On the Chapel Hill shootings

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On the Chapel Hill shootings

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WSJ wrote:CHAPEL HILL, N.C.—A 46-year-old man was charged with three counts of murder in the shooting of three Muslims—a husband, wife and her sister. The killings were quickly condemned as hate crimes by the victim’s family and some Muslim groups, but a prosecutor in the case said it was too early to determine whether the violence was motivated by religion.

Craig Stephen Hicks was charged in the killing Tuesday of Deah Shaddy Barakat, 23, and his wife Yusor Mohammad, 21, of Chapel Hill, and Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19, of Raleigh. Each was found shot in the head and pronounced dead at the scene, a quiet condominium complex near the University of North Carolina campus. The young couple lived in the complex, and Mr. Hicks also lived there for about six years, according to police, public records and a family member.

Mr. Hicks turned himself in late Tuesday at a neighboring sheriff’s office in Chatham County, according to Chapel Hill police. Police said he was cooperating with investigators.

On Wednesday, he appeared briefly in a courtroom on the first floor of the Durham County Detention Facility. Mr. Hicks wore an orange jumpsuit and kept his back to the small courtroom crowd. He is being held without bond and was told a public defender would be appointed to represent him.

Chapel Hill police said Wednesday the crime was motivated by an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking. But relatives and some Muslim groups said they believed the shootings were motivated by religion.

Mohammad Abu-Salha, father of the two sisters, said his older daughter Yusor had told him that they had a neighbor who was harassing them because of their faith. Both of his daughters were faithful Muslims who wore traditional headscarves, Dr. Abu-Salha said.

“Our daughter on more than two occasions said this man was hateful. He was picking fights, knocking on their door,” said Dr. Abu-Salha, who practices psychiatry in Clayton, N.C. “She said, ‘Daddy, this man hates us for who we are.’ ”

Mr. Hicks’s lawyer couldn’t be immediately reached for comment.

Karen Hicks, who said she had been married to Mr. Hicks for seven years, told reporters Wednesday that he was not prejudiced. It “doesn’t matter what you look like, or who you are or what you believe, that’s one thing I do know about him,” she said.

Durham County District Attorney Roger Echols said in an interview after the hearing that it was “premature” to say whether additional hate-crime enhancements might be added to the murder charges. He said it was too soon to say what role religion played, if any. “We’ll see where the investigation takes us after reviewing the findings,” Mr. Echols said. “I haven’t ruled out anything or ruled in anything.”

On what appeared to be Mr. Hicks’s personal Facebook page, numerous statements were posted attacking religion in general, and he identified himself as an atheist.

One post says, “Given the enormous harm that your religion has done in this world. I’d say I have not only a right, but a duty, to insult it.” The post doesn’t mention any specific religion.

One photograph simply is a handgun in its holster. The added comment reads: “Yes, that is 1 pound 5.1 ounces for my loaded 38 revolver, its holster, and five extra rounds in a speedloader.”

Chief Chris Blue, of the Chapel Hill Police Department, said, “We understand the concerns about the possibility that this was hate motivated. We will exhaust every lead to determine if that is the case.”

Chapel Hill Councilman Lee Storrow said the killings sent shock waves through this college town of about 60,000, which has prided itself on its progressive politics and cultural tolerance. “Chapel Hill has really taken leadership in the state of ensuring that all people have the ability to live their lives here,” said Mr. Storrow, who is gay. “Unfortunately that reputation is tarnished when you have a moment like this happen.”

Thomas Brader, a friend of Mr. Barakat’s at the UNC School of Dentistry, said he couldn’t accept that the shooting was sparked by a parking dispute. “Deah would have sensibly solved any dispute with kindness and fairness,” said Mr. Brader. “He had told us about how his racist neighbor had been giving him trouble, but Deah always rose above and did not give that man the satisfaction of responding with anger.”

