Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tapes

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Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tapes

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668
On the White House tapes we learn that Johnson wanted to know from Daley how many delegates would support his candidacy. LBJ only wanted to get back into the race if Daley could guarantee the party would fall in line behind him.

...

By the time of the election in November 1968, LBJ had evidence Nixon had sabotaged the Vietnam war peace talks - or, as he put it, that Nixon was guilty of treason and had "blood on his hands".

The BBC's former Washington correspondent Charles Wheeler learned of this in 1994 and conducted a series of interviews with key Johnson staff, such as defence secretary Clark Clifford, and national security adviser Walt Rostow.

After the Viet Cong's Tet offensive, White House doves persuaded Johnson to end the war
Johnson loathed Senator Bobby Kennedy but the tapes show he was genuinely devastated by his assassination

He feared vice-president Hubert Humphrey would go soft on Vietnam if elected president
The BBC's Charles Wheeler would have been under FBI surveillance when he met administration officials in 1968

In 1971 Nixon made huge efforts to find a file containing everything Johnson knew in 1968 about Nixon's skulduggery

But by the time the tapes were declassified in 2008 all the main protagonists had died, including Wheeler.

Now, for the first time, the whole story can be told.

It begins in the summer of 1968. Nixon feared a breakthrough at the Paris Peace talks designed to find a negotiated settlement to the Vietnam war, and he knew this would derail his campaign.

He therefore set up a clandestine back-channel involving Anna Chennault, a senior campaign adviser.

At a July meeting in Nixon's New York apartment, the South Vietnamese ambassador was told Chennault represented Nixon and spoke for the campaign. If any message needed to be passed to the South Vietnamese president, Nguyen Van Thieu, it would come via Chennault.

In late October 1968 there were major concessions from Hanoi which promised to allow meaningful talks to get underway in Paris - concessions that would justify Johnson calling for a complete bombing halt of North Vietnam. This was exactly what Nixon feared.


The Paris peace talks may have ended years earlier, if it had not been for Nixon's subterfuge
Chennault was despatched to the South Vietnamese embassy with a clear message: the South Vietnamese government should withdraw from the talks, refuse to deal with Johnson, and if Nixon was elected, they would get a much better deal.

So on the eve of his planned announcement of a halt to the bombing, Johnson learned the South Vietnamese were pulling out.

He was also told why. The FBI had bugged the ambassador's phone and a transcripts of Anna Chennault's calls were sent to the White House. In one conversation she tells the ambassador to "just hang on through election".

Johnson was told by Defence Secretary Clifford that the interference was illegal and threatened the chance for peace.


Nixon went on to become president and eventually signed a Vietnam peace deal in 1973
In a series of remarkable White House recordings we can hear Johnson's reaction to the news.

In one call to Senator Richard Russell he says: "We have found that our friend, the Republican nominee, our California friend, has been playing on the outskirts with our enemies and our friends both, he has been doing it through rather subterranean sources. Mrs Chennault is warning the South Vietnamese not to get pulled into this Johnson move."

He orders the Nixon campaign to be placed under FBI surveillance and demands to know if Nixon is personally involved.

When he became convinced it was being orchestrated by the Republican candidate, the president called Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate to get a message to Nixon.

The president knew what was going on, Nixon should back off and the subterfuge amounted to treason.


Publicly Nixon was suggesting he had no idea why the South Vietnamese withdrew from the talks. He even offered to travel to Saigon to get them back to the negotiating table.

Johnson felt it was the ultimate expression of political hypocrisy but in calls recorded with Clifford they express the fear that going public would require revealing the FBI were bugging the ambassador's phone and the National Security Agency (NSA) was intercepting his communications with Saigon.

So they decided to say nothing.

The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Nixon ended his campaign by suggesting the administration war policy was in shambles. They couldn't even get the South Vietnamese to the negotiating table.

He won by less than 1% of the popular vote.
tl;dr: as has been assumed by many for years, but now confirmed: in 1968 the Nixon campaign went behind the State Department's back to convince the South Vietnamese to back out of peace negotiations with a willing North, promising a better deal under a Nixon presidency. That didn't happen until 1973 after Laos and Cambodia got some big American Agent Orange dick.


LBJ knew about it from tapping the ambassador's phone, and confirmed it via FBI investigation into the Nixon campaign; because of this, however, he couldn't figure out a good way to reveal it to the public without exposing his shady sources. He considered changing his mind and running for a second term by appearing at the violently-protested Democratic convention, but pussed out when the Secret Service said they couldn't guarantee his safety on such short notice. He told Hubert Humphrey about it, but he then overestimated his lead in the race and chose not to use it against Nixon, resulting in a 1% loss.

