Labour MP says 'merit' in women-only train carriages

[ArmorPierce]

Factors to consider in implementing such a optional segregation system into trains:

1. Social
2. Operational
3. Economics

1. Social

Nations that have this self segregation option trend to have unchecked rampant sexist and mysognist cultures for a reason.

This only reaffirms social expectations that the oonus is on women to prevent themselves to be the target of unwanted male attention.

2. Operational

Implementing such a self segregating system will undoubtedly lead to operational inefficiencies leading to enhanced delays or need of additional resources to overcome.

3. Economics

operational inefficiencies lead to either opportunity or real costs to enforce the optional self segregation at the same level of capacity.

Summary

There are obvious social, operational, and economic costs to enforcing a optional self segregating system for trains. Assault is already illegal. Enforce that. Adding additional employees to patrol should be less costly I terms of these factors.

[Flagg]

You cannot win a debate so you resort to name calling and and questioning someone's motives. How typical. Go get fucked retard.

Your mentally challenged argument can be used for anything. Don't want to give each child an armed guard, by God, you must hate children! Now I realize you're probably going to say there's no costs involved, but actually, yes there is opportunity costs involved in terms of lost efficiency and resource allocation.

The truth is, societies employs this 'optional segregation ' happen to be the most sexist and mysgonist societies for a reason. the reason being It sets poor precedent for society overall.

Further, I think that this wish to extend women special accommodations but deny it to other groups demonstrates YOUR preconceived notions.

I already won the argument, stupid. Rather decisively. And the fact that you think I was suggesting you hate women speaks more to you than me. I was hinting that you're just another "safe spaces waaa!" dipshit. Maybe you need a safe space when you throw out apples to oranges comparisons and get called the idiot you are? Poor baby need a nap?

And the fact that you are so fucking stupid that you think "special accommodations for women" (women aren't generally a minority, BTW. One more indication you have the brains of a small pebble.) wouldn't include any female or trans-woman of any ethnic or racial background again shows what a stupid asshole you are. But that's fine, pretend you care about the plight of minorities while throwing out insulting language that denigrates the mentally disabled.

Seriously, go away. The shit stench you've vomited forth won't clear the air in this thread for a week.

Given that I am a minority that grew up in crushing poverty,I obviously do care about the plight of minorities retard .

Assholes like you however choose to support the plight of women butt ignore minorities despite both blacks and Hispanics earning less on a dollar than women and subjected to greater violent crime.

It's easy for white men to be in favor of policies and practices rust favors their white wives, sisters, daughters and mothers... not so easy for them to consider racial minorities which you are adequately demonstrating.

And the fact that you think I was suggesting you hate women speaks more to you than me.

This is retarded, sorry.

I was hinting that you're just another "safe spaces waaa!" dipshit.

Nope, I'm actually in favor of 'safe places ' within constraints. As I mentioned already, I am a racial minority. I realize that your feeble mind is unable to process levels past 1 level deep, but that's your problem not mine.

And the fact that you are so fucking stupid that you think "special accommodations for women" (women aren't generally a minority, BTW. One more indication you have the brains of a small pebble.)

More bull shit from you. Where did I indicate that women are a minority? They actually represent the majority!

Regardless, even if you weren't blatantly lying or misconstruing regarding what I said, you are grasping at straws and semantics. Some can argue that women are a social minority.

wouldn't include any female or trans-woman of any ethnic or racial background again shows what a stupid asshole you are. But that's fine, pretend you care about the plight of minorities while throwing out insulting language that denigrates the mentally disabled.

Cute. I'm only calling you a retard, not anybody else.

Seriously, go away. The shit stench you've vomited forth won't clear the air in this thread for a week.

That smell is your tiny brain rotting away from atrophy. Please don't let that stop you from advancing fabrications and falsehoods.

Leave the adults proceed and engage in a conversation regarding social, operational, and economic implications while you rage about people not caring about women safety hate safe spaces or whatever garbage you are purporting. I realize that's too much complexity for you to manage.

Poor baby got a sad?