Mr. Barakat was a second-year student in the UNC School of Dentistry, and his wife had planned to begin her dental studies in the fall, according to UNC. Her sister was a sophomore at N.C. State University, majoring in environmental design in architecture, according to UNC.

Dr. Abu-Salha said his younger daughter Razan was living at home and had gone over to her sister’s to have fun. “She went to her death,” he said.

Dr. Abu-Salha and his wife moved to the U.S. in 1994 from Jordan, and both of his daughters were born in the U.S., he said. His son-in-law was the American-born son of Syrian immigrants, he said.

“We had more love and acceptance in America than hate,” Dr. Abu-Salha said. “We lived the American dream, and we were happy.”

Social media erupted Wednesday with expressions of sympathy for the slain young people and questions about whether the homicides were hate crimes.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil-liberties group based in Washington, D.C., called on authorities to move quickly to address public concerns.

“We urge state and federal law-enforcement authorities to quickly address speculation of a possible bias motive in this case,” executive director Nihad Awad said in a statement.

The crime-scene tape had already been removed on Wednesday afternoon in the small parking lot outside the brick, brown-shingle-roofed condominium building where the shooter and victims lived. Three small pots of pink flowers had been placed on the corner beside the unit where the couple lived.

Ripley Rand, U.S. attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina, said evidence gathered so far indicated the killings weren’t part of a larger conspiracy.

“We don’t have any evidence that this was part of an organized effort against Muslims,” he said at a news conference. “This appears, at this point, to have been an isolated incident.”

Federal officials are monitoring the homicide investigation but have not joined the effort, Mr. Rand said. “This is not a federal investigation yet.”

—Chelsey Dulaney contributed to this article.
For an interesting contextualisation of the issue, here's an op-ed.
Chapel Hill shooting and western media bigotry wrote:Three Muslim Americans were murdered on Tuesday in a University of North Carolina dorm room. The crime came on the heels of recent anti-Muslim attacks in Europe, carried out in apparent response to the January murders (committed by Muslims) of Charlie Hebdo journalists in Paris.

Western media outlets will likely frame the most recent perpetrator of what some speculate is an anti-Muslim crime in the same way they frame most anti-Muslim criminals - as crazed, misguided bigots who acted alone. If past coverage is any indication, there will likely be very little suggestion that the killer acted on the basis of an ideology or as part of any larger pattern or system.

But what if acts of anti-Muslim violence are consistent with at least some strands of current western ideology? What if Islamophobia has become so commonplace, so accepted, that it now represents a hegemonic system of thought, at least for relatively large pockets of people in some regions of the West?

Portraying Islam

Given what we know both about western media portrayals of Islam and Muslims on the one hand, and media effects and theory on the other hand, it would be foolish to dismiss western media representations as potential causal factors in anti-Muslim sentiment and crime. In fact, it is likely that anti-Muslim sentiment and crime are, at least in part, driven by one-sided, narrow, sensationalistic, and arguably bigoted western media portrayals of Islam and Muslims.

Many scholars - including Edward Said, Elizabeth Poole, Kai Hafez, Milly Williamson, Karim Karim, Teun Van Dijk, Kimberly Powell, and Dina Ibrahim, among others - have carried out academic studies examining western news coverage of Islam and Muslims.

Results suggest that Muslims are often portrayed in western news media as violent, backwards, fundamentalist and as threats to western civilisation. Western news coverage rarely highlights Islam except to show its possible relation to some atrocity, and Muslims are rarely mentioned in the context of news that is positive or benign.

Several studies have found that Muslims are portrayed as a homogenised body, lacking diversity and difference, with other analyses showing that news coverage of violent conflicts in the Muslim-majority world ignores context and circumstances, implying that Muslims are inherently violent and prone to conflict.

Inconsistent coverage

Other studies show inconsistent coverage of violent global and regional conflicts. When Christians, Jews and other non-Muslims are killed by Muslims, Islam is identified as playing a direct role. When Muslims are killed by Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims, however, the religious identity of the violent perpetrators is downplayed or ignored.

