Mass sexual assault in Cologne, including rape cases

[Thanas]

There are stamps in passports. Unless the passports were thrown away, of course, but since that itself leads to a bunch of problems for potential refugees, I heard that people tend to avoid doing that.

Nah, plenty of people throw away their passports or pretend to be of a different nationality. In any case, I very much doubt anyone of those assholes will ever see prison due to us having no tracking system in place.

[Purple]

There are stamps in passports. Unless the passports were thrown away, of course, but since that itself leads to a bunch of problems for potential refugees, I heard that people tend to avoid doing that. No hard statistics, though. And I am sure neither Italy nor Greece, nor Eastern European nations or even Austria want them "back", but if the person receives a prohibition to return to Germany and a one-way ticked to said nation, there is not much they can do to stop such a turn of events either (as border controls aren't there).

So basically you think it is morally acceptable to go to your ally and say "Here is a sex offender we don't want in our country. You HAVE to take them in." Am I the only one who thinks that is the exact opposite of sanity?

[Broomstick]

"Understanding how African and Asian men view and treat women in their own countries is crucial when dealing with the migrant crisis – because only when we understand their cultural practices can we help them to integrate. They need to understand that women are deemed equal to men in Western societies.

No, they're not. Well, maybe in theory but in practice there's still quite a bit of misogyny in the west. It's just better than in African/Asia/MENA, it's not what it should be (yet).

[Ralin]

So basically you think it is morally acceptable to go to your ally and say "Here is a sex offender we don't want in our country. You HAVE to take them in." Am I the only one who thinks that is the exact opposite of sanity?

Deportation does more or less require something like that. There are only so many options for where you can deport them to, and non-allies would tend to either run into the Catch-22 situation Thanas described or just not let them across the border.

I assume that whoever you deport them to is warned and has the option of further deporting them and/or imprisoning them or whatever.

[Purple]

Deportation does more or less require something like that. There are only so many options for where you can deport them to, and non-allies would tend to either run into the Catch-22 situation Thanas described or just not let them across the border.

I assume that whoever you deport them to is warned and has the option of further deporting them and/or imprisoning them or whatever.

So what you are saying is that instead of deporting them to a place they will die you intend to dump the problem on your allies forcing them to play hot potato until one of them gathers up the guts to do so? How is that a good thing?

[Grumman]

Deporting people from the First World is enough of a punisment, as I see it.

It's not just about punishment. I want people like this to be rendered physically incapable of reoffending, not just set free to victimise people we don't care about. Given that more drastic means of rendering them physically incapable of reoffending are off the table, that means locking them in a box for a decade or so.

[Ralin]

So what you are saying is that instead of deporting them to a place they will die you intend to dump the problem on your allies forcing them to play hot potato until one of them gathers up the guts to do so? How is that a good thing?

Well what exactly is your alternative? Lock them up for life? Probably not legally viable. Lock them up for however many years and then let them out to go about their business? Do you really want to create a precedent where engaging in public rape orgies makes it harder to kick someone out of a country? Because that seems like the sort of thing that could turn out badly!

Besides, if the assumption is that they're being deported to wherever the hell they came into Germany from then 'your allies' are the ones who foisted them on you in the first place.

[Purple]

Well what exactly is your alternative? Lock them up for life? Probably not legally viable. Lock them up for however many years and then let them out to go about their business? Do you really want to create a precedent where engaging in public rape orgies makes it harder to kick someone out of a country? Because that seems like the sort of thing that could turn out badly!

The way I see it you have these options:
1. Throw them back where they came from, even if it's right into the hands of ISIS.
2. Throw them back where they came from, even if it's right into the hands of ISIS but do so via a proxy in the form of what ever country eventually does it when the conga line of hot potato ends.

The difference is that in #2 you are putting up a pretense and dumping the PR problem on some other country. Where as in #1 you have to shoulder that burden your self. And of course the fact that by delaying and trying to weasel out of it you are making it easier for the person to get away or engage in repeat offenses. I do not think I need to tell you which of the two I see as more morally reprehensible and abhorrent.

Besides, if the assumption is that they're being deported to wherever the hell they came into Germany from then 'your allies' are the ones who foisted them on you in the first place.

