New York Legislature screws up language, bans all guns

[Kamakazie Sith]

That makes no fucking sense.

1) You can carry in public with a license.
2) But you mustn't have a round chambered.

So, how is it not allowable for an officer to confirm that you are complying with the restrictions that apply to you carrying said weapon?

1 - Wrong. In Utah you can openly carry a firearm in public WITHOUT a license but a round cannot be chambered. If you have a CCW then you can carry concealed and a round can be chambered.

2 - This is one of those useless gun control laws.

Again, it's the vehicle principle, an officer can confirm that you are licensed, your vehicle is registered and make basic checks as to it's legitimacy and safe function.

Why not for a goddamn gun?

Or is this just more nonsensical "INTRUDES ONTO MY GOD GIVEN BILL OF RIGHTS!" craziness?

Driving is a privilege and not a right. There is no amendment or wording in the constitution that gives you the right to drive a car. However, for firearms you have the US constitution and in addition to that many states have their own constitution and firearm ownership is listed as a civil right in these constitutions.

[Stark]

Bill of Rights only god-given until you need warrantless wiretaps.

[weemadando]

I'd love to see a Chaser-esque take on this. See how long it takes said God Given Rights to be trampled on when it's a bunch of swarthy dudes in kaftans toting some AKs in public, not a good old boy in denim with an AR15.

Or maybe the latter would just shoot the former and short cut the whole debate?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Bill of Rights only god-given until you need warrantless wiretaps.

Ah yes. An example of the executive abusing its power. Warrant-less wiretaps were ruled unconstitutional. However, cases were dismissed on the grounds that it could expose state secrets. They were still ruled unconstitutional though.

[weemadando]

For reference, this particular Chaser stunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yQntjmsZkI

[Stark]

Ah yes. An example of the executive abusing its power. Warrant-less wiretaps were ruled unconstitutional. However, cases were dismissed on the grounds that it could expose state secrets. They were still ruled unconstitutional though.

My understanding is that it continues to happen. So you can't search people/things to ensure compliance with conditions of licencing, but you can invade their privacy for literally no reason. 'Probable cause' seems pretty dubious.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ah yes. An example of the executive abusing its power. Warrant-less wiretaps were ruled unconstitutional. However, cases were dismissed on the grounds that it could expose state secrets. They were still ruled unconstitutional though.

My understanding is that it continues to happen. So you can't search people/things to ensure compliance with conditions of licencing, but you can invade their privacy for literally no reason. 'Probable cause' seems pretty dubious.

Yes, it does continue. The FISA Amendment of 2008 allows federal agents to wiretap the phones of American citizens, without a warrant, when they have probable cause that they are an enemy agent for seven days AND are operating outside the US. The the FISA court must give its permission and the citizen must be outside the US. If they return to the US then the wiretapping must cease.

So, technically you are wrong about invading someones privacy for "no reason" because probable cause is required, the FISA court must approve the wiretap, and it can only be in operation while the citizen is outside the US.

As for searching people/things to ensure compliance. Well, again Utah is an open carry state. Anyone, besides restricted persons, can open carry without a permit as long as a round is not chambered. If you have a permit then a round can be chambered.

[weemadando]

But how do you know if a round is chambered or they're a restricted person WITHOUT BEING ALLOWED TO CHECK THESE THINGS?

The pro-gun crowd scream about how we just need to police existing laws, but it sounds like you aren't actually allowed to police existing laws because that's already impinging on their vaunted liberty too much.

[SCRawl]

Discussion of roadside DUI checkpoints split to here.

[Kamakazie Sith]

But how do you know if a round is chambered or they're a restricted person WITHOUT BEING ALLOWED TO CHECK THESE THINGS?

The pro-gun crowd scream about how we just need to police existing laws, but it sounds like you aren't actually allowed to police existing laws because that's already impinging on their vaunted liberty too much.

The pro-gun crowd is talking about the dismal state of mental health records.

See here; http://www.demandaplan.org/fatalgaps - According to that database Utah only has 133 mental health records on file. 133! Insane. Montana has three!

They aren't talking about useless laws like the one we're discussing now.