The ongoing conflict in Burma represents a good case-in-point. There has been little western news coverage on the recent persecution faced by Rohingya Muslims, who Human Rights Watch says have been subjected to mass killings; "crimes against humanity" and "ethnic cleansing".

Most recently, American television news networks have underlined a possible association between groups like al-Qaeda and ISIL, on the one hand, and Islamic religious doctrine on the other. Analysts claiming that "Islam is the problem" are given prominent platforms on news talk shows, while expert Muslim voices are systematically ignored.

Notably - and in spite of the fact that each act of Muslim-perpetrated terrorism is condemned strongly by all notable Islamic universities, Islamic scholarly councils, Islamic organisations, Muslim governments, and prominent Muslim jurists - regular cries are heard from media personalities complaining that Muslims do not condemn terrorism.

Prominent media personalities

Remarkably, some prominent media personalities systematically ignore Muslim condemnations of terrorism and then scream loudly that Muslims aren't condemning terror. Recently, both Rupert Murdoch and Piers Morgan claimed that it is primarily the responsibility of Muslims to root out and defeat the likes of al-Qaeda and ISIL.

Ignored in these analyses, of course, are the facts that Muslims in many Muslim-majority countries are often preoccupied, battling brutal dictatorships (which are often propped up by western nations, including the US), acute poverty, and regular bombing campaigns, all of which have helped create the conditions under which groups like al-Qaeda and ISIL - both of whom kill many more Muslims than non-Muslims - thrive.

In much of the western news discourse, the implication always seems clear; western societies should be suspicious of Muslims - all Muslims. Various pundits have taken to prominent media to offer up inflated estimates of the number of Muslim terrorists, with some suggesting that "peaceful" Muslims are, in the first place, a minority, and, more importantly, only peaceful because they have misunderstood the teachings of their inherently violent religion.

Always ignored is empirical evidence - of which there is no shortage - showing that Muslims aren't more violent than non-Muslims and that the overwhelming majority of Muslims believe terrorism to be an abomination.

The discussions carried out on television news programmes are not surprising given the structural problems associated with western news, and, importantly, the basic imbalance in sourcing. Why, for example, is Hamza Hansen, a top Muslim American public intellectual, not given a regular platform on news networks alongside anti-Islam bigots who have made careers out of dissecting Islamic textual sources they do not appear to be qualified to interpret?

Media portrayals

Importantly, western entertainment media portrayals also receive unfavourable scholarly evaluations. In the most comprehensive and systematic study of Hollywood movies done to-date, media scholar Jack Shaheen examined 100 years of Hollywood film representations of Arabs and Muslims.

He found that the majority of the 900 films he examined portrayed Arabs and Muslims as "brutal, heartless, uncivilised religious fanatics and money-mad cultural 'others' bent on terrorising civilised westerners, especially Christians and Jews".

No one could reasonably suggest that western news and entertainment media organisations should ignore negative portrayals of Muslims altogether. This would be unreasonable, especially given the importance of global terrorism and the involvement of Muslims in their fair share of negative events.

It is not unreasonable, however, to ask for contextualised accounts, fairer portrayals, critical examinations of the root causes of terrorism, an increase in Muslim voices, and news coverage that does more to separate ordinary Muslims from groups like al-Qaeda and ISIL.

According to the scholarly literature, the patterns of representation are fairly clear. Some fair, balanced news coverage and sympathetic entertainment media portrayals of Muslims notwithstanding, Islam and Muslims are generally portrayed negatively and stereotypically, including in some of the most powerful western media.

At one point do we begin to hold media organisations at least partly accountable for the anti-Muslim sentiment that is gripping many western nations?

Or, more importantly, when will western media organisations hold themselves to account?

Dr Mohamad Elmasry is an assistant professor in the Department of Communications at the University of North Alabama.

