Wikiweapon Project

[Formless]

Again, gunpowder is less of an issue than primer, and primer is fairly easy to restrict because it is intrinsically dangerous to synthesize and handle outside of a professional manufacturing environment. It is explosive. Unless you are willing to use corrosive stuff like matchheads, of course, but you have to be pretty desperate to do that. Its more of a SHTF technique than something one would rely on.

[PeZook]

Yeah, with all those problems, criminals will just continue to get weapons and ammunition the way they always do: steal legal guns and/or buy them from corrupt police and the military. Ordinary civilians will never just print guns out in order to get FREEEDOM!!!! because you still need a 3d printer setup that most people won't be able to afford or use anyways. Besides, in the US you can just get a shotgun, so the police ALREADY have to assume guns are everywhere.

Either way, only insane lunatics will try to make their own propellant and ammo just so they can STICK IT TO DA MAN, and in places where guns are not commonplace police will just do what American police do, IE become paranoid and heavy-handed. FREEDOM!

[Formless]

Pretty much. Though there are a few legitimate reasons I can see that someone might want to be able to make their own firearm-- wildcatting (as I mentioned already), making unique or custom weapons (like that guy in the video I posted), and recreating rare or antique firearms, like this Volcanic pistol. However, the second two really deserve a higher quality item than a 3-d printer gives you.

[madd0ct0r]

3rd reason - you don't live in the west, and the regime is wobbling.

[PeZook]

Can you count on being able to get 3d printers, materials for it and reliable internet access when it finally woblles over, though? I mean cheaper than it is to just buy a gun (and proper, reliable ammo) off the black market?

[madd0ct0r]

depends on how strict government control is, and how far in advance a group is planning. 3d printers aren't yet a common workshop tool, and I imagine the time taken to print each gun would be significant.

It'd be much easier to set up a small fab unit with smuggled designs then smuggle in case after case of rifles though.

[Atlan]

7 .22LR rounds? a bit off. Their latest reciever design went up to 600 rounds of .223, and still was intact. That first version broke because they didn't take into account materials. The current version does.

Calling this "printing a firearm" is a bit disingenious. They're not actually printing ANY of the high-stress parts, just the reciever. Of course an AR-15 reciever is the number bearing part, so legally it's a firearm.

But as noted, it's the low-stress part they're printing. Into which they then drop the trigger group (not printed), screw in the buffer tube assembly (not printed), and upon which they mount the upper (Most assuredly not printed).

They're a LONG way away from printing a complete firearm which will not disassemble upon firing.

[Irbis]

See, this is one of the reasons I posted this article. Most of the hangers on to this project that I've seen, especially the card carrying NRA wankers and talk radio hosts, seem to not understand the fundamental limitations of the printer technology that is being used here. Printing plastic and printing metal are two different things-- both are possible, but the latter is never going to be a DYI technology. Period. It is an industrial process, involving such things as either big ass furnaces or industrial strength electron lasers (and other similarly expensive machinery) to melt the damn stuff.

Yes, you can't make any metal parts, but the only one you really need is barrel. Someone willing to make schematics for all-printable gun can just add a link where you can buy "absolutely not a barrel metal pipes" or include instructions how to pick appropriate pipe fitting the gun. Yes, random pipe won't be as good as proper barrel steel, but that can be counteracted by just picking thicker one.

As for rifling, can't you make ammo rotate by cutting grooves into bullets? If so smoothbore barrel isn't going to be as big problem, and anyway, it's not like you need spectacular accuracy if you just want to fire into the crowd or are a burglar needing "job" gun as distances involved will be just a few meters.

Also, people who reload/handload still have to buy primer (aka, that stuff that sets off the powder when hit with a hammer). Those chemicals are pretty dangerous to work with, precisely because of their tendency to explode when struck. So making ammo from scratch is actually deceptively complicated.

Can't you just replace primer with pair of common 9 volt batteries? It works for mass-produced firearms, so, can't perfectly normal case filled with gunpowder be shoot that way just fine?

[Formless]

See, this is one of the reasons I posted this article. Most of the hangers on to this project that I've seen, especially the card carrying NRA wankers and talk radio hosts, seem to not understand the fundamental limitations of the printer technology that is being used here. Printing plastic and printing metal are two different things-- both are possible, but the latter is never going to be a DYI technology. Period. It is an industrial process, involving such things as either big ass furnaces or industrial strength electron lasers (and other similarly expensive machinery) to melt the damn stuff.

