Texas Creationist Schooling.

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Ahriman238
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4854
Joined: 2011-04-22 11:04pm
Location: Ocularis Terribus.

Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Ahriman238 »

Funny thing in the US, school textbooks usually conform to the standards of the largest buyer, the state of Texas rather than produce one edition to get by the creationists and anti-evolutionists and one for the rest of us. The resulting compromises are one major issue with public school textbooks. Because our science books must first pass the gatekeepers, 7 middle-aged to elderly wealthy white guys in Texas.
NBC news wrote:By Will Weissert, Associated Press

AUSTIN, Texas — The Texas Board of Education used a late-night meeting to give preliminary approval to new science textbooks for classrooms across the state late Thursday night, but it blocked signing off on a major new biology text until alleged "errors" in lessons over the theory of evolution are checked by outside experts.

The vote just before midnight did not reject the biology book by Pearson, one of the country's largest publishers. But it delayed approval until three board members appoint a trio of outside experts to check concerns.

Textbook and classroom curriculum battles have long raged in Texas pitting creationists — those who see God's hand in the creation of the universe — against academics who worry about religious and political ideology trumping scientific fact. At issue this time are proposed high school biology books that could be used across the state at least through 2022.

State law approved two years ago means school districts can now choose their own books and don't have to adhere to a list recommended by the Board of Education — but most have continued to use approved books.

The issue is important nationally since Texas is so large that many books prepared for publication in the state also are marketed elsewhere around the country.

Publishers from around the country submitted proposed textbooks this summer, but committees of Texas volunteer reviewers — some nominated by socially conservative current and former Board of Education members — raised objections. One argued that creationism based on biblical texts should be taught in science classes, while others objected that climate change wasn't as settled a scientific matter as some of the proposed books said.

Pearson and many other major publishers weren't willing to make suggested major edits and changes, however.

That prompted some of the board's socially conservative members to call for delaying approval of the book because of concerns including how long it took Earth to cool and objection to lessons about natural selection because "selection operates as a selective but not a creative force."

Members outside the socially conservative bloc claimed their colleagues waited until the dead of night to try to impose ideological edits.

"To ask me — a business degree major from Texas Tech University — to distinguish whether the Earth cooled 4 billion years ago or 4.2 billion years ago for purposes of approving a textbook at 10:15 on a Thursday night is laughable," said Thomas Ratliff, a Republican from Mount Pleasant.

He added: "I believe this process is being hijacked, this book is being held hostage to make political changes."
Good of Pearson to refuse to compromise basic principle. Will be interesting to see who they appoint to investigate the truth of the book. Also, good on Ratliff.
"Any plan which requires the direct intervention of any deity to work can be assumed to be a very poor one."- Newbiespud
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Borgholio »

One argued that creationism based on biblical texts should be taught in science classes,
See that right there is the crux of the problem. I have no issue with people believing God created the world. But that's religion. It relies on faith. Religion has no place in a science classroom because science is not based on faith, it is based on observation and experimentation. The two do not mix well.

My favorite line of reasoning is this. With a science textbook, everything in there can be verified. You can perform experiments that others have done before and get the same results. Equations still are calculated the same. Observations are still relevant. In short, a science textbook is there for reference and convenience...so you don't HAVE to re-do every single fucking experiment every time...you just accept the already-verified results of other people's work and build on it.

With religion, the one single source for all their facts is the Bible. Take the Bible away and then what? They have nothing. They can't experimentally come to any of the conclusions or statements found in the bible. They can't prove God walked the Earth, they can't demonstrate there was a flood, the age of the Earth will NOT be 6,000 years, etc... Hell, they'd never even know Adam and Eve ever existed or that there was a devil.

If you have a book where not a single goddamn thing in it can be duplicated or re-created through observation and testing, then it has no place in a science class.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
CJvR
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2926
Joined: 2002-07-11 06:36pm
Location: K.P.E.V. 1

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by CJvR »

Didn't Texas have this fight before? And, IIRC, the cretinist lost rather badly since there were no scientific alternatives to the currently accepted theories on cosmology and evolution.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
User avatar
Kitsune
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3412
Joined: 2003-04-05 10:52pm
Location: Foxes Den
Contact:

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Kitsune »

I have read that text book companies have actually been saying "No" to inserting creationism in them.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Simon_Jester »

I can see why- they want to be able to sell to ignoramuses, but they also don't want to lose their own reputation for technical accuracy and professionalism.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Fiji_Fury
Padawan Learner
Posts: 348
Joined: 2006-09-11 12:42am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Fiji_Fury »