BTW, you were the one comparing women to minorities, not me. Oh, and we make "special accommodations" for other groups. Like the physically disabled. And yes, use of a slur to insult someone as being mentally handicapped is denigrating the mentally handicapped. But then, that's what twits like you do when you get crushed like a bug by reality. Run on home, little sadsack.

[ArmorPierce]

I already won the argument, stupid. Rather decisively. And the fact that you think I was suggesting you hate women speaks more to you than me. I was hinting that you're just another "safe spaces waaa!" dipshit. Maybe you need a safe space when you throw out apples to oranges comparisons and get called the idiot you are? Poor baby need a nap?

And the fact that you are so fucking stupid that you think "special accommodations for women" (women aren't generally a minority, BTW. One more indication you have the brains of a small pebble.) wouldn't include any female or trans-woman of any ethnic or racial background again shows what a stupid asshole you are. But that's fine, pretend you care about the plight of minorities while throwing out insulting language that denigrates the mentally disabled.

Seriously, go away. The shit stench you've vomited forth won't clear the air in this thread for a week.

Given that I am a minority that grew up in crushing poverty,I obviously do care about the plight of minorities retard .

Assholes like you however choose to support the plight of women butt ignore minorities despite both blacks and Hispanics earning less on a dollar than women and subjected to greater violent crime.

It's easy for white men to be in favor of policies and practices rust favors their white wives, sisters, daughters and mothers... not so easy for them to consider racial minorities which you are adequately demonstrating.

And the fact that you think I was suggesting you hate women speaks more to you than me.

This is retarded, sorry.

I was hinting that you're just another "safe spaces waaa!" dipshit.

Nope, I'm actually in favor of 'safe places ' within constraints. As I mentioned already, I am a racial minority. I realize that your feeble mind is unable to process levels past 1 level deep, but that's your problem not mine.

And the fact that you are so fucking stupid that you think "special accommodations for women" (women aren't generally a minority, BTW. One more indication you have the brains of a small pebble.)

More bull shit from you. Where did I indicate that women are a minority? They actually represent the majority!

Regardless, even if you weren't blatantly lying or misconstruing regarding what I said, you are grasping at straws and semantics. Some can argue that women are a social minority.

wouldn't include any female or trans-woman of any ethnic or racial background again shows what a stupid asshole you are. But that's fine, pretend you care about the plight of minorities while throwing out insulting language that denigrates the mentally disabled.

Cute. I'm only calling you a retard, not anybody else.

Seriously, go away. The shit stench you've vomited forth won't clear the air in this thread for a week.

That smell is your tiny brain rotting away from atrophy. Please don't let that stop you from advancing fabrications and falsehoods.

Leave the adults proceed and engage in a conversation regarding social, operational, and economic implications while you rage about people not caring about women safety hate safe spaces or whatever garbage you are purporting. I realize that's too much complexity for you to manage.

Poor baby got a sad?

BTW, you were the one comparing women to minorities, not me. Oh, and we make "special accommodations" for other groups. Like the physically disabled. And yes, use of a slur to insult someone as being mentally handicapped is denigrating the mentally handicapped. But then, that's what twits like you do when you get crushed like a bug by reality. Run on home, little sadsack.

You are clearly delusional with imaginations of your grandeur. Please seek help.

Not to mention that you ignored my follow up post that stripped out your garbage and summarized the issue concisely.

Of course the reason being why is that your response boiling down to "raar! if you disagree you don't care about women safety and/or safe places! "

[Flagg]

You don't care about women being sexually assaulted on train cars since you oppose what you call "special accommodations". And you essentially compared all women (some of whom are actually minorities because gender and race/ethnicity are 2 different things) to minorities in your first dumbshit post. Then you lied and said I called women minorities when the only mention of segregating minorities was made by you. And since challenged on the refined pigshit you've been spouting, all you've done is throw around ableist slurs and insult other cultures. But I guess being a misogynistic xenophobic douchebag is how you roll. So please roll right out of here.

[ArmorPierce]

You don't care about women being sexually assaulted on train cars since you oppose what you call "special accommodations".

If this is your position then having any sort of rational discussion with you if impossible. You're going full on retard over here.