Yes, you can't make any metal parts, but the only one you really need is barrel. Someone willing to make schematics for all-printable gun can just add a link where you can buy "absolutely not a barrel metal pipes" or include instructions how to pick appropriate pipe fitting the gun. Yes, random pipe won't be as good as proper barrel steel, but that can be counteracted by just picking thicker one.

You are forgetting the firing pin. That has to be made of metal too, unless you are using electrical priming (which uses metal by default). And as Atlan noted, there is also the trigger mechanism and related mechanical parts. Plus the magazine spring if its semi-auto. These parts don't have to deal with huge pressures of the gun going off, but its still higher stress than most plastics prefer.

You wonder why I ignored Beowolf's post? Pretty much that's it. You simply can't print an entirely plastic gun no matter how hard you try. It'll blow itself up without proper materials.

As for rifling, can't you make ammo rotate by cutting grooves into bullets?

No. If you could, they would make self-rotating shotgun slugs. If you look at a Forrester shot-slug sometime, they do have what appear to be rifling-fins (which is why some people call them rifled slugs), but in fact they have no effect on the slug's rotation at all. If you want a slug to self-stabilize, the methods of choice are to front-load the weight or create drag somehow, and those methods do not get the same level of accuracy as a properly spin-stabilized bullet. That's why there are shotgun barrels made with spiral rifling for use with saboted slugs. Unless you are going for more of a rocket than a bullet, but then see the failure of the Gyrojet system and the absurd price of gyrojet ammo.

Besides, now you are talking about custom made bullets and all the work that requires on top of making the launcher.

If so smoothbore barrel isn't going to be as big problem, and anyway, it's not like you need spectacular accuracy if you just want to fire into the crowd or are a burglar needing "job" gun as distances involved will be just a few meters.

Obviously you don't understand how difficult it is to shoot accurately even with proper rifling. Suffice to say that muskets went obsolete for a good damn reason.

Can't you just replace primer with pair of common 9 volt batteries? It works for mass-produced firearms, so, can't perfectly normal case filled with gunpowder be shoot that way just fine?

What mass produced firearms are you talking about? Electrical priming has never gotten past the prototyping stage of development (see: Metal Storm). Turns out there is a small to non-existent market for experimental guns if they have no advantage over proven designs like the Glock, Colt, AR, Kalashnikov, etc.

See, a conventional cartridge is metal all the way through. Electrical priming requires either a filament with enough resistance to heat up to ignition temperatures (which is made easier if you use chemical primer, BTW), or the ability to generate a spark across the gap where your gunpowder is. Since electricity will, like water, flow through the path of least resistance, with a conventional casing it'll go around the gunpowder completely. That means the gun won't go bang. In fact, someone I know very well makes his own electronics and sometimes you will see him solder spent cartridges into his circuits because its free metal if you get it from a scrapyard.

It is entirely possible to make an electrically primed weapon, but it involves redesigning the whole cartridge (on top of your redesign of the bullet above). That brings you back to all the complexities of industrial design talked about by Make in the article I posted. Or you can just buy primers and even factory ammunition either legally or off the black market and load that into your gun. You tell me which sounds easier.

[LaCroix]

See, a conventional cartridge is metal all the way through. Electrical priming requires either a filament with enough resistance to heat up to ignition temperatures (which is made easier if you use chemical primer, BTW), or the ability to generate a spark across the gap where your gunpowder is. Since electricity will, like water, flow through the path of least resistance, with a conventional casing it'll go around the gunpowder completely. That means the gun won't go bang.

You can, in fact, set off conventional ammunition with electricity. Just short-curcuit a car battery through the bullet. The current heats the casing so much that the primer sets off - a bit below 200°C.

Not quite practical, but doable. I use the seme method to fire rockets out of my 1/16th sclae MLRS. (See my profile pic.)
But of course doing this would melt your plastic gun parts in the process...

[AMX]

What mass produced firearms are you talking about? Electrical priming has never gotten past the prototyping stage of development (see: Metal Storm). Turns out there is a small to non-existent market for experimental guns if they have no advantage over proven designs like the Glock, Colt, AR, Kalashnikov, etc.

Most artillery and some autocannons.

In small arms, it's rare (unless you count rocket launchers) - the only electrically-primed rifle ammunition I can think of is the Usel Caseless Cartridge. That was in series production at some point; I wouldn't call it "mass production" though.

