Bali 9 update

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mr friendly guy
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Bali 9 update

Post by mr friendly guy »

Looks like after all this farce Indonesia is going to execute the ring leaders of the Bali 9

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-28/b ... ns/6428222
Bali Nine pair Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran 'dignified' ahead of executions
By Indonesian correspondent George Roberts and staff
Updated 5 minutes ago

The families of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have made an eleventh hour plea for the lives of the two men ahead of their executions tonight, after "tough and dark" hours saying their final goodbyes.

Michael Chan said both his brother and Sukumaran are "dignified" ahead of the executions, which he said amount to "cruel, undignified torture".

"I saw today something that no other family should ever have to go through," he said.

"Nine families inside a prison saying goodbye to their loved ones.

"To walk out of there and say goodbye for the last time, it is torture."

Raji Sukumaran pleaded with president Joko Widodo for clemency for her son and Chan.

"I won't see my son again and they are going to take him tonight and shoot him and he is healthy and he is beautiful and he has a lot of compassion for other people," she said.

"I am asking the government not to kill him, please president, please don't kill him today.

"Call off the execution."

Joining calls for clemency, Sukumaran's brother, Chintu, said the execution of the nine prisoners on Nusakambangan prison island would do little to address the drug problem in Indonesia.

"We spent the last few hours with my brother ... we did talk about the death penalty and he knows this is just a waste," he said.

"He knows this is not going to solve anything with drugs.

"I ask the president to please show mercy.

"Please don't let my mum and my sister have to bury my brother."

Chan and Sukumaran vow to take care of other prisoners

Despite the fate awaiting the pair, Chintu said his brother and Chan were taking care of the other prisoners due to be executed tonight.

"Myu has told us that he is going to be strong and him and Andrew will take care of the other seven people and he is worried for Mary Jane [Veloso, another prisoner due to be executed tonight] and her family as well," he said.

"We still have hope right up until the last second that the president will see each of these people are individuals, as people with families that love them and show mercy."

In tears and holding on to her brother for support, Brintha Sukumaran pleaded with Mr Widodo for clemency.

"Please don't do this to my brother," she cried.

"I beg you please, please don't take my brother from me."

Family members returned from today's visits with more paintings done by Sukumaran.

One of them depicted a heart with an inscription on the back that read: "Satu hati, satu rasa di dalam cinta." (One heart, one feeling in love.)

It had been signed by all nine prisoners on death row.

Pair denied spiritual support in final moments

The pair were this afternoon denied their right to spiritual support in the final moments before their executions.

Indonesian law stipulates that where the death penalty is applied, condemned prisoners are allowed a religious counsellor in the final moments before they are shot by firing squad.

It is their only support in the last moments of life and the religious cleric of their choosing can also witness the death penalty being carried out.

But the ABC has been told that that has been denied to Chan and Sukumaran.

The two pastors nominated by the drug smugglers to be their final support were denied access to their island prison today.

The Indonesian attorney-general is expected to hold a press conference after the executions.

A group of family and friends who embarked at Cilacap for the first trip to the Nusakambangan today were mobbed by media, with Sukumaran's sister needing to be carried through as photographers pressed in.

An ambulance carrying nine coffins arrived at the ferry terminal shortly afterwards for the short trip to the island.

Brandis appeals for stay until court case is heard

Attorney-General George Brandis has appealed to his Indonesian counterpart to stay the executions until proceedings underway in the country's Constitutional Court and Judicial Commission have been completed.

A preliminary hearing of the Constitutional Court has been scheduled for May 12, which Senator Brandis said is relevant to the cases of Chan and Sukumaran.

"On 25 April 2015, I wrote again to Indonesian attorney-general Prasetyo regarding the cases of the two Australian men facing the death penalty, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran," Senator Brandis said in a media statement.

"This was the third occasion on which I have appealed to the Indonesian attorney-general.

"I also understand that the Judicial Commission intends to interview the two men in relation to its investigation into bribery allegations in the original trial.

"Respectfully, the Australian Government calls on the president and attorney-general of Indonesia to stay the executions until the Constitutional Court and Judicial Commission proceedings are completed.