It's also conceivable that the influence of Texas review boards has been over-emphasized. Just because Texas is a large single market and has influence on the content of textbooks produced mainly for that market but then sold in other states/markets across North America does not mean that a company like Pearson may be willing to make alterations that could limit their sales in non-Texan markets.
blahface
Padawan Learner
Posts: 180
Joined: 2010-10-16 01:26am

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by blahface »

I wonder why there hasn't been a movement similar to Wikipedia for academics. College professors in their spare time could compile their own school text books and allow schools to print them for free. It would be like Khan Academy on a larger scale.
User avatar
CJvR
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2926
Joined: 2002-07-11 06:36pm
Location: K.P.E.V. 1

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by CJvR »

Kitsune wrote:I have read that text book companies have actually been saying "No" to inserting creationism in them.
Hardly surprising, they do have a reputation to uphold - and a market outside the Texas cretinists. Selling on the biggest market would be nice, but not if you can't sell anywhere else. I wonder how long it will be before we get some nice Christian publisher producing biblical correct textbooks exclusively for the Texas market.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Simon_Jester »

blahface wrote:I wonder why there hasn't been a movement similar to Wikipedia for academics. College professors in their spare time could compile their own school text books and allow schools to print them for free. It would be like Khan Academy on a larger scale.
Probably certification issues. The major publishers can (not without reason) argue that the Wikitextbooks are inferior, that they have not been vetted for compliance with the latest rigorous curriculum standards*, that there's no one to take personal responsibility for assuring the accuracy of the contents, and so on.

*BIG issue in math and English, where most of the country is currently moving to the national Common Core curriculum standards...
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Wing Commander MAD
Jedi Knight
Posts: 665
Joined: 2005-05-22 10:10pm
Location: Western Pennsylvania

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

Simon_Jester wrote:
blahface wrote:I wonder why there hasn't been a movement similar to Wikipedia for academics. College professors in their spare time could compile their own school text books and allow schools to print them for free. It would be like Khan Academy on a larger scale.
Probably certification issues. The major publishers can (not without reason) argue that the Wikitextbooks are inferior, that they have not been vetted for compliance with the latest rigorous curriculum standards*, that there's no one to take personal responsibility for assuring the accuracy of the contents, and so on.

*BIG issue in math and English, where most of the country is currently moving to the national Common Core curriculum standards...
Another concern would the academics themselves. Just because a person is an academic doesn't mean they don't have their own biases and what not. At least with the current system I assume there is some form of pier review occurring, though how rigorous that is I couldn't say. I imagine this might be particularly problematic with History.
User avatar
Ahriman238
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4854
Joined: 2011-04-22 11:04pm
Location: Ocularis Terribus.

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Ahriman238 »

And a not inconsiderable portion of a teacher's time is taken up with grading, paperwork, research, meetings and sometimes even trying to have a life outside of work. Assembling textbooks is a huge and time-consuming process, maybe slightly less so in science. You have to consider all the elements you want in the book, their appropriateness for that age and estimated ability to comprehend, the order and oh look! 600+ of the people involved in the project disagree completely with you, I'm sure we can work this out in a quick, efficient, reasonable and fair manner instead of bellowing at each other and waving our degrees around. Now in History or English we have to consider cultural and political sensibilities too.

Then there's certification and review. Then there's getting the word out and somehow we have to pay for publishing. Many teachers are not going to work on this without some financial incentive, less if we all have to chip in for a limited print run. And after all that, it will still be a pain convincing anyone to actually use the books, a lot of administrators have an ingrained distrust of free goods and services, surely if they were of comparable quality to the books they buy, we'd charge just slightly less than our competitors?

So we tend to get the books that get ordered for us by the administration (at least in MA public schools) and print out anything supplementary we'd want from the web, where some resources are available.
"Any plan which requires the direct intervention of any deity to work can be assumed to be a very poor one."- Newbiespud
User avatar
Wicked Pilot
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 8972
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm

Re: Texas Creationist Schooling.

Post by Wicked Pilot »

CJvR wrote:Didn't Texas have this fight before? And, IIRC, the cretinist lost rather badly since there were no scientific alternatives to the currently accepted theories on cosmology and evolution.

Yes, it goes in cycles. One year it's the science books up for review and we had to fight the creationist. The next year it's the health books, and we had to fight the abstinence only'ers. Then the next year it's the history books, and we had to fight the Christian Nation people. And then it goes back again to the science books, and around we go.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Post Reply