Leaked: Info on US Data Collection Programs

[Ziggy Stardust]

Riddle me this, o principled one, why should I care about the deaths of a people serving an organization that not only has monstrous crimes on its conscious but is poised to repeat the same crimes in the future?

So I take this to mean that you are of the camp that believes, for example, that everyone in Germany was just as evil as Hitler? Either that, or I expect you to provide some evidence that every single person involved in the CIA is evil. Or did you not realize that the vast majority of CIA activity does not involve torturing people and overthrowing governments? Or maybe you are just one of those people that thinks every single American is evil. Either way, you have an awfully black-and-white perspective on reality, which is rarely a good way to look at things.

Hell, while we are at it, let's also murder all of those CIA operatives trying to stop drug runners in Latin America. Or murder all the Congressman for giving the CIA funding. Or, hey, just start killing cops on the street, because they sometimes collaborate with the CIA too! Because, folks, every single person that's ever even talked to the CIA at any point ever is evil.

EDIT: The sad thing is that this isn't even a strawman. This is literally what you said; everyone who has worked for or helped the CIA regardless of situation or context is evil.

[Simon_Jester]

The US is not going to work as hard to find Snowden as it did to find Osama bin Laden. Snowden isn't going to be as good at hiding, but I suspect the lack of search effort will cancel that out.

So they are going to try real hard for six months then give up for ten years?

More or less, but substitute "weeks" for "months" and "whatever" for "years."

If Snowden winds up in a country that refuses to extradite him (and if he's got any damn common sense he probably can), that will be that, I predict.

[Metahive]

So I take this to mean that you are of the camp that believes, for example, that everyone in Germany was just as evil as Hitler?

What a completely dishonest and disingenuous comparison that is. A more valid comparison would of involve one of Nazi Germany's own clandestine organisations like the Sicherheitsdienst. And lo and behold, suddenly your attempt at poisoning the well falls apart since, ya' know, I would of course not shed any tears for dead SD agents either.

Either that, or I expect you to provide some evidence that every single person involved in the CIA is evil.

Was every SD member evil? Heck, was every single member of the NSDAP a baby-eating supervillain? No, but why the fuck should I care? The organization as a whole was involved in evil shit, that's sufficient. But I guess that since, again, its victims were mostly non-whites in faraway countries, they don't register on your radar for moral outrage.

Your standard of judging the moral standing of an organisation is stupid and I reject it.

Or maybe you are just one of those people that thinks every single American is evil.

O, you're playing the Bush-card, "IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US YOU'RE AGAINST US!!!!". Forget it, that one got old in, what, 2004.

Or murder all the Congressman for giving the CIA funding. Or, hey, just start killing cops on the street, because they sometimes collaborate with the CIA too! Because, folks, every single person that's ever even talked to the CIA at any point ever is evil.

I reject this further sad attempt at well-poisoning. I consider the CIA a criminal organization and don't weep if a willing member of it should come to harm. That's my position, deal with it.

The sad thing is that this isn't even a strawman.

Since most of your post was spend wildly exaggerating my position and making invalid comparisons, I'd say your reflective analysis is faulty.

[Ziggy Stardust]

No, but why the fuck should I care? The organization as a whole was involved in evil shit, that's sufficient.

So you admit that you are advocating the deaths of innocents?

But I guess that since, again, its victims were mostly non-whites in faraway countries, they don't register on your radar for moral outrage.

Ha, and you accuse ME of poisoning the well? Please point to anything in my post that his is even a relevant answer to. Never did I defend the actions of the CIA, try to absolve them of harm they've done, or anything even remotely similar to that. But actually responding honestly to my post would be too easy, wouldn't it, you miserable little fuck? It's a lot easier to troll everyone by throwing out Internet Tough Guy ramblings about killing people and then hiding behind strawman accusations of racism, isn't it?

Your standard of judging the moral standing of an organisation is stupid and I reject it.

You really are a stupid fuck aren't you? Are you illiterate or just dishonest? I never said anything about the moral standing of the CIA, asshole. I was talking specifically about your supposition of killing low-level operatives, which is completely different.

I reject this further sad attempt at well-poisoning. I consider the CIA a criminal organization and don't weep if a willing member of it should come to harm. That's my position, deal with it.

So, again, you admit that you are advocating for the murder of innocent people? Concession accepted. (Also, learn what the fuck "poisoning the well" means, jackass. You can't just throw out terms you are vaguely aware of in a desperate attempt to avoid actually responding to other people's arguments)

Since most of your post was spend wildly exaggerating my position and making invalid comparisons, I'd say your reflective analysis is faulty.

Where did I wildly exaggerate your position? You said yourself, explicitly, that you have no problem with the murder of any one in the CIA, regardless of context. You've said so in multiple posts now (hell, you JUST SAID IT IN THE SAME POST AS YOU ACCUSE ME OF EXAGGERATION, so you can't even stay consistent!); and given the chance to clarify your stance, you simply reiterated it. Just because you are an illiterate buffoon who somehow interpreted my post as being racist doesn't change the fact that you are willfully advocating the murder of innocent people.

EDIT: Also, don't think I didn't notice you selectively editing out portions of my post so you can ignore my point. Do you support the murder of CIA agents going after drug traffickers? Do you support the murder of police that cooperate with the CIA? According to you, everyone that works with the CIA is complicit in evil, and deserves to die. What about civilian contractors? What about the CIA scientists whose only job is to design cameras for satellites? What about the employees of In-Q-Tel? Hell, what about Google? GoogleEarth was developed by buying Keyhole, a CIA funded satellite program ... looks like everyone at Google deserves to be killed too!

[LadyTevar]

OK, ENOUGH OF THIS. Topic Locked. If I can get Ziggy & Metahive's BS cleaned out, I'll reopen the thread for Intelligent Discourse later.

[Thanas]

Reopened the thread upon request.

I hope everyone will be able to play nice now and not continue the previous flamewar.

If not, thread will be locked again and stay locked.