Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

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Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Straha »

CNN wrote:
The Cherokee Nation announced Thursday that it intends to appoint a delegate to the US House of Representatives, asserting for the first time a right promised to the tribe in a nearly 200-year-old treaty with the federal government.

It was a historic step for the Oklahoma-based Cherokee Nation and its nearly 370,000 members, coming about a week after Chuck Hoskin Jr. was sworn in as principal chief of the tribe. The Cherokee Nation says it's the largest tribal nation in the US and one of three federally recognized Cherokee tribes.
The move raises questions about what that representation in Congress would look like and whether the US will honor an agreement it made almost two centuries ago.
Here's what's at stake.
Why is this happening now?
The Cherokee Nation's right to appoint a delegate stems from the same treaty that the US government used to forcibly remove the tribe from its ancestral lands.
As a result of the 1835 Treaty of New Echota, the Cherokee were ultimately made to leave their homes in the Southeast for present-day Oklahoma in exchange for money and other compensation. Nearly 4,000 members of the tribe died of disease, starvation and exhaustion on the journey now known as the Trail of Tears.
A delegate in the House of Representatives was one of the ways the US government promised to compensate the Cherokee Nation.

So why is the tribe only taking up the offer now?
Ezra Rosser, a law professor at American University, told CNN that the US government has long made it difficult for tribes to exercise rights afforded to them in treaties. But now, tribes are asserting themselves in a way that demands the attention of non-Native Americans.
"We have to recognize that we imposed a genocide on tribes and we imposed harsh measures toward any government structure that they had," Ezra Rosser said. "To me, it's not surprising that it would take somewhat deep into the self-determination era for tribes to be in a position to assert some of these rights."
Hoskin echoed that sentiment, telling CNN that "the Cherokee Nation is today in a position of strength that I think is unprecedented in its history."
Why is this important?

Having a delegate in the House would fundamentally alter the relationship between the US government and the Cherokee Nation, Rosser wrote in a 2005 article for the Boston University Public Interest Law Journal.
Right now, the federal government and Native American tribes largely operate as two sovereign nations that interact with one another, Rosser said. Representation in the House would incorporate the Cherokee Nation into the US government itself.
The two other Cherokee tribes recognized by the federal government are the United Keetoowah Band in Oklahoma, which has about 14,000 members, and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina, which has about 16,000 members. It's unclear if they would have the same right to appoint a delegate.
What power would a delegate have?

The treaty doesn't specify whether or not the Cherokee Nation's delegate would be a voting member of the legislature. But Hoskin said the position might look something like the non-voting members that represent Washington, D.C., and five US territories.
"I think we have to look at the roadmaps that are laid out as a suggested path to seating our delegate, and certainly the delegates afforded the territories give us an idea of what is workable in the Congress," he said.

There are currently six non-voting members in the House. Washington D.C. and four permanently inhabited US territories -- American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands and the US Virgin Islands -- are represented by a delegate, who serves a two-year term. Puerto Rico is served by a resident commissioner, who is elected every four years.
Those representatives can't vote on the House floor, but they can vote in committees that they are on, introduce legislation and engage in debate. Hoskin said he hoped the Cherokee Nation's delegate would help advance the interests of the tribe and, more broadly, all Native Americans.
Who will be the tribe's delegate?
Kimberly Teehee has been nominated to serve as the Cherokee delegate.
She is currently the tribe's vice president of government relations, and previously worked as a senior policy advisor on Native American affairs for three years in President Barack Obama's administration. For about 12 years before that, Teehee was a senior advisor to Dale Kildee, then a Democratic congressman from Michigan.
What's the next step?
First, Teehee has to be confirmed by the tribal council of the Cherokee Nation in a special meeting on August 29.
Then Congress will need to take legislative action, Hoskin said. The tribe plans to continue its conversations with Oklahoma's representatives in the House and begin crafting ideas about what that legislation will look like.
"It will be a process that I think will be a long one, but it's one we're prepared to take," Hoskin said.
Will there be resistance to the move?
Maybe.
There's reason to believe that the US might not recognize its treaty with the Cherokee Nation. In the past, the Supreme Court has upheld legislation that infringes on US treaties with tribal nations, according to Rosser.
Some organizations could mount legal challenges to the Cherokee Nation's push for a delegate, Rosser added, potentially arguing that the move gives members of the tribe more representation in Congress than non-indigenous US citizens.