And you essentially compared all women (some of whom are actually minorities because gender and race/ethnicity are 2 different things) to minorities in your first dumbshit post. Then you lied and said I called women minorities when the only mention of segregating minorities was made by you.

Comparing women to racial minority is not synonymous to equating women to a minority group. I realise that you're unable you cognitively process that but that's not my problem.

Quote where I lied and stated that you said that. Put up or shut up dumb ass.

And since challenged on the refined pigshit you've been spouting, all you've done is throw around ableist slurs and insult other cultures. But I guess being a misogynistic xenophobic douchebag is how you roll. So please roll right out of here.

Yeah go get fucked retard.

All it looks like your good for is raging on bull shit that you lack the cognitive ability to assess in a meaningful manner.

I can very much the same soon it around and call you misogynistic xenophobic douchebag based on the same points as in your eyes only women deserve special accodomationd despite minorities being far greater victims to violent crimes. YOU dont care about racial minority victims.

Oh btw asshole didn't you just dispute me calling you out on implying I hate women? Do you know what misogynist is right? Yup so either your a retard or full of shit. I'm guessing it's a bit of both.

[ArmorPierce]

I find the xenophobic accusation to be of particular exercise of absurdity given not only the lack of any basis, and that you have exhibited those traits far more than i have, but alsothe fact I am from mixed non-english speaking immigrant racial minority background, growing up within other minority racial and diversed communities.

I'm basically the antithesis of xenophobia

Lol please get on your meds retard. Sorry, but your go to pejoratives doesn't apply here

You're what I would describe as a fake liberal

[loomer]

Jesus christ, do you have to keep banging that retard drum?

[Flagg]

Jesus christ, do you have to keep banging that retard drum?

Of course, he's literally everything he's calling me. It's hilarious. I'm a "fake liberal" because I think women should have the option to use public transit and not be molested. And he'll use ableist slurs and either lie about what I've posted or show off his total lack of reading comprehension because he thinks it offends me when in reality I just think people who use the term as often as they possibly can are the lowest form of human scum. It's fucking hilarious. I guess he thinks he can get me to fly off the handle with rage by saying I should "take my meds" and other worn out stupid bullshit when in reality I'm just laughing as he punches himself in the face.

[Simon_Jester]

My go-to example in any conversation involving 'safe spaces' is the teacher's lounge at the high school where I work.

It is the one place in the building where, during the normal course of the day, I can confidently expect to NOT have to deal with teen drama, teenagers casually misusing or abusing the facilities, or other kinds of encroachment and frustration that one comes to expect from working in a building where the adolescents outnumber the adults sixteen to one or so.

I value having such a place. I would not deprive my worst enemy of the equivalent sensation of having a place to just not deal with bullshit.

[Flagg]

My go-to example in any conversation involving 'safe spaces' is the teacher's lounge at the high school where I work.

It is the one place in the building where, during the normal course of the day, I can confidently expect to NOT have to deal with teen drama, teenagers casually misusing or abusing the facilities, or other kinds of encroachment and frustration that one comes to expect from working in a building where the adolescents outnumber the adults sixteen to one or so.

I value having such a place. I would not deprive my worst enemy of the equivalent sensation of having a place to just not deal with bullshit.

Or getting groped (or worse) on a packed train car, not being able to identify the sexual predator who did it, and either accept the unacceptable in order to use the cheapest and/or most convenient form of public transportation, or find another way to get around your city in order to not be sexually assaulted.

So either we're both <offensive slur used by ableist shitheads describing us as mentally disabled>, need to take our meds because we're mentally ill (Because only the mentally ill oppose sexual assault. Glad I'm mentally ill! ), or totally correct because we don't think women should be subject to sexual assault and that they should be allowed the option to use a safer train car/compartment that allows only women and trans-women if they choose not to use the all-genders part of the train.

[Simon_Jester]

Or getting groped (or worse) on a packed train car, not being able to identify the sexual predator who did it, and either accept the unacceptable in order to use the cheapest and/or most convenient form of public transportation, or find another way to get around your city in order to not be sexually assaulted.