1. They did not know what kind of person it was. What were they supposed to do? Read their mind?
2. That person refused to remain there. What were they supposed to do? Put him in a camp for life?

The way I see it the duty of any government is to its people first, its allies next and everyone else after that. And as regrettable as it is to send someone off to his death there are indeed going to be cases when this is the morally least bad option.

[Guardsman Bass]

Well, it's up to over 500 cases of assault, 40% of which were sexual assault:

The number of criminal cases committed during new year celebrations in the German city of Cologne has risen to 516 - 40% of which relate to sexual assault, police in the city say.

The figures are a big increase from the 379 cases police reported on Saturday.

Asylum seekers and illegal migrants from North Africa comprise the majority of suspects, police say.

The crime spree led to criticism of Chancellor Angela Merkel's open-door immigration policy.

That has resulted in 1.1 million asylum seekers going to Germany throughout 2015.

The new figures came as German authorities were urged to find out whether the series of New Year's Eve sexual assaults and robberies in Cologne were linked to similar crimes in other cities.

Justice Minister Heiko Maas told the Bild newspaper on Sunday that he was convinced the attacks were pre-arranged. "If such a horde gathers in order to commit crimes, that appears in some form to be planned,'' he said. "Nobody can tell me that this was not co-ordinated or prepared."

. . . .

Victims described chaos as dozens of sexual assaults and robberies were carried out with little apparent response from the authorities around Cologne station.

Similar attacks to those seen in Cologne were also reported in Hamburg and in Stuttgart on New Year's Eve. In Bielefeld, hundreds of men tried to force their way into nightclubs, Die Welt reported (in German).

Police said several women had alleged sexual assault.

On Friday, the chief of police for North Rhine-Westphalia was suspended. Wolfgang Albers had been accused of holding back information about the Cologne attacks, in particular about the origin of the suspects.

[cosmicalstorm]

As this story caught on news was released in Sweden that a similar attack back in August occurred at a music festival. Girls as young as 12 were molested and beaten en masse.
However the incident was censored both by media outlets and police. The police spokesperson specifically stated that they avoided reporting on the details because it might be good for the Sweden Democrat party.

The first story is from a right wing news site so take it with a grain of salt, the details have been confirmed by almost every other news outlet in Sweden so this can't be brushed of as some right wing slander piece.

On Saturday August 15th, the nationally acclaimed and outspoken feminist artist Zara Larsson headlined the youth festival ‘We Are Sthlm” with a crowded concert in Kungsträdgården in central Stockholm. Thousands of young people were in attendance to take part in the event during the last summer nights of the year.

But for an unknown number of young girls the festival soon became a nightmare. Hordes of young men pressed against young girls, fondled and tried to cop a feel over and under skirts, pants and shirts. There were severe sexual assaults happening right in front of the stage, where artists such as Larsson and rapper OIAM performed.

During a single night police and security guards had to intervene against around 90 younger males, but even adult men took part in the abuse, says an eye witness to Nyheter Idag. The eye witness has professional experience from working at the Stockholm Police Department as a psychologist.

The police officer tried to contact Dagens Nyheter several times: “They never called again”

The psychologist who knew of what had happened in Kungsträdgården contacted journalist Hanne Kjöller at Dagens Nyheter, by, among other things, e-mail on August 17. The psychologist says he specifically turned to Kjöller because he knew that she had previously written about controversial topics.

“She was very interested and listened until I told her that all the boys and men that were apprehended were young asylants (unaccompanied is the terminology used by Swedish authorities) from Afghanistan and Syria. I sensed that she changed the tone (of her voice). But she also said that she would contact the police”, he tells Nyheter Idag.

Kjöller got the phone number to one of the police officers who were on duty during the event in Kungsträdgården and could provide a recollection of the events. Nyheter Idag has talked with the police officer who Kjöller talked to in August, and he was eager to tell Dagens Nyheter about the massive cases of sexual assault against young girls in central Stockholm.

“She sent a text message to me once, early on, where she wrote that she was looking for me, she wanted to talk. After that, I tried to get in touch with her, but that was when things started to get awry. She answered sometimes, said she would get back to me. But it never amounted to anything. She was interested in it for half day or a day, then she wasn’t anymore”.