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Mr Bean »

For some context about the region Chapel Hill is the nicer, wealthy portion of North Carolina. Growing up Durham was where all the minorities had been selectively segregated via policy, influence and society. Raleigh was the capital and home to everyone out of state and Chapel Hill was were the wealthy had homes away from Raleigh and Durham lived. It's not quite as true now but Chapel Hill was very much for those with money and those working for those who had money with special effort to keep poor country folk out.

This was not a poor area, not a backwards or "southern" area where having a Hillary for Prez bumper sticker would get rocks thrown at your car, this is Chapel Hill, old money country making this shooting all the more unexpected.

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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by The Romulan Republic »

People in rich neighbourhoods can't be violent bigots? Your post seems rather classist.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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The Romulan Republic wrote:People in rich neighbourhoods can't be violent bigots? Your post seems rather classist.
No but they can and do get access to mental heath when they start going crazy. Someone notices and someone says something. Was he a bigot? Yes but there's a big difference between being a bigot someplace you have the Sheriff on your side and you can string up whatever group you don't like and walking into an condo murdering three people and then walking home before later trying to start covering things up.

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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Zaune »

In all fairness, how much actual evidence do we have that this was -for want of a better word- politically motivated, and not just a variation of the infamous Hedge Argument Murder?
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Its too early to tell whether this is religiously motivated or not. Its a case of he said, she said. The family will want to paint the dude in the worst possible light, though one can't really blame them considering what he did, and the fuckstain will say anything to make himself look better. He sounds like a douchebag bigot either way but it could well be he just killed them over a petty parking dispute, certainly people have been killed over even pettier things.

The article mentions the one sided portrayal of Muslims in Western pig dog media. Its right to, its rare to hear about Muslims working to fight terrorism, build schools, work together with other religions at conferences, or when they open hospitals.

Of course the same is true for most groups in the media. You only hear about atheists when a militant atheists does or says something stupid. You only hear about Christians when one murders a baby killer doc (clearly babies need to learn how to fight back, the NRA should arm them) and not their outreachs to the homeless or various soup kitchens or food pantrys. You can't avoid hearing about cops when they murder a black person and with some hunting you can read about when they murder the mentally ill, never when they save lives or try to work with youths to keep them out of trouble.

This is understandable. People want to hear the fucked up shit, the horrible things, and the tragedies. Sad to say but most people watching the news or reading the newspaper (as if people still read the dead trees, its so passe', we ain't in Flintstones times anymore) find the salacious shit interesting, its what sells and thus to many its seems like Muslims, atheists, Christians, gun owners, environmentalists, Cops, gun haters and anyone else who makes then news to be total shitbags as a whole.

Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians also seems like shitbags as a whole but that might be a case of a broken clock being right.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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People are just assuming because the victims were Muslim it must be a hate crime. It could be of course, but I fail to see why its a nationally reported possibility based on the circumstances we know right now.

Well not really, its a headline because it will draw clicks and views and every conceivable talking head out there is busy booking hours so they can talk about how this is or is not a hate crime for the next week. Gotta pay the bills.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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The possibility exists that his motive for his anger was the parking dispute, but that it may not have escalated to "executing the whole family" if not for his racial prejudices. It's entirely possible that if he'd been in an argument with anyone else, he may have settled the matter without serious violence, because he wouldn't have dehumanized them.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Zaune »

Maybe, but it's equally possible he was simply as mad as a sackful of starving weasels and would've gone off on anyone the same way.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Lagmonster wrote:The possibility exists that his motive for his anger was the parking dispute, but that it may not have escalated to "executing the whole family" if not for his racial prejudices. It's entirely possible that if he'd been in an argument with anyone else, he may have settled the matter without serious violence, because he wouldn't have dehumanized them.
How many people are murdered for non racial prejudicial reasons in in the US every year against those who are murdered over racial prejudice of all races combined? Tell me what exactly, besides the victims being Muslim, piques your interest regarding motive? Some slur heard muttered? Some post on his Facebook? Should Muslims be specifically less at risk for murder based on that qualifier (being Muslim) alone?

