Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... s-20130416
There's a new congressional push to end the federal War on Pot in the states – and it's being spearheaded by some of the most conservative members of the Republican conference.

The "Respect State Marijuana Laws Act" introduced in the House last week would immunize anyone acting legally under state marijuana laws from federal prosecution under the Controlled Substances Act. Depending on the state, the legislation would cover both medical marijuana and recreational pot, and would protect not only the users of state-legal cannabis, but also the businesses that cultivate, process, distribute and sell marijuana in these states.

The legislation is in keeping with poll data released last week from Pew Research that found that 60 percent of Americans believe the feds should allow states to self-regulate when it comes to marijuana. The same poll finds that 57 percent of Republicans also favor this approach, which may explain why this bill is attracting arch-conservative backers in the House.

The Next Seven States to Legalize Pot

The three GOP co-sponsors are:

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher of California, who is best known to liberals as a villainous climate denier for theorizing that global warming is the result of "dinosaur flatulence."

Rep. Don Young of Alaska, the mastermind of the infamous Bridge to Nowhere, who was most recently in the news for recalling the "wetbacks" his father employed on the family farm.

And Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, who was recently "purged" from the Republican House Budget Committee – allegedly for being too conservative – and who has repeatedly voted against toughening penalties for human trafficking.

These hardcore Republicans are joined in a ganja Gang of Six by liberal pro-pot stalwarts Reps. Jared Polis of Colorado, Earl Blumenauer of Oregon and Steve Cohen of Tennessee.

Speaking for the group, Republican Rep. Rohrabacher said the bipartisan bill "establishes federal government respect for all states' marijuana laws" by "keeping the federal government out of the business of criminalizing marijuana activities in states that don't want it to be criminal."

Steve Fox, national political director of the Marijuana Policy Project, hailed the effort to bend federal marijuana law to the will of the governed. "Marijuana prohibition is on its last legs because most Americans no longer support it," said Fox, adding that the new legislation offers the states'-rights crowd in the House with a chance to vote their principles: "This legislation presents a perfect opportunity for members to embrace the notion that states should be able to devise systems for regulating marijuana without their citizens having to worry about breaking federal law."
Interesting development. Of course their motivation comes from the states rights vs. federal laws angle, but still a push in the right direction from an unexpected source.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

Post by Simon_Jester »

Personally, I think the state marijuana laws should be respected, BUT the use of marijuana as a medicine should be subject to FDA regulation. I don't have a problem with marijuana per se, but I do think its mind-affecting properties make it too powerful to be dispensed informally or over the counter.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Simon_Jester wrote: I don't have a problem with marijuana per se, but I do think its mind-affecting properties make it too powerful to be dispensed informally or over the counter.
Based on what? In regards to potency what makes you think marijuana is significantly worse than most hard liquors?

Actually, while we're on the subject of potency you might find this interesting. http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/02/27/d ... rspective/
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Simon_Jester wrote:Personally, I think the state marijuana laws should be respected, BUT the use of marijuana as a medicine should be subject to FDA regulation. I don't have a problem with marijuana per se, but I do think its mind-affecting properties make it too powerful to be dispensed informally or over the counter.
If used as a solely medicine, I can agree with that. I feel all forms of medical treatment or things that purport to be such should be subject to FDA regulation.

However, I see no reason why marijuana shouldn't be recreational when alcohol is. I think it should be regulated like alcohol. Now if you believe alcohol shouldn't be recreational as well, then I can understand a stance against recreational marijuana. I don't feel like you can justify criminalizing one and support the other.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Perhaps I'm missing something, but...

The thing about the medical marijuana thing is that it looks a lot to me like recreational use is being given a veneer of medical respectability - it doesn't seem all that difficult to get hold of one of those cards that one needs to be a dispensary client. While I'm sure there are bound to be some medical benefits to the use of cannabinoid extracts as medicine, unless I'm mistaken the cannabis is being dispensed in herbal form which means that the precise mixture of cannabinoids is always going to be variable, because plants don't care for human medicine's penchant for chemically precise dosages and administration and boring stuff like that.

It all seems somehow... insincere? Yet I say this as someone who's opinion has consistently been that the production and consumption of cannabis should be completely decriminalised. Why does the medical angle seem to get so much coverage (especially in the US)? Whatever happened to being the land of the free?
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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NoXion wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but...

