Sweden 30 % Muslim by 2050

[loomer]

Fresh from America, a fine example of why assuming 'immigrant = muslim' in relation to crime like our not-so-learned neo-nazi quoting friend upthread did can be a very, very big mistake. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42241667

Let's quickly check off the 'has to be a durned mooselimb' list, shall we?

[*]Foreign born, to use the same terminology as Zontargs less-than-credible source.
[*]Brown/foreign-sounding name, to use their methodology for 'swedish criminal vs non-swedish criminal'
[*]Planned a suicidal terror attack
[*]Targetted a religious site

Yeah, had to be a Muslim. Except he wasn't, he was a Christian from the Phillipines, and he was in fact aiming for Muslims. When you strip out stuff like 'actual reliable nationality, refugee status, and religion' information from your data (as is, from what I've seen, more or less the usual practice in Sweden), you wouldn't be able to tell that's the case, and it really highlights the problem with a lot of the far right alarmist 'oh no a refugee and/or immigrant done a crime, must be an Evil Muslim' rhetoric angled towards Scandinavia these days.

[FaxModem1]

I'm reminded of the South Park episode Goobacks, where the point is made that yes, it sucks for other people in poor areas, but a huge influx of people just leads to the richer nation becoming worse. The best option being making the world better so that immigratiin isn't necessary. The second best option, of course, is a huge gay orgy.

Actually, the moral of that episode was that the huge gay orgy pile was the best option

Well, yes. But for the purpose of this discussion, as appealing as a gay orgy is for me, bettering the world is largely the better option.

[Darth Yan]

Why do we still tolerate cosmical storm? The guy clearly thinks muslims are all rapists and terrorists.

[Zaune]

Why do we still tolerate cosmical storm? The guy clearly thinks muslims are all rapists and terrorists.

Because unless he's outright calling for all Muslims to be shot on sight or something, banning people just because we don't like their opinions is at the very least unseemly.

[Simon_Jester]

Well yeah, but he's also a terrible debater with a habit of hit-and-run posting really shitty articles and either making excuses or disappearing when people point out that they're shitty.

[Elheru Aran]

We also have this little gem:

Yes I am a racist.

There are countless variations between different human groups Mito-DNA and Nuclear DNA.
Who knows which race is "best"? I don't. But I can see difference everywhere.

All difference should be mapped and what ever shortcomings should be corrected with genetic editing surgery.

Nobody should be disadvantaged, humans should be rejuvenated and not allowed to age to Death.

But not an idiot. I don't want Hitler, death camps or any of the nonsense that took place during World Wars. I want peaceful transhumanism.

[Dragon Angel]

I think cosmicalstorm crossed the line of "just bad opinions" a ... long while ago. He's not demonstrated that he is willing to actually learn from what other people tell him. At best, he skitters away into some sewage gutter only to return a little while later with yet another far right conspiracy shitpost. Lately he's also been letting it known that he probably does the 1488 on Sundays too (his claims to being the opposite overruled by his actions).

It's one thing if someone completely ignorant and moronic posts something, gets corrected, and well, learns why they are wrong. It's something completely different if someone just continually shitposts with conspiracy drivel and just generally brings the quality of conversation to a halt. Notice how Zontargs also joined in and trolled the discussion with a Nazi shitpost and thought he could get away with trying to say we should just take his "statistics" in a complete vacuum.

This kind of shit only serves to attract more shit and gives that further shit a cover.

[Lord Revan]

Cosmicalstorm's main issue seems to be that he's a paranoid xenophobe (he's not just a racist unless you want to argue slavs and nordic people are different races) and utterly unwilling to challenge his preconceptions. Now it's muslims/arabs (not sure he's even aware those aren't the same thing at all) a while back it was russians.

Also what does "do the 1488" mean?

[Dragon Angel]

Also what does "do the 1488" mean?

88 corresponds to two of the 8th character of the English alphabet, H, and stands for "Heil Hitler", while 14 corresponds to what's known as the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

So, basically it means doing the Nazi dance.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Why do we still tolerate cosmical storm? The guy clearly thinks muslims are all rapists and terrorists.

Basically, we are hamstrung by our own rules. Unless he actually starts spouting off racial slurs and calling for the execution of jews, he's a garbage person but not actually a bannable garbage person.

[Simon_Jester]

So... the shitty-debating rules don't cover serial hit and run posters?

[cosmicalstorm]

Jews are not welcome in todays Europe. This isn't really news and I suspect Israel does not mind the new Citizens who will show up.

What the fuck is bannable racist about this? I joined this forum because of the supposed Atheism ten years ago.
I still remember the absolute pitiful replies I got to the Rotherham thread.
If White men were doing half of the stuff that Europes new Citizens are up to you guys would be outraged.

Jews are fleeing Paris
http://www.20minutes.fr/paris/2184191-2 ... parce-juif

The Uncomfortable Truth About Swedish Anti-Semitism

By PAULINA NEUDINGDEC. 14, 2017


Police arriving after a synagogue was attacked in a failed arson attempt in Gothenburg, Sweden, on December 9, 2017. Credit Adam Ihse/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

STOCKHOLM — This past Saturday, a Hanukkah party at a synagogue in Goteborg, Sweden, was abruptly interrupted by Molotov cocktails. They were hurled by a gang of men in masks at the Jews, mostly teenagers, who had gathered to celebrate the holiday.