There is zero reason to jump to racial prejudice here. This was a headline because it was a triple homicide, and then some media pundit noticed they were all Muslim and predictably manipulated audiences with that fact. It should shock nobody that related people living in a dwelling are all the same religion, but its apparently special in this case.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Patroklos wrote:People are just assuming because the victims were Muslim it must be a hate crime. It could be of course, but I fail to see why its a nationally reported possibility based on the circumstances we know right now.

Well not really, its a headline because it will draw clicks and views and every conceivable talking head out there is busy booking hours so they can talk about how this is or is not a hate crime for the next week. Gotta pay the bills.
Hicks, the shooter, is a raving anti-muslim bigot, that's what one can see from his ravings in the social media and he's member of a society where hate, prejudice and violence against Middle-Eastern people is accepted and lauded (see American Sniper or 300). Maybe, just maybe this is newsworthy because it shows the consequences of carefree hatemongering?
Zaune wrote:Maybe, but it's equally possible he was simply as mad as a sackful of starving weasels and would've gone off on anyone the same way.
You do know that this is pure and unadulterated ableism, right?
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Metahive wrote: Hicks, the shooter, is a raving anti-muslim bigot, that's what one can see from his ravings in the social media and he's member of a society where hate, prejudice and violence against Middle-Eastern people is accepted and lauded (see American Sniper or 300). Maybe, just maybe this is newsworthy because it shows the consequences of carefree hatemongering?
I have read quite a few articles today and have seen zero references to the social media you reference. Links?

Also, your American Sniper and 300 exist so we can assume any Muslim murder in the Us is racial motivated comment was good for a chuckle. Not sure if serious.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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So far it looks like it was over parking spaces. No, seriously, and if you've ever encountered an apartment complex parking nazi it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Link
The man accused of shooting and killing three people near the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill was studying to be a paralegal and had multiple run-ins with neighbors over parking, according to various media reports.

Craig Stephen Hicks, 46, was arrested Tuesday after allegedly shooting newly married couple Deah Barakat and Yusor Mohammad and Mohammad’s sister, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha. All three were Muslim.

Police have said that the preliminary investigation suggests the killings stemmed from a dispute over parking, but the victims’ families and others have called for the crime to be investigated as a hate crime, which police say is part of their probe.

Little is known about the alleged shooter, but his social media activity may help to fill in some of the blanks.

Craig Stephen Hicks identified himself on Facebook as an atheist and ridiculed different religions, including Christianity and Islam. He also put up a post in which he appeared to identify as an ally of the LGBTQ community.
Except for being the kind of guy that shoots people over parking spaces, he actually sounds like he'd fit right the fuck in around here.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Zaune »

Called it.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Metahive wrote:Hicks, the shooter, is a raving anti-muslim bigot, that's what one can see from his ravings in the social media and he's member of a society where hate, prejudice and violence against Middle-Eastern people is accepted and lauded (see American Sniper or 300). Maybe, just maybe this is newsworthy because it shows the consequences of carefree hatemongering?
Riddle me this, would your panties be in such a twist over this shooting if the victims had been Christians? Because the shooter's actual facebook page says he's an atheist who makes fun of Christianity as well as Islam. So would you be all fired up for this to be a hate crime is the victims were of a different religion? I really want to know, because I'd like to figure out if even googled anything about the crime itself to learn why it is the cops aren't investigating a hate crime, if you simply heard about the crime through some bullshit second-hand social media twattery (e.g. twitter), or if you only really give a shit because the victims were brown and the shooter was white?

Goddamn, now I'm posting in N&P again. Fuck.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/11/ ... .html?rh=1
[...]The women’s father, Dr. Mohammad Abu-Salha, who has a psychiatry practice in Clayton, said regardless of what prompted the shooting Tuesday night, Hicks’ underlying animosity toward Barakat and Abu-Salha was based on their religion and culture.