The officer explains that he worked for several evenings during this week in Kungsträdgården square. He tells of how he and his colleagues had to apprehend a large number of young men who sexually assaulted girls, in large part unaccompanied refugees from Afghanistan.
The police officer, who has worked as a police officer for over 20 years, emphatically states several times that the events in Kungsträdgården were systematic and extensive in number. This was what he wanted to tell Hanne Kjöller of Dagens Nyheter.

“We got in touch and talked briefly, and she said she would call back, which she did not. So I looked for her, she did not call back. I tried to reach her at another time, but I never heard back from her again. I called several times, cannot say exactly how many. It was over a three or four day period”.

“The editor at DN dismissed the story as SD falsity”

Time passes and a new year begins – it’s now 2016 and the brutal and massive sexual assaults against young girls that August evening in Kungsträdgården is completely unknown to the public.
But then something happens, a rumor that goes viral on blogs in Germany spreads to the so-called “alternative media” in Sweden. After a day, traditional media in both Germany and other European countries start to report on the same issue.

http://nyheteridag.se/exposing-major-pc ... stockholm/

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22067929.ab

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overgr ... ig-vidare/

[Simon_Jester]

To be quite frank, I do believe that there is nothing morally wrong with deporting refugees who commit serious crimes. If the refugee themself does not honor the obligations of a guest in their home country, the obligation of the host country to ensure that refugees are safe is impossible to enforce anyway. You can't make refugees safe if the other refugees are treating their fellow refugees like targets for criminal activity, after all. And if the criminal refugees are doing this to your own citizens, it's very likely they're also doing it to refugees.

So no one should be saying "we can't deport them, we have an obligation to keep them safe." Not that anyone really wants to say it, but a nation that finds itself legally obliged to not deport criminal refugees has... in my opinion, misinterpreted their ethical obligations.

There's a reason why even in ancient times the whole "guest" relationship was a two-way thing with mutual obligations that were binding on both parties. It's not practical or fair to create a situation where all the rights are on the guest's side and all the responsibilities are on the host's, or vice versa. And refugees are guests in the countries that admit them; it is a guest-host relationship created by desperate necessity on the guest's part, but it's still a guest-host relationship.

...

I also believe that any nation which actually believes in its obligation, and legally enshrines its obligation to admit refugees, would be prudent to learn from the present situation in Europe and create expandable infrastructure for tracking them. It's understandable that this would have been neglected by a lot of countries in the past decade or two, but still irresponsible.

[Edi]

As I said earlier, if the state does not actually address the issues with appropriate use of force to address the problem, people will take things into their own hands, as we are now seeing in Germany. It's not right, but I will be very surprised if this is the last incident of its kind rather than just the first of many.

From CNN:

(CNN)A group of 20 men attacked at least six Pakistani nationals in the German city of Cologne, with two hospitalized for their injuries, police said.

A man of Syrian descent was later attacked and injured by five men.

Two men have been detained following the Sunday attacks, Cologne police said.

Germany is reeling from the mob attacks in the center of the city in western Germany on New Year's Eve. Large numbers of women reported sexual assaults or robberies by gangs of men of Arab or North African appearance.

The number of criminal charges from the episode has risen to 516 -- 40% of which relate to sexual assaults, Cologne police said.

Other European cities experienced similar rashes of sex crime reports from New Year's Eve, with more than 50 similar incidents reported in the northern German city of Hamburg.

Cologne police have said 31 people, most of them North African or Middle Eastern countries, have been charged so far over the attacks. Of those, 18 have been identified as asylum seekers.

The crimes have sparked fierce public debate about the wisdom of German Chancellor Angela Merkel's liberal policies toward migrants, and unleashed a wave of anger toward authorities for their response to the assaults.

Sunday's attacks are the first time anger surrounding the incident has boiled over into reported assaults on minority groups.

On Saturday, protesters from groups opposed to immigration from Muslim countries took to the streets of Cologne, where they were met with left-wing counter-protests.

"Where were you on New Year's Eve?" one protester yelled at police. "Why didn't you protect those women?"