Two days later, two fire bombs were discovered outside the Jewish burial chapel in the southern Swedish city of Malmo.

Who knows what tomorrow may bring?

For Sweden’s 18,000 Jews, sadly, none of this comes as a surprise. They are by now used to anti-Semitic threats and attacks — especially during periods of unrest in the Middle East, which provide cover to those whose actual goal has little to do with Israel and much to do with harming Jews.

Both of these recent attacks followed days of incitement against Jews. Last Friday, 200 people protested in Malmo against President Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The protesters called for an intifada and promised “we will shoot the Jews.” A day later, during a demonstration in Stockholm, a speaker called Jews “apes and pigs.” There were promises of martyrdom.



Malmo’s sole Hasidic rabbi has reported being the victim of more than 100 incidents of hostility ranging from hate speech to physical assault. In response to such attacks, the Simon Wiesenthal Center issued a travel warning in 2010 advising “extreme caution when visiting southern Sweden” because of officials’ failure to act against the “serial harassment” of Jews in Malmo.
Continue reading the main story

Today, entering a synagogue anywhere in Sweden usually requires going through security checks, including airport-like questioning. At times of high alert, police officers with machine guns guard Jewish schools. Children at the Jewish kindergarten in Malmo play behind bulletproof glass. Not even funerals are safe from harassment.

Jewish schoolteachers have reported hiding their identity. A teacher who wouldn’t even share the city where she teaches for fear of her safety told a Swedish news outlet: “I hear students shouting in the hallway about killing Jews.” Henryk Grynfeld, a teacher at a high school in a mostly immigrant neighborhood in Malmo, was told by a student: “We’re going to kill all Jews.” He said other students yell “yahoud,” the Arabic word for Jew, at him.

A spokesman for Malmo’s Jewish community put the situation starkly. You “don’t want to display the Star of David around your neck,” he said. Or as spokesman for the Goteborg synagogue put it, “It’s a constant battle to live a normal life, and not to give in to the threats, but still be able to feel safe.”

The question that has dogged Jews throughout the centuries is now an urgent one for Sweden’s Jewish community. Is it time to leave?

Some are answering yes. One reason is the nature of the current threat.

Historically, anti-Semitism in Sweden could mainly be attributed to right-wing extremists. While this problem persists, a study from 2013 showed that 51 percent of anti-Semitic incidents in Sweden were attributed to Muslim extremists. Only 5 percent were carried out by right-wing extremists; 25 percent were perpetrated by left-wing extremists.

Swedish politicians have no problem condemning anti-Semitism carried out by right-wingers. When neo-Nazis planned a march that would go past the Goteborg synagogue on Yom Kippur this September, for example, it stirred up outrage across the political spectrum. A court ruled that the demonstrators had to change their route.

There is, however, tremendous hesitation to speak out against hate crimes committed by members of another minority group in a country that prides itself on welcoming minorities and immigrants. In 2015, Sweden was second only to Germany in the number of Syrian refugees it welcomed. Yet the three men arrested in the Molotov cocktail attack were newly arrived immigrants, two Syrians and a Palestinian.

The fear of being accused of intolerance has paralyzed Sweden’s leaders from properly addressing deep-seated intolerance.




Some of the country’s leaders have even used Israel as a convenient boogeyman to explain violence. After the terrorist attacks in Paris in November 2015, Sweden’s foreign minister, Margot Wallstrom, explained radicalism among European Muslims with reference to Israel: “Here, once again, we are brought back to situations like the one in the Middle East, where not least, the Palestinians see that there isn’t a future. We must either accept a desperate situation or resort to violence.”

In an interview in June, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven was asked whether Sweden had been naïve about the link between immigration and anti-Semitism. His response was typical of the way in which leading politicians have avoided giving straight answers about the threat against the country’s Jews: “We have a problem in Sweden with anti-Semitism, and it doesn’t matter who expresses it, it’s still as darn wrong.”

But the problem has grown so dire that it finally forced Mr. Lofven to admit in an interview this month: “We will not ignore the fact that many people have come here from the Middle East, where anti-Semitism is a widespread idea, almost part of the ideology. We must become even clearer, dare to talk more about it.”

He’s right. Unfortunately, the country’s news media is often unable to speak plainly about the issue.

Two years ago, Sweden’s biggest newspaper, Aftonbladet, published a column that ridiculed the notion that Jews were talking of leaving the country because of anti-Semitism, dismissing it as “lying” and “hysteria,” and scoffing at the “especially cool” machine guns that police officers use when protecting Jewish schools. The same newspaper accused Israel of harvesting Palestinian organs in 2009 — the modern equivalent of the blood libel.