It was execution style, a bullet in every head,” Abu-Salha said. “This was not a dispute over a parking space; this was a hate crime. This man had picked on my daughter and her husband a couple of times before, and he talked with them with his gun in his belt. And they were uncomfortable with him, but they did not know he would go this far.”

Abu-Salha said his daughter, who lived next door to Hicks, wore a Muslim head scarf and told her family a week ago that she had “a hateful neighbor.”

“Honest to God, she said, ‘He hates us for what we are and how we look,’ ” he said.[...]
You know, I don't think he would have calmly walked into his victim's homes and blown them away if they had been white atheists. If he the deed had occured in a spur of the moment fit of anger. then I might buy the "parking dispute" excuse, but this was premeditated murder. I hope you ain't starting to tell me that parking disputes in the good ol' US of A regularly lead to murder.

But why am I even talking? Y'all already decided that race and religion played absolutely no role whatsoever and I am just some stupid SJW or something that must be put in his place.
Because the shooter's actual facebook page says he's an atheist who makes fun of Christianity as well as Islam.
So what? Sam Harris criticises Christianity as well as Islam too, but he still fantasizes about nuclear extermination only about the latter. Has Hicks killed or maimed any white Christians or Atheists lately?
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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No metahive, you don't get to BS your way out of your lies.

I directly asked you to post your source about social media, whatever organization you think he was a member of, and all the rest. Put up or shut up.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

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Patroklos wrote:No metahive, you don't get to BS your way out of your lies.

I directly asked you to post your source about social media, whatever organization you think he was a member of, and all the rest. Put up or shut up.
I concede that part (the raving bigot part, not that he's hostile towards religion), it seems I trusted the wrong sources. It does however show him as a major gun-fetishist, which is another can of worms.

However I don't think it matters. The guy had no previous criminal record and the first victims just so happen to belong to a group that's the boogeyman de jour. Then we have the quotes by the father and the neighbors that Hicks was behaving threateningly and hatefully towards them. I can't and won't just rule out that there's more to it than just a spat about a parking space.

You don't just murder people, multiple people, over a parking dispute out of the blue.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Patroklos »

So do Muslims have some special right to be less of a target for murder than other Americans? Should I go out of my way to murder a non Muslim first even if my beef happens to be with a Muslim to make you happy? What's the murder rate for Muslims in the US? Are all of them to be assumed hate crimes? Is any non white victim of a white murderer to be a target of a hate crime? Does that work for any other race/ethnicity combination? Or maybe an atheist killing an Orthodox Jew? An atheist killing a shake holding Pentecostal? Would that get your auto hate crime assumption?

Also most murders are not serial, so a victim is not only overwhelming likely to be someone's first but also their only target. This tells us nothing about someone's motivations. And yes, murders happen over mundane shit all the time. Most murders actually as a guess.

Let's be honest here. You heard white guy killed non white guy and you just jumped to racism. You don't need to manufacture some shoehorned BS to explain yourself, that's just your gut reaction so you went with it. And the media knows this and played you like a fiddle, which is the only reason why this murder is a national headline over the dozens of others that happened that week. Including other multiple homicides.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Edi »

There was a good piece on Salon.com earlier about the profile of lone wolf murderers in the US and the majority of them are middle aged white males with obsessive grievances and often a fetish for guns, regardless of their ideology. This one happened to target Muslims, some of them target others, but the basic profile is always similar.

That article is worth a read.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Mr. Coffee »

Metahive wrote:http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/11/ ... .html?rh=1
[...]The women’s father, Dr. Mohammad Abu-Salha, who has a psychiatry practice in Clayton, said regardless of what prompted the shooting Tuesday night, Hicks’ underlying animosity toward Barakat and Abu-Salha was based on their religion and culture.

