Fires in Israel

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-25/w ... ty/8056938

Israel wildfire roaring through Haifa started by 'politically motivated' arsonists, authorities say
Posted about an hour ago

Tens of thousands of people have been forced to evacuate their homes as fires raged throughout Israel for a third consecutive day.

Spreading quickly due to dry, windy weather, the fire raced through Israel's third-largest city Haifa, sending panicked residents fleeing from the area.

While there were no serious injuries, several dozen people were hospitalised for smoke inhalation.

In a rare move, Israel called up hundreds of military reservists to join overstretched police and firefighters and was making use of an international fleet of firefighting aircraft sent by a slew of countries.

The Haifa blaze was the most serious in a series of fires that have erupted across the country in recent days.

Residents of eight neighbourhoods in the northern city of Haifa were told to evacuate their homes on Thursday afternoon, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said.

A spokeswoman for the city of Haifa said some 50,000 people had been evacuated.

On a visit to the area, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said anyone implicated in setting the fires would be punished severely.

"It's a crime for all intents and purposes and in our opinion it is terror for all intents and purposes," he said.

He said incitement to arson was also playing a role in spreading the fires.

Israel's chief of police Roni Alsheich said: "It's safe to assume that whoever is setting the fires isn't doing it only out of pyromania."

"It's safe to assume that if it is arson it is politically motivated," he added.
Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan said that eight people had been arrested and that authorities had found "flammable materials and liquids poured in certain areas", a find that pointed to arson.

He said arson was suspected in about half of the fires.

Many of the fires were also reported to be caused by extreme wind gusts and drought, with no rain reported in large parts of Israel for months.

ABC/wires

All I can say is stay safe for our Israeli board members.

[Flagg]

Yeah, arson. I totally buy their excuse to "mow the lawn".

[Raj Ahten]

Well unless there was a thunderstorm recently it's going to be a human caused fire (assuming a squirrel didn't fry itself on power lines.) Israel seems to be having a steep learning curve on wildfires over the last decade or so with significant property losses and injuries. Maybe they'll start doing some fuels treatments to reduce the risk instead of being solely reactive. Just being in the full suppression mindset just leads to bigger fires later, whether they be political or natural.

[Ace Pace]

Well unless there was a thunderstorm recently it's going to be a human caused fire (assuming a squirrel didn't fry itself on power lines.) Israel seems to be having a steep learning curve on wildfires over the last decade or so with significant property losses and injuries. Maybe they'll start doing some fuels treatments to reduce the risk instead of being solely reactive. Just being in the full suppression mindset just leads to bigger fires later, whether they be political or natural.

Israel? Plan ahead? Don't make me laugh. There is no policy here, only politics.

More seriously, the blazes are pretty much fucking up a large fraction of the country. On the positive end, pretty much everyone opened their doors to evacuees regardless of ethnic background.

[Flagg]

Well unless there was a thunderstorm recently it's going to be a human caused fire (assuming a squirrel didn't fry itself on power lines.) Israel seems to be having a steep learning curve on wildfires over the last decade or so with significant property losses and injuries. Maybe they'll start doing some fuels treatments to reduce the risk instead of being solely reactive. Just being in the full suppression mindset just leads to bigger fires later, whether they be political or natural.

It could have been a vehicle engine, a campfire out of control, or even glass in a position to magnify the sun that started the fires. But no, Israeli leaders have decided that it was arson. And it's totally not to give them an excuse to kill Arabs.

[eyl]

Israel? Plan ahead? Don't make me laugh. There is no policy here, only politics.

More seriously, the blazes are pretty much fucking up a large fraction of the country. On the positive end, pretty much everyone opened their doors to evacuees regardless of ethnic background.

That's a bit of an exaggeration - lessons have been learned from the previous big fire six years ago; for example the establishment of the firebomber squadron.

It could have been a vehicle engine, a campfire out of control, or even glass in a position to magnify the sun that started the fires. But no, Israeli leaders have decided that it was arson. And it's totally not to give them an excuse to kill Arabs.

Well, it's the end of the year, y'know - there's a Dead Palestinian quota to meet.

More seriously, don't be stupid. Yes, in the previous big blaze six years ago, arson was suspected but eventually no-one was charged (as it happends, IIRC Israeli Arabs di start the fires, but it was due to negligent teenagers rather than malice). And with the current fires, no-one is disputing that some of the fires - in particular the initial ones - were started by accident or negligence. That said, in this case, there are multiple fire sources, not just one which spread, started over several days. And there's video evidence of what appears to be a group of three Palestinians starting a fire near Ariel. And arson has been a tool in Palestinian atatcks against Israel since the first intifada.