The thing about the medical marijuana thing is that it looks a lot to me like recreational use is being given a veneer of medical respectability - it doesn't seem all that difficult to get hold of one of those cards that one needs to be a dispensary client. While I'm sure there are bound to be some medical benefits to the use of cannabinoid extracts as medicine, unless I'm mistaken the cannabis is being dispensed in herbal form which means that the precise mixture of cannabinoids is always going to be variable, because plants don't care for human medicine's penchant for chemically precise dosages and administration and boring stuff like that.

It all seems somehow... insincere? Yet I say this as someone who's opinion has consistently been that the production and consumption of cannabis should be completely decriminalised. Why does the medical angle seem to get so much coverage (especially in the US)? Whatever happened to being the land of the free?
A mixture of racism and being 'tough on crime' is basically how we got to our current drug laws. As for the medical issue, it is a bit insincere. It's been pushed so hard because the people fighting against our ridiculous war on drugs realized that the general public was more likely to support 'medical' marijuana than complete decriminalization or legalization and that once you get your foot in the door that way it's much easier to convince people of that latter.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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NoXion wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but...

The thing about the medical marijuana thing is that it looks a lot to me like recreational use is being given a veneer of medical respectability - it doesn't seem all that difficult to get hold of one of those cards that one needs to be a dispensary client. While I'm sure there are bound to be some medical benefits to the use of cannabinoid extracts as medicine, unless I'm mistaken the cannabis is being dispensed in herbal form which means that the precise mixture of cannabinoids is always going to be variable, because plants don't care for human medicine's penchant for chemically precise dosages and administration and boring stuff like that.

It all seems somehow... insincere? Yet I say this as someone who's opinion has consistently been that the production and consumption of cannabis should be completely decriminalised. Why does the medical angle seem to get so much coverage (especially in the US)? Whatever happened to being the land of the free?
Talk to a cancer patient about medical marijuana and you'll eat your words. I got my prescription due to intractable abdominal pain. That said, I do think it's easier than it should be since most doctors willing to prescribe it seem to only get paid if they prescribe it. :lol:
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Flagg wrote:Talk to a cancer patient about medical marijuana and you'll eat your words. I got my prescription due to intractable abdominal pain.
Which words would those be exactly? I'm well aware that cannabis can provide relief from pain as well as (if I'm not mistaken) the side-effects of chemotherapy such as nausea and a lack of appetite. However, I'm not convinced the practice is any more medically sound than using things like painkillers or alcohol for similar purposes. In fact since the cannabinoid content within a single plant can be variable, let alone between different strains, as opposed to painkillers/alcohol which tend to come in fairly closely measured amounts (500mg paracetamol/40% of 75cL, to give an example for painkillers and alcohol respectively), it looks even worse for cannabis in terms of controlled dosages.
That said, I do think it's easier than it should be since most doctors willing to prescribe it seem to only get paid if they prescribe it. :lol:
I just think it would be better all round if people who so wished could secure a reliable source of good quality cannabis for both recreational and medicinal purposes, without having to jump through silly bureaucratic loopholes to do so, and whatever their reasons for consuming cannabis, they should feel free to be able to have a full and frank discussion about the matter with a medical professional.

So I find the news in the OP to be heartening as it constitutes a step in the right direction, and I can't help but wonder why this issue seems to more readily cross American party lines?
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

Post by Flagg »

NoXion wrote:
Flagg wrote:Talk to a cancer patient about medical marijuana and you'll eat your words. I got my prescription due to intractable abdominal pain.
Which words would those be exactly? I'm well aware that cannabis can provide relief from pain as well as (if I'm not mistaken) the side-effects of chemotherapy such as nausea and a lack of appetite. However, I'm not convinced the practice is any more medically sound than using things like painkillers or alcohol for similar purposes. In fact since the cannabinoid content within a single plant can be variable, let alone between different strains, as opposed to painkillers/alcohol which tend to come in fairly closely measured amounts (500mg paracetamol/40% of 75cL, to give an example for painkillers and alcohol respectively), it looks even worse for cannabis in terms of controlled dosages.
Dude, dosages don't mean jack shit because you cannot OD from marijuana. People have actually tried to and none have. So it doesn't really matter.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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NoXion wrote: So I find the news in the OP to be heartening as it constitutes a step in the right direction, and I can't help but wonder why this issue seems to more readily cross American party lines?
Probably because it's one of the things they can admit that they enjoy as much as Democrats without being ashamed about it. Toking a joint is almost fashionable these days.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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NoXion, there's actually a pill that does away with the imprecise nature of marijuana's cannibinoid levels from sample to sample. Marinol. Of course, the LD50 for THC is actually attainable, if difficult to achieve, with a pill or the like. Last I heard 3 deaths have been attributed to Marinol, though just how firm the connection is I have no idea.