Rosser said it's also likely that the Cherokee Nation's appointment could face resistance from other tribes, particularly those who were also forced from their lands but weren't granted their own delegate through a treaty.
Other tribes might argue that a delegate for the Cherokee Nation threatens their own relationships with the US government, according to Rosser. The Cherokee Nation's delegate could end up becoming the de facto voice in Congress for all tribal nations, raising fears that the representative might favor the Cherokee Nation at the expense of other tribes.
Despite the potential hurdles, Hoskin said he is optimistic.
"I can boil this down very simply for the Congress," he said. "Does the Congress intend to keep its word to the Cherokee people? If the answer's yes, then Ms. Teehee will be seated."

No guarantees on whether or not they'll be seated (if I were a betting man I'd even bet against it), but it's an interesting and long talked about move finally coming to fruition. I think at least one other Native Nation has a similar treaty guaranteed right, it'll be interesting to see if they invoke that right as well after this.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Gandalf »

This is inherently awesome. I'm largely curious about how it'll be covered by the US media.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I wish them the best of luck. If they're legally entitled to it they should get it. Plus I very much doubt that they'll pick Republicans, so that's a plus (though obviously their rights being respected should not be contingent on which side they vote for).

Edit: Looks like they nominated a woman, too, which is a nice plus.

I expect thought that at best they will get a non-voting rep, like DC, since the treaty didn't specify.

A little wrinkle, though: would this be the first Rep not directly elected by the popular vote? The article says their nominee was selected by the tribal council, and I'm not sure what exactly that entails for the Cherokee nation.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by loomer »

We'll be watching this with great interest at my university. It's no third body of parliament but it's a start.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Broomstick »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-08-25 09:10pmA little wrinkle, though: would this be the first Rep not directly elected by the popular vote? The article says their nominee was selected by the tribal council, and I'm not sure what exactly that entails for the Cherokee nation.
I view that somewhat like the way senators used to be chosen by state legislators.
loomer wrote: 2019-08-26 12:52am We'll be watching this with great interest at my university. It's no third body of parliament but it's a start.
There is no way in hell you're going to get a "third body" in the US system, not without re-writing the constitution.

This will be no different in practice than the reps from Puerto Rico, DC, and the other US territories/possessions. Which is certainly better than nothing, and they do play a role. The notable thing is a Native nation getting any role at all, which is long past time it should have happened.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-08-26 05:20am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-08-25 09:10pmA little wrinkle, though: would this be the first Rep not directly elected by the popular vote? The article says their nominee was selected by the tribal council, and I'm not sure what exactly that entails for the Cherokee nation.
I view that somewhat like the way senators used to be chosen by state legislators.
loomer wrote: 2019-08-26 12:52am We'll be watching this with great interest at my university. It's no third body of parliament but it's a start.
There is no way in hell you're going to get a "third body" in the US system, not without re-writing the constitution.

This will be no different in practice than the reps from Puerto Rico, DC, and the other US territories/possessions. Which is certainly better than nothing, and they do play a role. The notable thing is a Native nation getting any role at all, which is long past time it should have happened.
Maybe, but I'd still argue that its one of the greatest stains on America today that our colonies, excuse me, territories don't get full voting representation.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by loomer »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-08-26 05:20am
loomer wrote: 2019-08-26 12:52am We'll be watching this with great interest at my university. It's no third body of parliament but it's a start.
There is no way in hell you're going to get a "third body" in the US system, not without re-writing the constitution.

This will be no different in practice than the reps from Puerto Rico, DC, and the other US territories/possessions. Which is certainly better than nothing, and they do play a role. The notable thing is a Native nation getting any role at all, which is long past time it should have happened.
Yes, I'm aware. This is why I said we'll be watching it with great interest where I am. It'll be interesting to see the benefits and drawbacks of this approach - something similar having been proposed for Australia in addition to more radical proposals - as the matter unfolds, and it'll allow us to better inform our approach to the same issue.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Broomstick »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-08-26 05:33amMaybe, but I'd still argue that its one of the greatest stains on America today that our colonies, excuse me, territories don't get full voting representation.
None of the states, prior to becoming states, had representation either. Indeed, one of the reasons for becoming a state is precisely that: achieving a real spot in Congress. This was not set up to leave brown people out in the cold, it's a continuation of a state of affairs dating back two centuries.