Technical note: The production UCC uses a combustible semiconductor as a primer, which is very selective about the voltage and current needed to set it off. Obviously not something you could easily make at home.
Early prototypes however used a thin layer of lead painted on the base of the powder plug (remember, "Caseless") which would be much easier to do - it was unacceptble for commercial production because it caused lead buildup on the bolt, eventually shorting out the electrodes.

[LaCroix]

Or you simply use a 8cell racing pack, a thin iron wire (I use parts of a steel sponge for pan scrubbing) with partial isolation (so it hasn't contact with the case) fed through the primer hole, and then short-circuit the wire over the battery. Wire glows white hot and vaporizes within milliseconds.

I sucessfully ignited everything with that method...

[Sea Skimmer]

Most artillery and some autocannons.

Aye, people have electrical priming for artillery working at least as early as 1902 in the US, and since the US was behind the curve on artillery technology at the time I would imaging that means it was working earlier in Europe. Interestingly people are now moving into using lasers.

In small arms, it's rare (unless you count rocket launchers) - the only electrically-primed rifle ammunition I can think of is the Usel Caseless Cartridge. That was in series production at some point; I wouldn't call it "mass production" though.

Remington Model 700 EtronX uses it at the moment with a special .22-250 round. Production is low but it exists, the only point is improved accuracy via allowing very soft trigger pulls and no delay time for shooting small fast game. Firing pin is electrically insulated and the actual circuit breaking contact point is back in the trigger group, power supply is a 9 volt battery.

[Irbis]

So, another group decided to up the ante by printing first metal gun, 1911:

FAQ here. Yes, it's not cheap, but no new technology is, and it looks like soon you wouldn't even need to procure 'absolutely not a barrel' metal pipe to produce something capable of firing a few hundred rounds into the crowd.

Still, plastic gun crowd doesn't idle either, people are now figuring out how to make plastic ammo for 100% non-metal gun, too, reporters even tested it by carrying a prototype through train station metal detector without any problems.

Have a very nice day.

[PeZook]

They got primers from store-bough rounds and there won't be bypassing that until 3d printers can also print complex chemicals.

Of course in the US nobody asks any questions unless you buy a very large amount of ammo, so...

[Zaune]

Primers wouldn't be that hard to make; potassium chlorate is probably the easiest to get hold of, it's got a number of commercial uses and the amounts needed would be too small to raise many suspicions. I think you could probably use match-heads, in fact.

[Irbis]

They got primers from store-bough rounds and there won't be bypassing that until 3d printers can also print complex chemicals.

Of course in the US nobody asks any questions unless you buy a very large amount of ammo, so...

Well, besides ammo issue, there is CTA [link]:



Caseless round made from electrically combustible polymer, which very much looks like something easily printed from special material in even cheapest plastic printer. H&K made it work in 1980s, why not 35 years later?



I wonder if Germany ever made G11 plans public, that is one gun I'd really like to touch

[Zaune]

Hmmm. Caseless rounds didn't really catch on because they cause a lot of extra wear and tear on the mechanism -the brass casing makes a useful heatsink- but in a literally throwaway weapon like these 3D printed ones are supposed to be that might not matter so much.

[AMX]

Well, besides ammo issue, there is CTA [link]:

FWS has very little idea what they are talking about.
CTA differs from traditional ammunition only by placing the bullet entirely inside the case ("telescoped").
It does not use any revolutionary material.

Caseless round made from electrically combustible polymer, which very much looks like something easily printed from special material in even cheapest plastic printer. H&K made it work in 1980s, why not 35 years later?

That image does not include any CTA round - but two different caseless rounds; the one on the right is telescoped, but it is not CTA, on account of not having a case.

Note that "electrically combustible polymer" is bullshit - these particular rounds use normal nitrocellulosis, same as you would find inside a traditional cartridge.
They do use a combustible electric primer, though.

H&K had nothing to do with this ammunition. Their version used traditional primers, which remained in the chamber after firing and were explelled when the next round was fed.
(FTR, they also used an unusual and expensive propellant.)

Also, "only" needing a special material that's used exclusively for creating ammunition... that's not fundamentally different from "only" needing primers.

[Broomstick]

Also, we want to minimize negative media about the safety concerns of untested firearms and the inevitable suggestion that government agencies are necessary protect us from ourselves.

I don't need government to protect me from myself, I need government to protect me from other people.