Exactly. They deal with worse bullshit than me, so if I have a right to a teacher's lounge- which I will insist that I do, unreliable though the copier has gotten, crappy though the furniture is, and overpriced though the vending machines be...

So much more do women have a right to a "women's lounge" if they are actually being harassed. Until and unless we can figure out a way to responsibly stop the harassment, not just talk piously about our intent to stop it, women have a reasonable expectation that other steps will be taken to ensure their safety from the harassment.

Now, this issue gets extra-thorny and extra-shouty when we start talking about transwomen's access to women's spaces, but that is perhaps a battle best reserved for a different day.

So either we're both <offensive slur used by ableist shitheads describing us as mentally disabled>, need to take our meds because we're mentally ill (Because only the mentally ill oppose sexual assault. Glad I'm mentally ill! ),

As Isadora Duncan put it, "what truly sympathetic person isn't even at least a little bit mad?"

[Dragon Angel]

Now, this issue gets extra-thorny and extra-shouty when we start talking about transwomen's access to women's spaces, but that is perhaps a battle best reserved for a different day.

If anything, we are probably in more danger. If someone gropes a cis woman, that's sexual assault in itself. If someone gropes a trans woman, that's sexual assault and a chance for said groper to react ... more unkindly, despite their inherent sense of entitlement present.

[Flagg]

Now, this issue gets extra-thorny and extra-shouty when we start talking about transwomen's access to women's spaces, but that is perhaps a battle best reserved for a different day.

If anything, we are probably in more danger. If someone gropes a cis woman, that's sexual assault in itself. If someone gropes a trans woman, that's sexual assault and a chance for said groper to react ... more unkindly, despite their inherent sense of entitlement present.

Yeah, that's why I added them into the equation from the beginning.

[Flagg]

*SNIP*
Now, this issue gets extra-thorny and extra-shouty when we start talking about transwomen's access to women's spaces, but that is perhaps a battle best reserved for a different day.

Yeah I'm not inclined towards incrementalism when it comes to people's rights as human beings, but I do consider myself a realist (others disagree, but meh) and that is probably something that would have to come after if/when such a thing is tested, proves successful, and is enacted on a large scale. Doesn't mean I have to like it or not vehemently advocate for transwomen to be allowed to use the women-only train cars from the start, though.

[Dragon Angel]

I imagine it'll be argued that trans women already use bathrooms, so why not trains? How would they even enforce discrimination besides a mandatory genital check, which would obviously go out so fast...

[Flagg]

I imagine it'll be argued that trans women already use bathrooms, so why not trains? How would they even enforce discrimination besides a mandatory genital check, which would obviously go out so fast...

Yeah, but there's pushback against the bathroom thing by bigots calling transwomen child molesters. Unless that issue is soundly settled by the time this hypothetical situation happens I'd expect the same. Doesn't mean I wouldn't push for it anyway from the start.

[Dragon Angel]

Yeah, but there's pushback against the bathroom thing by bigots calling transwomen child molesters. Unless that issue is soundly settled by the time this hypothetical situation happens I'd expect the same. Doesn't mean I wouldn't push for it anyway from the start.

Yeah I mean like, if the train car issue comes up in the UK I imagine it'll be around the same time these assbutts try to propose bathroom bills, or will try to follow the same logic. Or it'll be a train of slippery slopes that will lead into each other.

[Flagg]

Yeah, but there's pushback against the bathroom thing by bigots calling transwomen child molesters. Unless that issue is soundly settled by the time this hypothetical situation happens I'd expect the same. Doesn't mean I wouldn't push for it anyway from the start.

Yeah I mean like, if the train car issue comes up in the UK I imagine it'll be around the same time these assbutts try to propose bathroom bills, or will try to follow the same logic. Or it'll be a train of slippery slopes that will lead into each other.

I see what you did there.

[Simon_Jester]

Now, this issue gets extra-thorny and extra-shouty when we start talking about transwomen's access to women's spaces, but that is perhaps a battle best reserved for a different day.

If anything, we are probably in more danger. If someone gropes a cis woman, that's sexual assault in itself. If someone gropes a trans woman, that's sexual assault and a chance for said groper to react ... more unkindly, despite their inherent sense of entitlement present.