It was execution style, a bullet in every head,” Abu-Salha said. “This was not a dispute over a parking space; this was a hate crime. This man had picked on my daughter and her husband a couple of times before, and he talked with them with his gun in his belt. And they were uncomfortable with him, but they did not know he would go this far.”

Abu-Salha said his daughter, who lived next door to Hicks, wore a Muslim head scarf and told her family a week ago that she had “a hateful neighbor.”

“Honest to God, she said, ‘He hates us for what we are and how we look,’ ” he said.[...]
So fucking what? The victim's dad says it's a hate crime because... He says so. Seriously, show some actual evidence to back that this was actually a hate crime. How about that "social media" evidence you lied about, Meta?

Metahive wrote:You know, I don't think he would have calmly walked into his victim's homes and blown them away if they had been white atheists. If he the deed had occured in a spur of the moment fit of anger. then I might buy the "parking dispute" excuse, but this was premeditated murder. I hope you ain't starting to tell me that parking disputes in the good ol' US of A regularly lead to murder.
I said the shooter's facebook says that the man himself self identified as an athiest. I specifically asked you if you would be this outraged had the victims been christians. I then asked you if you really only give a shit about the shooting in the first place because the shooter was white and the victims aren't (Pick up the phone, because I fucking called it!). Now you're backpeddling with some bullshit about how (in your opinion, whcich is shit, btw), this had to be a hate crime because he wouldn't have done it if they were athiests.

Metahive wrote:Y'all already decided that race and religion played absolutely no role whatsoever and I am just some stupid SJW or something that must be put in his place.
No, I'm doing this because you made specific claims and couldn't back it up when asked to do so, can't answer a direct question to save your fucking life, and when shown a source that proves your claim wrong compound your whole-grain stupid by posting the victim's father saying the exact same bullshit you just go called out on. Also, I think you're an overly sensitive wuss with a chapped ass, but that's really just my opinion (and this thread makes for pretty good evidence to back the claim).

So what? Sam Harris criticises Christianity as well as Islam too, but he still fantasizes about nuclear extermination only about the latter. Has Hicks killed or maimed any white Christians or Atheists lately?
So basically what you're saying is that this is a hate crime simply because the victims were not white and/or you wouldn't be at all outraged had the victims been, say, white and Catholic. Gotcha. You don't actually give a fuck about if it was an actual hate crime or not, you just want to wave a cause about and act butthurt.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Channel72 »

So it looks like this likely isn't a hate crime, which is relieving a bit ...

I'm seriously surprised we haven't seen more anti-Muslim hate crimes in the US actually. The fact that it seems to be such a rare occurrence, in the face of an overwhelming media onslaught depicting wave after wave of Islamist violence, gives me some hope for Americans.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by mr friendly guy »

Metahive wrote: So what? Sam Harris criticises Christianity as well as Islam too, but he still fantasizes about nuclear extermination only about the latter. Has Hicks killed or maimed any white Christians or Atheists lately?
So can you quote Harris saying this. And no, not some third party strawman of his views. Quote his relevant essay/chapter of a book etc. Because AFAIK Harris is laying out a scenario where Islamic fundamentalists could get control of nukes and use them, necessitating the usual nuclear response when someone else with nukes attacks the US.
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by Grumman »

Edi wrote:There was a good piece on Salon.com earlier about the profile of lone wolf murderers in the US and the majority of them are middle aged white males with obsessive grievances and often a fetish for guns, regardless of their ideology. This one happened to target Muslims, some of them target others, but the basic profile is always similar.

That article is worth a read.
Not really. It relies on studies that cut their data so finely that it ceases to have any meaning. For one glaring example, the Homegrown Extremism study omits the beltway sniper attacks in their statistics despite that single incident killing almost half as many people as all the right-wing attacks combined (17 to 39).
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Re: On the Chapel Hill shootings

Post by mr friendly guy »

In a country where a man shoots a kid for walking on his carefully tended lawn, its not unbelievable that some whack job would kill people over a parking dispute.
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