But yeah, you cannot OD by smoking it. It is not physically possible to smoke that much weed in a short enough time period. We're talking nine times an average guy's bodyweight in 15 minutes. And that's using strong pot. The LD50 of THC when inhaled is insanely high. You'll pass out from lack of getting enough oxygen long before the THC puts your health in danger of long term damage. Doesn't mean people won't have a bad time while high and think they're gonna die, though...
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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General Zod wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote: I don't have a problem with marijuana per se, but I do think its mind-affecting properties make it too powerful to be dispensed informally or over the counter.
Based on what? In regards to potency what makes you think marijuana is significantly worse than most hard liquors?
Hm, let me clarify my thinking.

Alcohol is explicitly available as a recreational drug. If hard liquor were a medicine (say, if it actually cured some mental condition), we'd probably put restrictions on it too, because of the immense potential to get yourself into an altered state where you're dangerous. Very few mind-affecting drugs are available over the counter, except for sleeping pills and stuff you'd have to grossly OD on to get mental effects.

Marijuana should be under the same rules.

If marijuana is to be made legal as a recreational drug, fine and good- treat it the same way as alcohol and tobacco, but make sure to slip some money to Potheads Anonymous to deal with the upswing in dependency.

If it's to be made legal as a medicine, it needs to be regulated as a medicine. Not least to keep people from becoming dependent on it when they have no medical need for it, same as some people have addictions to prescription medicines as it stands.
Actually, while we're on the subject of potency you might find this interesting. http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/02/27/d ... rspective/
Great. Glad they're thinking this through.
NoXion wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but...

The thing about the medical marijuana thing is that it looks a lot to me like recreational use is being given a veneer of medical respectability - it doesn't seem all that difficult to get hold of one of those cards that one needs to be a dispensary client...
Aaaand boom. That sums up my feelings in a nutshell: if marijuana is to become a recreational drug we should say so; if it's a medicine, its side effects are large enough that it should still be under at least some kind of serious legal control.
Flagg wrote:Dude, dosages don't mean jack shit because you cannot OD from marijuana. People have actually tried to and none have. So it doesn't really matter.
If there's a line past which you're not safe to operate heavy machinery while stoned, it really matters. If nothing else, you need to draw a line between "too medicated to drive" and "not too medicated to drive."
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Well, one of the reasons that it may end up being legal "for medical use only" while being very easy to get prescribed may be to get around international treaties on drugs that the US has signed and often been the driving force behind, similar to how it is technically illegal in the Netherlands but that law has been found by the courts to be unenforceable. Is this a poor solution to the problem? Absolutely. Is it the most politically expedient way to deal with the issue? Probably.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Simon_Jester wrote: Alcohol is explicitly available as a recreational drug. If hard liquor were a medicine (say, if it actually cured some mental condition), we'd probably put restrictions on it too, because of the immense potential to get yourself into an altered state where you're dangerous. Very few mind-affecting drugs are available over the counter, except for sleeping pills and stuff you'd have to grossly OD on to get mental effects.

Marijuana should be under the same rules.

If marijuana is to be made legal as a recreational drug, fine and good- treat it the same way as alcohol and tobacco, but make sure to slip some money to Potheads Anonymous to deal with the upswing in dependency.

If it's to be made legal as a medicine, it needs to be regulated as a medicine. Not least to keep people from becoming dependent on it when they have no medical need for it, same as some people have addictions to prescription medicines as it stands.
Purified alcohol still has uses in medicine as a topical disinfectant. A lot of cough syrups have alchohol in them. I don't see why it needs to be explicitly one or the other. If it's a legitimate medicinal use there's ways to prepare marijuana in the form of THC pills that let you skip the smoking stage. So you could use one form of marijuana for medicine and one for recreation. In the meantime you free up the doctors offices from "patients" that are there just to get their fix so they have time to see legitimate patients.
Aaaand boom. That sums up my feelings in a nutshell: if marijuana is to become a recreational drug we should say so; if it's a medicine, its side effects are large enough that it should still be under at least some kind of serious legal control.
Do you think the DEA would be likely to reverse their decision at all without a lot of medical research indicating that reefer madness was really full of bullshit? It's not like they can easily get that data without investigating uses for legitimate medical purposes.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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General Zod wrote:Do you think the DEA would be likely to reverse their decision at all without a lot of medical research indicating that reefer madness was really full of bullshit? It's not like they can easily get that data without investigating uses for legitimate medical purposes.
That's a good point, so I have to wonder I've hardly ever seen it emphasised, even by legalisation advocates. In fact I wonder why I didn't make the connection myself, especially since I've heard of tentative research that suggests other common recreational drugs such as MDMA may have medical applications that would be hindered by the current legal frameworks in place.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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General Zod wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote: Alcohol is explicitly available as a recreational drug. If hard liquor were a medicine (say, if it actually cured some mental condition), we'd probably put restrictions on it too, because of the immense potential to get yourself into an altered state where you're dangerous. Very few mind-affecting drugs are available over the counter, except for sleeping pills and stuff you'd have to grossly OD on to get mental effects.