The LBJ tapes discussing this are suspected to be the driving force behind Nixon getting Howard Hunt to start a burglary unit, which never acquired the tapes but got up to some other business of course.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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BBC article wrote:In 1971 Nixon made huge efforts to find a file containing everything Johnson knew in 1968 about Nixon's skulduggery
This is the one that interests me in particular. It seems Nixon knew he had been caught red-handed and was looking to see what was known, perhaps to try and bury that evidence forever.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by FaxModem1 »

So, someone showed me this website dealing with the issue. Thoughts?

http://hnn.us/articles/60446.html
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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So not only a crook, but a traitor as well. Good job, Nixon.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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And that's why he resigned rather than face it coming out during an impeachment.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by Stark »

Broomstick wrote:And that's why he resigned rather than face it coming out during an impeachment.
That's a funny way to say 'got away scot free'. Hey, at least G Gordon Liddy was on Miami Vice a few times.

Lbj should have ordered a drone strike.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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He got away scot free because Gerald Ford issued a pardon on anything he might have done thereby short-circuiting any possible prosecution.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

so anything from a conspiracy theory is legit against one party, and anything another party actually does is a way out in left field conspiracy theory?
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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The Yosemite Bear wrote:so anything from a conspiracy theory is legit against one party, and anything another party actually does is a way out in left field conspiracy theory?
What does this mean? Who is it directed to?
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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Out of curiousity when does influencing an allied government become treason? We have plenty of public figures and celebrities actively trying to get ourselves and our allies out of places like Afghanistan and before Iraq in direct contridiction to US foreign policy goals. Would that qualify?

Its more clear cut when dealing with an enemy, though even that happened a bit during Vietnam for instance.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by TimothyC »

Can we get a thread title change - I found exactly one reference in the source article to the Viet Cong, and it was in reference to the Tet offensive, not any talks that were in progress.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by madd0ct0r »

Patroklos wrote:Out of curiousity when does influencing an allied government become treason? We have plenty of public figures and celebrities actively trying to get ourselves and our allies out of places like Afghanistan and before Iraq in direct contridiction to US foreign policy goals. Would that qualify?

Its more clear cut when dealing with an enemy, though even that happened a bit during Vietnam for instance.
Well, he was deliberately undermining peace talks for personal gain (the opposite of your example). And it was done in secret, unlike your example. And as a result of his actions, US troops died.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

I'm not sure it was personal gain. The involvement of Anna Chennault is interesting, she was pretty much Chiang Kai-Shek's woman in the United States. Remember that he was still alive and very much in charge of Taiwan at the time. I suspect part of this has to do with the fact that Chiang (who was almost certainly behind it) and Chennault operated quite sophisticatedly in reaching back to Nixon's roots as a die-hard anti-communist, basically do remember that he was more or less Joe McCarthy with less stupid in his days as a Congressman. Their objective certainly was to tell Nixon what he wanted to hear, but surely the goal was to counterattack communist influence everywhere in Asia.

I suspect there is a lot more to this story that needs to be told, because it speaks of an interesting confluence of events and figures. Their objective of preventing communist advances failed, but I'm sure in the late 1960s they were telling Nixon in no uncertain terms it was his chance to act, and that if he didn't engage in this course of action, the result would be a loss to international communism which couldn't be repaired.

One of the most interesting things is how badly this group split in relatively short order. Chiang of course desperately wanted to the United States to never recognize the PRC, and yet it was Nixon who was the one who did it. I suspect Kissinger's influence with his deeply pessimistic view of the US future, and coming to office and inheiriting Vietnam and realizing how messed up it was, made the break rather decisively easy... Nixon was not bought and paid for by foreign sources, ironically because he did the exact opposite of what the forces buying him would have wanted subsequently.

It's also interesting to think back and realize how very much a WW2 figure in most American history -- Chiang -- was actually perhaps far more influential in using his Christian missionary connections and endless influence developed during WW2 and even before it to direct US foreign policy in East Asia for his own personal gain. Arguably the person who stood to gain the most from this confluence of events, after all, was Chiang... And yet Nixon turned on him almost immediately. Perhaps they were using each other at the same time.

For that matter, though, the story of Anna Chennault is a fairly amazing one -- finished her BA at the age of 19 during the Japanese occupation--and promptly went to work as an allied war correspondent after some adventures in just getting to the front, and then married a general officer at the age of 22 who was 32 years her senior. Goes on to essentially become Taiwan's ambassador to the Republican Party for the entire duration of the Cold War. She's still alive, so I wonder if anyone will bother to ask her if Chiang thought this whole thing up in the first place, or Nixon, and if the objective was just to get Nixon elected or an operation under a profound conviction that it was necessary for anti-communism.
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Re: Nixon's secret talks with Viet Cong confirmed by LBJ tap

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Patroklos wrote:Out of curiousity when does influencing an allied government become treason? We have plenty of public figures and celebrities actively trying to get ourselves and our allies out of places like Afghanistan and before Iraq in direct contridiction to US foreign policy goals. Would that qualify?

Its more clear cut when dealing with an enemy, though even that happened a bit during Vietnam for instance.
Yeah, my understanding was that for it to be treason there had to be a declared state of war.
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