I am in full agreement, I simply decided against discussing trans access to a train car that doesn't exist yet.

I really am TRYING to learn to not turn everything into infinity-word digressions and topic changes. It's an area where I have little natural aptitude, but I don't want to give up yet.

[ArmorPierce]

When I was living in the ghettos in middle school and high school, at time periods I was victim to attempted muggings on a weekly basis often while transitioning on public transportation.

Does that not qualify enough for a safe space? Are women generally victimized more frequently than that?

Why is there only concern for one form of protection in public spaces for a single class of people?

For the record, I am in favor safe spaces within qualifiers... less so public spaces.

Also obviously segregating by race in public is bananas - but I think that your experiences makes you more apt to dismiss that form of victimhood because you cannot imagine it.

[ArmorPierce]

To piggy back on my prior post since I forgot to mention earlier.

Isolated concern for the protection of a single class of people enables society to ignore the root cause issue and to permit that issue to grow and fester rather than treat it as well as ignore the suffering of the 'others '. If you have rampant sexual harassing and assault there is very likely other major issues in the area!

This creates a greater overall problem for everyone as the perpetrators are not rooted out. It also gives a bandaid solution to racists,claasists, and xenophobes who don't care about the root cause or the suffering of 'others '.

As I had mention, at times I was subject to muggings on a weekly basis while boarding public transportation I the ghettos.

My wife won travels NYC and NJ trains for hours every day for has only experienced someone copping a feel, once, and he apologized and referenced the crowded train (probably a lie). I have to mention she isn't in the ghettos however.

[Simon_Jester]

When I was living in the ghettos in middle school and high school, at time periods I was victim to attempted muggings on a weekly basis often while transitioning on public transportation.

Does that not qualify enough for a safe space? Are women generally victimized more frequently than that?

The women in the vehicles you traveled in were almost certainly more often attacked than the men.

That said, of course attacks by criminals on public transit should be prevented, but that is an entirely different problem with different solutions than the "random men grope random women on train cars" problem that's being discussed here. The solution to "people, in general, are getting mugged on trains" is not necessarily the same as the solution to "women, in particular, are getting groped on trains."

Why is there only concern for one form of protection in public spaces for a single class of people?

There is not, there is ample public concern for preventing crime in public spaces. You're just ignoring all the other kinds of concern and forms of protection, in favor of the one that lets you cry about reverse discrimination.

Also obviously segregating by race in public is bananas - but I think that your experiences makes you more apt to dismiss that form of victimhood because you cannot imagine it.

As far as I can tell, the idea that anyone is even suggesting race-segregated public transit or anything else is purely a figment of your imagination.

To piggy back on my prior post since I forgot to mention earlier.

Isolated concern for the protection of a single class of people enables society to ignore the root cause issue and to permit that issue to grow and fester rather than treat it as well as ignore the suffering of the 'others '. If you have rampant sexual harassing and assault there is very likely other major issues in the area!

Why yes, and do you know what? Literally none of those many major issues will ever get solved, if every time anyone tries to solve ONE of the problems, some walking pile of trash shows up to be obstructionist and troll with "but this doesn't solve any of the other problems!"

If there's a hurricane headed for your house and your house is on fire and your TV is broken, putting out the fire won't fix the TV or make the hurricane go away. You still have to do it.

[Flagg]

Plus, women of any race, ethnicity, and sexual preference would be allowed in the women only car. Talking about racial and ethnic segregation is at best apples and oranges and at worst a red herring.

[streetad]

Anyone who has been on a train in the UK will know exactly how academic this whole argument is. The idea that harassed commuters are going to voluntarily stand crammed in like sardines whilst the next carriage is half empty because some jobsworth says it's women only is pie in the sky, to be frank.

[Flagg]

Anyone who has been on a train in the UK will know exactly how academic this whole argument is. The idea that harassed commuters are going to voluntarily stand crammed in like sardines whilst the next carriage is half empty because some jobsworth says it's women only is pie in the sky, to be frank.

Then it will have been a failed experiment.