Of course, to date, no Arabs have actually been killed as a result of this. And if the intent was to create a cause to attack Gaza again, the government would construct a narrative linking Hamas operationally to the fires, which it hasn't done. No is anyone talking about any sort of military operation in response to this.

So are you going to provide any evidence for your accusation?

[Flagg]

Israel? Plan ahead? Don't make me laugh. There is no policy here, only politics.

More seriously, the blazes are pretty much fucking up a large fraction of the country. On the positive end, pretty much everyone opened their doors to evacuees regardless of ethnic background.

That's a bit of an exaggeration - lessons have been learned from the previous big fire six years ago; for example the establishment of the firebomber squadron.

It could have been a vehicle engine, a campfire out of control, or even glass in a position to magnify the sun that started the fires. But no, Israeli leaders have decided that it was arson. And it's totally not to give them an excuse to kill Arabs.

Well, it's the end of the year, y'know - there's a Dead Palestinian quota to meet.

More seriously, don't be stupid. Yes, in the previous big blaze six years ago, arson was suspected but eventually no-one was charged (as it happends, IIRC Israeli Arabs di start the fires, but it was due to negligent teenagers rather than malice). And with the current fires, no-one is disputing that some of the fires - in particular the initial ones - were started by accident or negligence. That said, in this case, there are multiple fire sources, not just one which spread, started over several days. And there's video evidence of what appears to be a group of three Palestinians starting a fire near Ariel. And arson has been a tool in Palestinian atatcks against Israel since the first intifada.

Of course, to date, no Arabs have actually been killed as a result of this. And if the intent was to create a cause to attack Gaza again, the government would construct a narrative linking Hamas operationally to the fires, which it hasn't done. No is anyone talking about any sort of military operation in response to this.

So are you going to provide any evidence for your accusation?

I don't have to provide evidence for pointing out that arson is not the only way wildfires happen, dumbass.

[eyl]

I don't have to provide evidence for pointing out that arson is not the only way wildfires happen, dumbass.

That part was the assertion, keep up. You accusation was that Israel was falsely blaming the fires on Arabs to justify killing them (in job lots, given your earlier "mowing the grass" comment).

[Flagg]

I don't have to provide evidence for pointing out that arson is not the only way wildfires happen, dumbass.

That part was the assertion, keep up. You accusation was that Israel was falsely blaming the fires on Arabs to justify killing them (in job lots, given your earlier "mowing the grass" comment).

You're right. Israel has never needed an excuse.

[eyl]

I don't have to provide evidence for pointing out that arson is not the only way wildfires happen, dumbass.

That part was the assertion, keep up. You accusation was that Israel was falsely blaming the fires on Arabs to justify killing them (in job lots, given your earlier "mowing the grass" comment).

You're right. Israel has never needed an excuse.

So that's a "no", then.

[Flagg]

That part was the assertion, keep up. You accusation was that Israel was falsely blaming the fires on Arabs to justify killing them (in job lots, given your earlier "mowing the grass" comment).

You're right. Israel has never needed an excuse.

So that's a "no", then.

I can't read the minds of Israeli leaders, I can just look at their prior conduct. And I didn't flat out say that they were going to kill Arabs over wildfires, I just sarcastically said they would. Because they've done more over less.

[Raj Ahten]

Well unless there was a thunderstorm recently it's going to be a human caused fire (assuming a squirrel didn't fry itself on power lines.) Israel seems to be having a steep learning curve on wildfires over the last decade or so with significant property losses and injuries. Maybe they'll start doing some fuels treatments to reduce the risk instead of being solely reactive. Just being in the full suppression mindset just leads to bigger fires later, whether they be political or natural.

It could have been a vehicle engine, a campfire out of control, or even glass in a position to magnify the sun that started the fires. But no, Israeli leaders have decided that it was arson. And it's totally not to give them an excuse to kill Arabs.

I expect nothing less from certain quarters. Haters are going to hate after all. As it turns out some of the fires there might be good evidence for arson, others less so. For instance one news report I saw said one of the fires was actually started by the IDF when a flare used during operations lit up the area like a Roman candle.

[Block]

You're right. Israel has never needed an excuse.

So that's a "no", then.

I can't read the minds of Israeli leaders, I can just look at their prior conduct. And I didn't flat out say that they were going to kill Arabs over wildfires, I just sarcastically said they would. Because they've done more over less.

Bullshit you weasel. You accused Israeli leaders of fabricating arson claims as an excuse to murder Arabs. Provide evidence of both happening or admit you're once again just fabricating shit because you feel like it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Flagg, you are blatantly lying. Your original statement was an accusation and you repeated that accusation from criticism before finally backpedaling.

You are also in bald-faced violation of the IvP moratorium because there is not an active IvP conflict going on at present.