"It would be a terrible outcome if rulings or findings in either of these proceedings called into question executions which have already been implemented and are irrevocable."

A lawyer for two men, Peter Morrissey, said the investigation would only be useful if Chan and Sukumaran were able to take part.

"They'd better not be dead if Indonesia's got the rule of law," Mr Morrissey said.

"You don't kill the prisoners while there's still a court case that could affect their lives.

"So we're very much hoping they'll see sense about that."

Crowds are building in Sydney's Martin Place ahead of vigil for Chan and Sukumaran.

Mercy Campaign co-founder Brigid Delaney said many of their supporters are very upset.

"People want to come together, there's a lot of very distressed people who've been long-term supporters of the campaign and the guys and I think to be together on a night like this is very important," she said.
Australia has already threatened Indonesia if they go through and execute the pair. Yeah that would really show the Indonesians hur hur hur.

At least some in the Australian media have pointed out the hypocrisy of whining about how bad capital punishment is, yet we were not only quiet, but supportive when Indonesia executed Amrozi, aka the smiling assassin who laughed at the fact he murdered 88 Australians in a terrorist attack and then turned into a chickenshit coward when the Indonesians were about to shoot him.

This piece encapsulates what I mean by hypocrisy
Are we that parochial that a kangaroo and emu on the front cover is the difference between getting involved and standing on the sidelines?

To date, more than 100 federal politicians have written letters to the Indonesian ambassador, imploring its Government to show mercy and commute their death sentences.

Clearly, it doesn’t take an abacus to work out how many were penned to try to stop the firing squad for the Bali Bombers?

Then-prime minister John Howard said he “couldn’t find it in his heart to publicly ask the Indonesian Government to save the lives of the people who murdered 88 Australians”.

Fortunately, the 8.3kg of heroin being smuggled by the Bali Nine never made it here, so we don’t have to guess as to how many Aussies could have died on the end of a needle.

But, we do know that for both Chan and Sukumaran, the Bali misadventure was not their first run, so we can only guess at how many young lives their actions had already affected.

Ironically, at the time of Mr Howard’s comments, his then-opposition counterpart Simon Crean said, “fact is, the crime was committed on Indonesian soil and Indonesian courts have handed down the death penalty”.

Perhaps we found it easy to recognise Indonesia’s sovereignty back then because it was Indonesians who were being shot to death.

Certainly there were no hysterical calls for boycotts or trade sanctions as there has been over the past week.

Or to publicly condemn the actions of Indonesia’s President Joko Widodo, as Sydney shock-jock Alan Jones called for on the national broadcaster.

Jones thought the power of the green and gold was vastly superior to how they choose to run their own country, saying; “It may be their system but they’re our people”.

He went on to suggest that the President be reminded of our previous generosity and somehow, retrospectively this be directly linked to the fate of two drug smugglers.

“Someone has to get on the phone to this bloke and say, well you do what you like but we gave you a billion dollars when you were hit by the tsunami”, he said.

Using Jones’ logic, I would expect Tony Abbott to jump on the blower to the Chinese Premier and threaten to withhold all iron ore exports as a protest over their use of the death sentence.

After all, as our No. 1 trading partner with a $150 billion annual relationship, we should be grossly offended and react strongly anytime they practise capital punishment, shouldn’t we?
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Grumman »

I, for one, will be glad to be rid of them. They were trafficking in one of the most addictive, most destructive drugs around, and I'm not going to shed any tears when they are executed for destroying lives for their own profit. The only reason I would oppose their execution is if there was any question of their guilt, and I have heard no such argument.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by mr friendly guy »

That's my view as well.

