeing 757 »

Stas Bush wrote:I can't imagine a German soldier walking into Greece willingly.

I can imagine a German soldier mutineer shooting at the person who gave such an order.
100% this. No one in Europe is crazy enough to undertake a military campaign against its neighbors, especially if it can be avoided. Not to mention in the case of Greece, the last time someone tried to invade it (back during WWII -- Albany, Italy and Germany), it put up some of the fiercest resistance that the Axis Powers had yet to encounter despite the regime of Ioannes Metaxas being universally seen as gruesome and backwards by most of the Greek populace. Many Greeks mistrust their government for good reason and all too many of them are quick to offer resistance against it, but if there is one assured insight that I've witnessed about their mentality, (and I'm not bragging or kidding here) it's that they would rather die fighting for their land than be occupied by a foreign power.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Siege »

In case of an armed insurgency perhaps the Greek government can invite some Turkish soldiers over to keep the peace under NATO article 5 :D.

Seriously though, a EU rapid reaction intervention in Greece is just about the most bonkers thing I've read in weeks. Regardless of its financial difficulties Greece is a sovereign state, and it would have to devolve to the status of a thoroughly failed state before the EU would even consider deploying soldiers to it. Certainly a bit of civil unrest wouldn't do it: in fact I imagine that right now a lot of European states would sooner be rid of Greece and take their losses than deploy soldiers to force it to say in the EMU.
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Re: Greece aims at saving 7 bln euros by cutting red tape

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Even if they wanted, the standing EU rapid reaction force is so small it would actually be outright be destroyed once the Greek military instantaneously mutinied and attacked it at the border, its based around mere battalion strength task forces, and I doubt even the whole thing, after it took months to mobilize and ship itself to south Europe, could successfully invade as it would still be outnumbered three to one. You'd have to call up a large portion of all the EU armies including endless assets tasked to NATO to do the job, at which point we've gone from delusional fantasy land to falling off the edge of the planet.
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