On Dec. 6, Sweden’s state TV attributed President Trump’s announcement on Jerusalem to the supposed extreme strength of the so-called Jewish lobby in the United States. The channel later apologized. TT, Sweden’s leading news agency, cited ”influential Jewish donors” in its analysis of the move. “Attack against synagogue linked to Trump,” was the headline chosen by Swedish Metro to explain the fire bomb attack in Goteborg.

There are many areas in which Israel deserves criticism, but the Swedish press often crosses the line into vilification of the Jewish state and regularly insinuates that events in the Middle East are directed by powerful Jews in the West. This risks stoking already dangerously high anti-Jewish sentiment.


What can be done?

For starters, there are growing demands from Sweden’s Jewish organizations for the state to do more to protect them. These days, Jewish institutions rely heavily on member fees and their own security organizations for protection. But keeping citizens safe is a basic job of the government.

It is also vital for Sweden to adopt a coherent strategy to combat radical Islamism. The country has become one of Europe’s richest recruiting grounds for Islamic State fighters. Five people were killed in an Islamist attack in downtown Stockholm in April, and Swedish Islamists have been involved in other deadly attacks in Europe, including in Paris and Brussels.

One aspect of this strategy must be for the authorities to regain control over immigrant neighborhoods, where organized crime is rampant. In addition, Sweden has had a laissez-faire attitude toward religious schools, tax-funded through a voucher system. This has allowed extremists to exert influence over the minds of young people. Taxpayers shouldn’t have to fund radicalization.

The government should also do more to counter attempts by foreign clerics to radicalize its Muslim community with a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, including the insidious idea that the Holocaust is a lie. In Sweden, as in other European countries, radicalization of Muslims is often funded and organized by foreign entities.

None of these efforts can be successful, however, without openly acknowledging the nature of modern anti-Semitism in Sweden.

During his state visit to Sweden in 2013, President Barack Obama didn’t hesitate to call out the country’s anti-Semitism problem. Speaking at Stockholm’s main synagogue, he included a subtle but unmistakable criticism of the attitude among Swedish politicians: ”We will stand against anti-Semitism and hatred, in all its forms.” Swedish leaders should heed his words.



Paulina Neuding (@paulinaneuding) is the editor in chief of the Swedish online magazine Kvartal, and a columnist with the dailies Svenska Dagbladet and Goteborgs-Posten.


Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/opin ... -jews.html

[Broomstick]

Jews are not welcome in todays Europe.

There was a time when they were welcome?

This isn't really news and I suspect Israel does not mind the new Citizens who will show up.

So... what are you saying? You're OK with ethnic cleansing? No one's actually being killed, just pressured into leaving their homes and livelihoods and starting over as a refugee elsewhere?

What the fuck is bannable racist about this?

Alyrium just pointed out that it's NOT bannable. As long as you follow the rules the rules protect you. However, you do hold a position that is not popular in this forum.

If White men were doing half of the stuff that Europes new Citizens are up to you guys would be outraged.

The difference is that when a white man does something bad we don't tar all white men with the same brush. Oscar Pistorius shoots his girlfriend and we talk about how awful Pistorius is, we don't say "white men kill their women" or "don't let your daughter marry a white man, he'll kill her". There are white men who rape women. There are white men who steal, who commit acts of terrorism, who kill people, who are religious fanatics. And there are threads expressing outrage against the individuals who are guilty. Not the vast groups to white those individuals belong.

In truth, every crime you say the Muslims of Europe commit white men also commit - but it doesn't hit the news. It's not used as an excuse to ban white men from Europe.

[mr friendly guy]

This isn't really news and I suspect Israel does not mind the new Citizens who will show up.

So... what are you saying? You're OK with ethnic cleansing? No one's actually being killed, just pressured into leaving their homes and livelihoods and starting over as a refugee elsewhere?

He is most probably referring to how Israel wants these Jews to come to Israel. There was a spat between France and Israel over this, where Israel is telling French Jews to come to Israel because of rising anti semitism in France.

[Ralin]

So... the shitty-debating rules don't cover serial hit and run posters?

Indeed. I remember saying awhile back that as a dumb and racist as Confederate Patriot was at least he had actual points to make and was willing to argue and back them up instead of being a RSS feed of whatever garbage was going through the minds of the anti-immigrant right-wing of northern Europe.

Then Confederate Patriot went full troll and I looked stupid.

[Alyrium Denryle]

So... the shitty-debating rules don't cover serial hit and run posters?

Unfortunately no. Violates the spirit of them, but not the letter. The staff tends to be pretty ban-averse in general as well.

[Lord Revan]

I suppose part of the issue is that it might be hard to tell a "hit and run" poster apart from a poster that simply cannot post that often but is genuine about wanting to be part of the discussion.

I remember back 5-6 years ago (when I moved into my current appartment though due to unrelated reasons) I had internet in a way that I could use this forum when I used my parents laptop (which I obviously didn't have access to that often), so I could have days possible even weeks between posts.

So I suspect admins might be unwilling to make rules that could be used to "silence" unpopular posters who aren't trolls.

EDIT:though in this case one could argue that Cosmicalstorm is violating the "no broken record" rule but that's for the staff to deside.