I do want to draw attention to the hypocrisy involved. If we simply said some crimes like terrorism deserves the death penalty and some crimes don't, then we can certainly have a debate along those lines. However what we have done is say capital punishment is bad period, but we only apply it when
a. Its done to our citizens
b. When the person being executed hasn't harmed our citizens (yet).
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I am completely against the death penalty, and I think people should be consistent about that.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Flagg »

Yeah, I'm opposed to the death penalty and I don't think these morons should be killed, especially over something as small and petty as drug smuggling. But they broke Indonesian law knowing full well they were breaking Indonesian law. So fuck 'em? I find it more amusing that the Australians are so cross when they effectively execute refugees by refusing them entrance and letting ships full of refugees and migrants (including women and children) languish off their coast (at least that's my understanding, if wrong, please correct me) so they have about as much moral authority as a professional illegal organ harvester.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The Aussie's hypocrisy is deeper than that. Every article I've seen says that the Australian government is only pleading for the lives of the two condemned Aussies, not the other seven. Surely if they oppose the death penalty in this case they should be appealing for clemency for all nine?

Anyhow. On these nine traffickers, I really don't care for them. They knew the law and the penalties and took their chances. And they lost. Cry me a fucking river. And the relatives pulling out the painfully cliched "he's so full of love and compassion" line. If he was so full of compassion he wouldn't have decided to start trafficking heroin.
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Re: Bali 9 update

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Eternal_Freedom wrote:The Aussie's hypocrisy is deeper than that. Every article I've seen says that the Australian government is only pleading for the lives of the two condemned Aussies, not the other seven. Surely if they oppose the death penalty in this case they should be appealing for clemency for all nine?
The other seven aren't being executed.
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Re: Bali 9 update

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The Romulan Republic wrote:I am completely against the death penalty, and I think people should be consistent about that.
Agreed. Wouldn't mind seeing them get heavy prison sentences though.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Agreed. Actually, I think that, under some circumstances at least, life in prison is an appropriate sentence for drug traffickers.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Grumman wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:The Aussie's hypocrisy is deeper than that. Every article I've seen says that the Australian government is only pleading for the lives of the two condemned Aussies, not the other seven. Surely if they oppose the death penalty in this case they should be appealing for clemency for all nine?
The other seven aren't being executed.
From the OP quoted article, just the first reference that I came across:

"Joining calls for clemency, Sukumaran's brother, Chintu, said the execution of the nine prisoners on Nusakambangan prison island would do little to address the drug problem in Indonesia."

So, yeah, apparently all nine are for the firing squad. But the Aussies only care for two of them (even the two condemned Aussies show more concern for the other seven prisoners than the government does).
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Grumman »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:From the OP quoted article, just the first reference that I came across:

"Joining calls for clemency, Sukumaran's brother, Chintu, said the execution of the nine prisoners on Nusakambangan prison island would do little to address the drug problem in Indonesia."

So, yeah, apparently all nine are for the firing squad. But the Aussies only care for two of them (even the two condemned Aussies show more concern for the other seven prisoners than the government does).
Sorry, I get what you're saying now. I hadn't heard how many prisoners were due to be executed, so I assumed you were referring to the Bali Nine and not this other group of nine.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Grumman wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:From the OP quoted article, just the first reference that I came across:

"Joining calls for clemency, Sukumaran's brother, Chintu, said the execution of the nine prisoners on Nusakambangan prison island would do little to address the drug problem in Indonesia."

So, yeah, apparently all nine are for the firing squad. But the Aussies only care for two of them (even the two condemned Aussies show more concern for the other seven prisoners than the government does).
Sorry, I get what you're saying now. I hadn't heard how many prisoners were due to be executed, so I assumed you were referring to the Bali Nine and not this other group of nine.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, this is the "Bali 9," it's just that only two of them are Aussies. Unless the Indonesians have decided to carry out seven other executions that are unrelated at the same time that is, which I strongly doubt.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Grumman »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Unless I'm very much mistaken, this is the "Bali 9," it's just that only two of them are Aussies. Unless the Indonesians have decided to carry out seven other executions that are unrelated at the same time that is, which I strongly doubt.
These are the "Bali Nine". These are the ones who were executed, plus one who wasn't.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Huh. Ok I hadn't realized that, my apologies. But the point about hypocrisy still stands.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by mr friendly guy »

Well the deed has been done. Indonesia held off the execution of Filipino woman Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso (from among the 9) because new evidence has surfaced that she was framed. That is someone suspected of framing her has surrendered to police.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I wonder if any of the others were framed.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by mr friendly guy »

Don't know. But the Bali 9 were pretty blatant with shit loads of heroin strapped to their bodies all caught on film.