Marijuana should be under the same rules.

If marijuana is to be made legal as a recreational drug, fine and good- treat it the same way as alcohol and tobacco, but make sure to slip some money to Potheads Anonymous to deal with the upswing in dependency.

If it's to be made legal as a medicine, it needs to be regulated as a medicine. Not least to keep people from becoming dependent on it when they have no medical need for it, same as some people have addictions to prescription medicines as it stands.
Purified alcohol still has uses in medicine as a topical disinfectant. A lot of cough syrups have alchohol in them. I don't see why it needs to be explicitly one or the other. If it's a legitimate medicinal use there's ways to prepare marijuana in the form of THC pills that let you skip the smoking stage. So you could use one form of marijuana for medicine and one for recreation. In the meantime you free up the doctors offices from "patients" that are there just to get their fix so they have time to see legitimate patients.
You do know that most if not all marijuana subscribers are set up to explicitly prescribe marijuana, right?
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Do a lot of people in this state have their marijuana card just so they can smoke pot recreationally? Yes. Are they 100% of the people who have marijuana cards here? No. (Anecdotal Evidence Ahoy): I drive this one guy who has his legs on backwards almost due to some kind of birth defect, and he came off oxycontin by smoking a shitload of legal marijuana, just because it dulls the pain some (not as much) without making him retarded all day. I'm glad that guy was able to kick hard narcotics and that he can get his pot from a nice, safe storefront instead of rolling his wheelchair into a dark alley for it.

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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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I wonder what a Pot smoker's lung looks like. After all, smoke inhalation of any kind can not be good for anyone.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Zwinmar wrote:I wonder what a Pot smoker's lung looks like. After all, smoke inhalation of any kind can not be good for anyone.
Likely the same as a tobacco smoker's lungs. Of course I use a vaporizer, so...
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Flagg wrote:
Zwinmar wrote:I wonder what a Pot smoker's lung looks like. After all, smoke inhalation of any kind can not be good for anyone.
Likely the same as a tobacco smoker's lungs. Of course I use a vaporizer, so...
Pot smokers also don't inhale forty or fifty blunts a day. Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson excluded of course.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Zwinmar wrote:I wonder what a Pot smoker's lung looks like. After all, smoke inhalation of any kind can not be good for anyone.
No, it's not. However, the damage caused by cigarette smoke is less a case of just the smoke and more what's in the smoke. If you did a bit of research, there are multiple studies that have been released recently that cover the effects of marijuana smoke inhalation, both long-term and short-term. Short-term effects of smoking seems to be similar to tabacco smoke, with phlegm production, coughing, and irritated airways. However, the long-term damage is not even close to be equivalent. As in, there really aren't any (for moderate smokers).

Here's a study that was conducted over 20 years to study the long term effects of moderate marijuana use: Association Between Marijuana Exposure and Pulmonary Function Over 20 Years

If you'd rather not read the entire study, here's an article in the NY Times about it:
Moderate Marijuana Use Does Not Impair Lung Function, Study Finds

The study does point out that chronic and heavy use will lead to a decrease in lung function, but pretty much everything can be harmful when not taken in moderation. ;) However, even with that point, the article quotes a pulmonologist not involved with the study who said his own studies showed that even 3 joints a day (which is pretty heavy use for your average smoker) did not lead to a decrease in lung function.
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Flagg wrote: Likely the same as a tobacco smoker's lungs. Of course I use a vaporizer, so...
You know that still vaporizes a lot of the tar right?
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Re: Conservatives Push Marijuana Reform in Congress

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Sea Skimmer wrote:
Flagg wrote: Likely the same as a tobacco smoker's lungs. Of course I use a vaporizer, so...
You know that still vaporizes a lot of the tar right?
Yeah, but it's still a lot safer than smoking it.
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