Margaret Thatcher dies at 87

[Ultonius]

the tail end of a speech by someone else

Edward Carson, later Sir Edward, then Lord Carson, who famously successfully defended the Marquess of Queensbury against a libel charge brought against him by Oscar Wilde after he called Wilde a sodomite, which in turn led to Wilde's trial and imprisonment. He is also regarded as one of the founding fathers of Northern Ireland, and, interestingly, was the last non-royal before Churchill to receive a state funeral, which took place in St Anne's Cathedral in Belfast, the only one to take place outside England.

[OneEyedTeddyMcGrew]

The turnout for Thatcher's funeral in Edinburgh.



And in Leeds.



I don't feel like any further comment is really required on these.

[Simon_Jester]

Ah. Thank you, Ultonius; I was not familiar with Lord Carson by reputation, and did not do the research because time was pressing and I was trying to stick to the point. Interesting.

And of course after defending the Marquise of Queensbury, he went on to defend General Dyer.

[Ultonius]

Ah. Thank you, Ultonius; I was not familiar with Lord Carson by reputation, and did not do the research because time was pressing and I was trying to stick to the point. Interesting.

And of course after defending the Marquise of Queensbury, he went on to defend General Dyer.

Sorry if I came across as a know-it-all. I just thought it was an interesting coincidence that the last two non-royal recipients of state funerals crossed paths in parliament like that. I suppose that in his own way, Carson is just as good an example as Thatcher and Churchill of how a person can be viewed in many different ways. He's revered by Ulster Unionists and decried by Irish nationalists for his role in the creation of Northern Ireland, but apart from that his support for Dyer's actions at Amritsar and his attacks on Wilde are the only things he is popularly remembered for, both of them positions that turned out to be on the wrong side of history.

[Lord Pounder]

Ah. Thank you, Ultonius; I was not familiar with Lord Carson by reputation, and did not do the research because time was pressing and I was trying to stick to the point. Interesting.

And of course after defending the Marquise of Queensbury, he went on to defend General Dyer.

Sorry if I came across as a know-it-all. I just thought it was an interesting coincidence that the last two non-royal recipients of state funerals crossed paths in parliament like that. I suppose that in his own way, Carson is just as good an example as Thatcher and Churchill of how a person can be viewed in many different ways. He's revered by Ulster Unionists and decried by Irish nationalists for his role in the creation of Northern Ireland, but apart from that his support for Dyer's actions at Amritsar and his attacks on Wilde are the only things he is popularly remembered for, both of them positions that turned out to be on the wrong side of history.

Carson was also founder and the main benefactor of the Ulster Volunteer Force. To this day a statue of Carson exists in the driveway up to Stormont, a resounding sign that Northern Ireland was designed as a Protestant state for a Protestant people.

[Ultonius]

Carson was also founder and the main benefactor of the Ulster Volunteer Force.

True, though I would point out that Carson's UVF was not an expressly anti-Catholic terrorist organization like the modern group of the same name, but an at least semi-legal militia intended to resist Home Rule in Ulster. Carson warned the Ulster Unionists against mistreating the Catholic minority within Northern Ireland saying 'We used to say that we could not trust an Irish parliament in Dublin to do justice to the Protestant minority. Let us take care that that reproach can no longer be made against your parliament, and from the outset let them see that the Catholic minority have nothing to fear from a Protestant majority.' Had that advice been followed, the Troubles might have been avoided.