BTW Eternal Freedom. Most of the Bali 9 are serving long prison sentences in Indonesian jails. The Indonesian authorities only executed the ring leaders, Chan and Sukumaran.
http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-n ... 7325939931
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Yeah I hadn't caught that part. I kept hearing about the Bali 9, and then a note saying "nine prisoners to be executed," put two and two together and wound up with seven it seems.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by mr friendly guy »

Well there are claims we will review our $600 million foreign aid we give to Indonesia. Its our right, but boy does this look petty. Hey look, you executed 2 Drug Dealers so we will stop helping millions of innocent people get out of poverty. I am sure the moral calculus for that one is well explained. :wtf:

Of course I predict Indonesia would suddenly become even more uncooperative with the refugees using Indonesia as a base to get to Australia.
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Re: Bali 9 update

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This just says why people find it hard to take these anti-capital punishment side seriously, when they lionise drug dealers
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has described it as "odd" for an Australian university to announce scholarships in honour of executed drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

The Australian Catholic University was involved in the campaign for clemency and has announced it would recognise the two men by introducing scholarships in their memory.

The Vice Chancellor, Professor Greg Craven, released a statement explaining the reasoning for the university's decision.

"We did this because ACU is committed to the dignity of the human person, and that applies equally to all human beings: victims as well as to those who have been convicted of crimes," the statement said.
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Grumman »

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has described it as "odd" for an Australian university to announce scholarships in honour of executed drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
And when Tony Abbott thinks you're going too far, you know you've gone completely mad.
"We did this because ACU is committed to the dignity of the human person, and that applies equally to all human beings: victims as well as to those who have been convicted of crimes," the statement said.
Awesome. Can I get one named after me next?
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Re: Bali 9 update

Post by Joun_Lord »

If the University is making the scholarships in their name to try to help others get an education so they don't wind up smuggling drugs and getting BOOM headshot by some Indonesians, thats actually sounds good. Same with putting it up as a symbol of the "sanctity of Hugh Mann life", that cool too even if I don't personally agree with it. If they are honoring them like they are good people or did something noteworthy beyond being failures thats a completely different story. Whether or not you think those fools deserved the fate they received, very few can argue they were good people. Certainly weren't display "reformation, courage and dignity", the only thing decent from what I've read they did was call for a world wide ban on executions............right before they were executed for crimes they most certainly did commit, they ain't the A-Team. Thats like some 5 year old wanting a ban on spankings right before getting his ass tore up by a switch for being a little bastard. Kinda makes one doubt the sincerity of their motives.

Also those that are wondering why Austria is only pleading for the two Aussies, isn't that kinda their job? In their role of being an nationalist communistic facistitic nation of people, Australian citizens are what they are supposed they are supposed to care for, not citizens of every other country. Thats the job of those peoples countries or possibly the UN and the UN is the ones with the blue helmets doods while Australia has camo helmets so clearly Austria isn't the UN.

It would be like if a German citizen and his multicultural pals while in America decided to run some people over in their zeal to get some Bratwurst and David Hasselhoff CDs. Assuming they aren't shot by the cops before, while, or after being arrested they will go to jail. The German guys government of Germania will of course try to spring him, he is a German citizen. They probably won't try to spring his pals from like Portugal and Soviet Canukistan. Even if they did they probably won't get much traction because the two aren't their responsibility. They are the responsibility of Portugal and America's Hat.

I don't think, atleast I assume, countries can legally can do much of anything beyond ask pwetty pwease about the affairs on non-citizens in another country.

I mean Australia could have asked but were probably more worried about focusing all their efforts on their own people because they nationalistic racists or something, diluting their efforts of trying to save their own peoples lives by trying to save people they have no legal responsibility over would have made it even more likely the two Austrians would have been kilt. Now in hindsight we can say they were killed anyway but the Australians didn't know that at the time.

Or did they........?
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