Puerto Rico should be admitted as a state as in 2012 a referendum indicated a majority desire that. Of course, that will not happen under Trump, even if Congress is the body that's supposed to make that happen given how the Senate is Trump's lapdog. Also, Puerto Rico as a state is probably NOT going to vote for the man who left them hungry, thirsty, cold, and in the dark after a hurricane so Trump has every incentive to prevent their statehood under his rule.

Of course, the next paragraph I can start arguing that a place like Guam SHOULD be a full state, in which case they get seats in the House and Senate. How that would work out with Native groups I'm not entirely sure. The Cherokee Nation has a population comparable to Wyoming (they're both around a half a million) so bringing them in as a state would not be very disruptive but there are hundreds of Native nations/tribes/groups in the US, nearly 600, some of them very small. Bringing each in as a separate state would be quite the upheaval and would result in such wildly disproportionate representation in the Senate I don't think the other 300 million people in the US would stand for the lopsidedness. Maybe there would need to be a minimum number of people to make a state - let's say half a million, giving the precedent of Wyoming, so smaller groups would have to form alliances (which is not unprecedented, with entities like the Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy predating the US - it still exists, about a quarter million people so by itself it wouldn't meet the Wyoming threshold) to come in to Congress. That would be a maximum of about 10 new states which would be an interesting shift the status quo, assuming all Natives would want to have tribal representation. That's not a safe assumption - some would, some wouldn't because doing so means giving up all pretense of independent sovereignty. It would also give the larger Native groups, like the Cherokee, disproportionate influence regarding Native matters.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Broomstick »

loomer wrote: 2019-08-26 07:04am Yes, I'm aware. This is why I said we'll be watching it with great interest where I am. It'll be interesting to see the benefits and drawbacks of this approach - something similar having been proposed for Australia in addition to more radical proposals - as the matter unfolds, and it'll allow us to better inform our approach to the same issue.
Definitely check out how the non-voting representation in the House has been working out over the centuries. Historically, once a territory had five thousand free male inhabitants (which phrasing alone tells you how old that rule is) it could send a non-voting representative to the Continental Congress, which means this pre-dates the current constitution.

Presently we have a delegate for the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands. Puerto Rico has a resident commissioner, which is similar but not exactly the same. The Philippines also had a resident commissioner until they gained full independence from the US.

They have influence, but not a lot of real power.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by loomer »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-08-26 07:22am
loomer wrote: 2019-08-26 07:04am Yes, I'm aware. This is why I said we'll be watching it with great interest where I am. It'll be interesting to see the benefits and drawbacks of this approach - something similar having been proposed for Australia in addition to more radical proposals - as the matter unfolds, and it'll allow us to better inform our approach to the same issue.
Definitely check out how the non-voting representation in the House has been working out over the centuries. Historically, once a territory had five thousand free male inhabitants (which phrasing alone tells you how old that rule is) it could send a non-voting representative to the Continental Congress, which means this pre-dates the current constitution.

Presently we have a delegate for the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands. Puerto Rico has a resident commissioner, which is similar but not exactly the same. The Philippines also had a resident commissioner until they gained full independence from the US.

They have influence, but not a lot of real power.
We have - Australia has long studied America as an example both good and bad of how to constitute governments, so we're already fairly aware of the non-voting delegates. The part that's going to be interesting to watch is who pushes back, which so-called traditions of the Western legal system and philosophical models are used to justify that pushback, and where and how the biases come out to their full ugly display both during the push for the position and in the aftermath.
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Re: Cherokee Nation announces plan to claim a treaty obligated delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives

Post by Elheru Aran »

One wonders if it would be viable for the existing smaller Native tribes to consolidate politically while remaining geographically diverse. As briefly discussed in the other thread (I'm sure you recall which one if you frequent this forum) it should be possible, in theory, with modern communications and travel, for a widely scattered population to be politically unified.

It's reasonably unlikely to become a practical reality given how crippled the American state has made the Native populations, but it would be nice if something like that could work out.
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