Right-wing groups threw beer bottles, firecrackers and stones at officers in riot gear. Cologne police responded with tear gas and water cannons.


Minister: Attacks 'coordinated and prepared'

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has condemned the attacks in Germany as "disgusting, criminal acts." But she did not back down on her commitment to welcome refugees who obey German laws and pledge to integrate into German society.

In an interview published in Germany's "Bild am Sonntag" newspaper Sunday, Justice Minister Heiko Maas expressed his view that the attacks were not opportunistic, but a premeditated and organized assault on women.

"No one can tell me that it wasn't coordinated and prepared," he told the newspaper. "My suspicion is that this specific date was picked, and a certain number of people expected. This would again add another dimension (to the offending)."

German news organization Spiegel Online reported last week that police kept encountering women and girls in tears on New Year's Eve, citing an internal federal police report.

"Women in company or who were on their own had to run the gauntlet through an inebriated mass of men," the police report read.

Groups of men prevented police from reaching people crying out for help, while the assailants threatened anyone who might try to identify them, the report said.

Cologne Police Chief Wolfgang Albers was fired Friday amid criticism of his department's handling of the violence, while Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker has been slammed for advising women to keep "more than an arm's length" away from unknown men in response to the assaults.

Reker later said the comments had been taken out of context.



Other attacks in Europe

Reports of other New Year's Eve attacks have emerged from elsewhere across Europe.

Police in Kalmar, Sweden, said Friday they had arrested two men described as refugees. The men, who have since been released on bail, are suspected in two of the 11 sexual harassment complaints received in the town on New Year's Eve, police spokesman Johan Bruun said.

Police are looking for 10 to 15 more suspects who allegedly encircled a group of women in Kalmar and groped them, Bruun told CNN.

In all, 16 females from ages 17 to 21 said they were molested, he said.

In Salzburg, an Austrian city on the German border, two men have been charged with sexually assaulting women on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day, police said in a statement.

A 23-year-old Syrian citizen was arrested in the city's Old Town section on New Year's Eve after sending fireworks in the direction of a 17-year-old student, police said. She was slightly injured in her abdomen. Further investigation revealed the suspect allegedly had sexually abused a 20-year-old from Bayern in the inner city before the fireworks incident, police said.

And in Zurich, Switzerland, six women told authorities they were "robbed from one side, (while) being groped ... on the other side" by groups of men, Zurich police said Friday.

And in Helsinki, Finland, police said they are investigating two possible criminal offenses related to New Year's Eve harassment centered around "a gathering of asylum-seekers."

Both the Zurich and Helsinki allegations became public well after the incidents took place.

CNN's Sara Mazloumsaki and Don Melvin contributed to this report.

[salm]

To be quite frank, I do believe that there is nothing morally wrong with deporting refugees who commit serious crimes. If the refugee themself does not honor the obligations of a guest in their home country, the obligation of the host country to ensure that refugees are safe is impossible to enforce anyway. You can't make refugees safe if the other refugees are treating their fellow refugees like targets for criminal activity, after all. And if the criminal refugees are doing this to your own citizens, it's very likely they're also doing it to refugees.

I don´t think we should throw people to the wolves. No matter what they´ve done. If a country is too unsafe for them we should not deport them. Like we dont´t deport/extratdite people to the USA if they face the death penalty there.
We can lock them up ourselves. That shouldn´t be too problematic.

Deporting people for serious crimes can be ok if the amount of danger they face isn´t extreme in the country they are deported, though. Such a system is allready in place. The points that are argued about are "what is considered a serious crime" and what is the definition of a "safe country".

If you deport too light handedly you might tear families appart where the only crime commited was that some idiot teenager stole a can of beer. That could easily lead to problems with the remainig family members. For example it could be more likely to mess up the siblings and turn them into idiots as well. You have to carefully balance this or else you might cause more harm than good. You have to find a good line for what is considered "serious" or else you´ll end up with nonsense similar to the nonsense the USA is dealing with its draconian punishment system.

[cmdrjones]

But Ray, this isn't a cultural norm from Syria. It's people being twats, and while I disagree with edi's internet tough guy act, he's right that such behaviour is not tolerated there either. Let them feel the weight of a German law book as for anyone who acts like that.

I'm not saying it's a cultural norm in Syria and Iraq to assault women so publicly. I don't think there is any culture that would tolerate such an act.

However, things like gender discrimination can have a massive impact on the investigation of such crime in those areas. An environment that is less willingly to take action or listen to women who have been sexually assaulted creates an environment where those men feel confident in getting away from the law.

Not acknowledging that cultures in certain regions tolerate a greater degree of abuse is only going to make any intergration efforts worse. The more you try and overly protect them, the more anger you will generate among the moderates.

It's not a cultural norm in syria or Iraq to assault en masse MUSLIM women... You just usually don't find crowds of women in Western dress hanging around without husbands

[Simon_Jester]

To be quite frank, I do believe that there is nothing morally wrong with deporting refugees who commit serious crimes. If the refugee themself does not honor the obligations of a guest in their home country, the obligation of the host country to ensure that refugees are safe is impossible to enforce anyway. You can't make refugees safe if the other refugees are treating their fellow refugees like targets for criminal activity, after all. And if the criminal refugees are doing this to your own citizens, it's very likely they're also doing it to refugees.

I don´t think we should throw people to the wolves. No matter what they´ve done. If a country is too unsafe for them we should not deport them. Like we dont´t deport/extratdite people to the USA if they face the death penalty there.

We can lock them up ourselves. That shouldn´t be too problematic.

The biggest problem is that this creates perverse incentives- In many ways even a prison in a civilized* First World nation is a more attractive place to live than, oh, Syria or Somalia. And if someone's serving a prison sentence, they cannot be sent home for other reasons... so you could easily create a situation where people commit crimes precisely to avoid any risk of being sent out of the country.
__________________________

*Please note that I have quite a few days when I do not consider the US to be a civilized country... [sighs]

Deporting people for serious crimes can be ok if the amount of danger they face isn´t extreme in the country they are deported, though. Such a system is allready in place. The points that are argued about are "what is considered a serious crime" and what is the definition of a "safe country".

Even a country like Syria is safe compared to an actual death sentence- most Syrians are still alive, and will live through the civil war.

And yes, this is a harsh thing to say. However, there are times when the law is, and has to be, harsh- because there cannot be justice in a given environment until and unless there is order. Public order has to be maintained, people have to know that there are certain minimum standards which people aspiring to civilization must obey regardless of circumstances.

If refugees are coming to escape violence, by all means let them escape violence and evil. But they cannot then export violence into the host nations- you cannot flee violence if there is violence in your heart.

If you deport too light handedly you might tear families appart where the only crime commited was that some idiot teenager stole a can of beer. That could easily lead to problems with the remainig family members. For example it could be more likely to mess up the siblings and turn them into idiots as well. You have to carefully balance this or else you might cause more harm than good. You have to find a good line for what is considered "serious" or else you´ll end up with nonsense similar to the nonsense the USA is dealing with its draconian punishment system.

I think that acts of willful, premeditated violence that cause meaningful injury against other humans should always be considered serious crimes for this purpose.

[madd0ct0r]

But Ray, this isn't a cultural norm from Syria. It's people being twats, and while I disagree with edi's internet tough guy act, he's right that such behaviour is not tolerated there either. Let them feel the weight of a German law book as for anyone who acts like that.

I'm not saying it's a cultural norm in Syria and Iraq to assault women so publicly. I don't think there is any culture that would tolerate such an act.

However, things like gender discrimination can have a massive impact on the investigation of such crime in those areas. An environment that is less willingly to take action or listen to women who have been sexually assaulted creates an environment where those men feel confident in getting away from the law.

Not acknowledging that cultures in certain regions tolerate a greater degree of abuse is only going to make any intergration efforts worse. The more you try and overly protect them, the more anger you will generate among the moderates.

It's not a cultural norm in syria or Iraq to assault en masse MUSLIM women... You just usually don't find crowds of women in Western dress hanging around without husbands

Bullshit. And or prove it.

[cmdrjones]

I'm not saying it's a cultural norm in Syria and Iraq to assault women so publicly. I don't think there is any culture that would tolerate such an act.

However, things like gender discrimination can have a massive impact on the investigation of such crime in those areas. An environment that is less willingly to take action or listen to women who have been sexually assaulted creates an environment where those men feel confident in getting away from the law.

Not acknowledging that cultures in certain regions tolerate a greater degree of abuse is only going to make any intergration efforts worse. The more you try and overly protect them, the more anger you will generate among the moderates.

It's not a cultural norm in syria or Iraq to assault en masse MUSLIM women... You just usually don't find crowds of women in Western dress hanging around without husbands

Bullshit. And or prove it.

nope... no western wear...



Still no women in tight dresses or bikinis....let's keep looking....



iraqi Kurds in Kobani.... still no chicks dressed for the beach ... or the club! Weird....

[cmdrjones]

"Understanding how African and Asian men view and treat women in their own countries is crucial when dealing with the migrant crisis – because only when we understand their cultural practices can we help them to integrate. They need to understand that women are deemed equal to men in Western societies.

No, they're not. Well, maybe in theory but in practice there's still quite a bit of misogyny in the west. It's just better than in African/Asia/MENA, it's not what it should be (yet).

Tu quoque

[madd0ct0r]

fucking idiot. Prove your assertation that the mode of dress (or being muslim or not) was important.

[K. A. Pital]

Mode of dress was irrelevant as female refugees - presumably also Muslim - were ruthlessly assaulted as well.

But good luck proving otherwise, cmdrjones.

[cmdrjones]

Update: the number of reported offenses is now over 200. Around three quarters are (also) sexual offenses.

Ouch. I think that does require action.

now we know communism objects at 200 sexual assaults....

Seriously though, aren't these women to be believed?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ntion.html

[cmdrjones]

Mode of dress was irrelevant as female refugees - presumably also Muslim - were ruthlessly assaulted as well.

But good luck proving otherwise, cmdrjones.

You're not selling this whole "we should let the refugees in because reasons" thing very well if the best you have is "HA! got ya, they rape their OWN women TOO you rapist hater!"

[cmdrjones]

fucking idiot. Prove your assertation that the mode of dress (or being muslim or not) was important.

See Above about them being equal opportunity rapists... I'll concede then, the refugees will rape anybody wearing anything.... therefore they MUST be allowed in!

[Crown]

I should post this because it seems that some people, just, don't, get it;



The open door policy of Merkel has allowed a massive number of (and I'm being extremely generous with the following colloquialism) "ultra-conservative" view points into a very liberal country. The 'sweep it under the rug' tactic of not being able to discuss these concerns prior to these people entering the country for fear of being labeled a 'Nazi' has simply not worked. Blow back is happening, and the right-wing across Europe are polling better.

Well done.

So the only road forward is a massive indoctrination and assimilation program (and good luck with that given the "stellar" success that France, the UK, Belgium, Sweden and Germany have done so far on this regard with earlier muslim immigrants) and some really hard work.

And just to be clear; no, not all asylum seekers share this view, in fact given the numbers above we can safely say in most cases the majority don't, however, the minority isn't 5% to 7% or something 'trivial', it can range from 20% to 40% (depending on which issue we're polling). I can't believe people are shocked.

And one last thing; these numbers were the same that Sam Harris and Bill Maher have been talking about for a year now, but given some fucking people can't accept objective fact, I've had to find a brown muslim woman to tell you these numbers so I can avoid the casual xenophobic slur as well.

[Crown]

As this story caught on news was released in Sweden that a similar attack back in August occurred at a music festival. Girls as young as 12 were molested and beaten en masse.
However the incident was censored both by media outlets and police. The police spokesperson specifically stated that they avoided reporting on the details because it might be good for the Sweden Democrat party.

The first story is from a right wing news site so take it with a grain of salt, the details have been confirmed by almost every other news outlet in Sweden so this can't be brushed of as some right wing slander piece.

<snip>

http://nyheteridag.se/exposing-major-pc ... stockholm/

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22067929.ab

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overgr ... ig-vidare/

The Guardian is running it now too (although it says the attacks occurred in 2014), no longer right-wing conspiracy blogs.