Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/au ... ing-odessa
Five people have been killed and 21 injured after a shooting near the twin towns of Midland and Odessa in west Texas. The gunman, who opened fire after his car was stopped by police on Saturday afternoon, was killed by police after being chased to a parking lot at an entertainment complex.

It was the second mass shooting in Texas this month. On 3 August a gunman killed 22 people and injured 24 at a Walmart in El Paso.

The Texas governor, Greg Abbott, said: “The first lady and I are heartbroken over this senseless and cowardly attack, and we offer our unwavering support to the victims, their families, and all the people of Midland and Odessa.”

Authorities said the incident started to unfold about 3.17pm local time when a Texas public safety trooper stopped a gold Honda. The driver of the car shot the trooper and drove west into the city of Odessa, officials said.

The suspect stole a mail truck and continued to shoot, authorities said. Police described the gunman as a white man in his mid-30s.

In the brief televised press conference, a police spokesman said the situation remained “very fluid, confusing” and did not divulge details of those killed and wounded.

Russell Tippin, chief executive of the Medical Center Health System in Odessa, said his hospital had received 14 victims.

“Their conditions vary – we’re not ready to speak further on that,” he said.

The hospital was on lockdown for safety reasons, Tippin added.

The mayor of Midland, Jerry Morales, earlier told CNN the injuries were not necessarily all from gunshots. One Midland police officer and one state law enforcement official were in surgery for non-life-threatening injuries, he said.

Earlier, both the Midland and Odessa police departments said there were two suspects in the shooting, which Midland police originally said began at a Home Depot store in Odessa.

A spokeswoman for Home Depot said in an email to the Guardian: “There was not a shooting in our store in Odessa [or Midland].”

The police officer who spoke to reporters said he could not confirm there was not a second suspect. Morales said: “We are hoping this is just one shooter and we have contained him.”

Morales said that when the shooter was pulled over “that’s when he took off and started shooting randomly”.

Morales added: “I do not know anything about the person or what the motive was.”

The suspect was shot and killed in the parking lot of the Cinergy complex, he said, adding that it was between Odessa and Midland. Midland and Odessa are in the western part of Texas, about 20 miles apart. Cinergy is a cinema and entertainment chain.

The Midland police department first announced reports of “an active shooter” in Odessa and advised people to stay off the roads.

On Facebook, the department added: “We believe there are two shooters in two separate vehicles. One suspect is believed to be at the Cinergy in Midland and the other is believed to be driving on Loop 250 in Midland.”

Odessa police said a suspect “hijacked a US mail carrier truck” and added: “Subject (possibly 2) is currently driving around Odessa shooting at random people.”

Amid the confusion, the University of Texas of the Permian Basin was placed on lockdown.

The White House said Donald Trump had been briefed. The president was monitoring the approach of Hurricane Dorian from his golf club in Virginia and from the Maryland retreat at Camp David.

Early on Saturday evening, Trump tweeted: “Just briefed by Attorney General Barr about the shootings in Texas. FBI and law enforcement is fully engaged. More to follow.”

After the El Paso shooting and another the next day in Dayton, Ohio in which nine people were killed and more than 20 injured, Trump seemed to edge towards accepting some sort of bipartisan move for gun control reform. He soon retreated, repeating talking points promoted by the National Rifle Association.

On Saturday the Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren, a contender for the Democratic nomination to run against Trump, tweeted: “I’m heartsick for the victims of this latest mass shooting in Odessa and Midland. We shouldn’t have to live with this near daily fear and horror. We’ve already lost far too many to gun violence –Congress must act now.”

Another Democratic contender, the former El Paso congressman Beto O’Rourke, said: “Our hearts are with Midland, Odessa, and everyone in West Texas who has to endure this again. More information is forthcoming, but here’s what we know: we need to end this epidemic.”
Again. And again. And again. Name one other country that isn't facing invasion, occupation, or civil war which has this level of gun violence.

To be honest, I often feel as though the US effectively is in a state of low-intensity civil war- just not a conventional one with armies or factions (and thus not one that can be dealt with militarily). Just an endless stream of fanatics and nut jobs with easy access to guns.

If there is a side, its the NRA vs. everybody else.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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To be honest, I often feel as though the US effectively is in a state of low-intensity civil war- just not a conventional one with armies or factions (and thus not one that can be dealt with militarily). Just an endless stream of fanatics and nut jobs with easy access to guns.
That's what happens when an entire society is based on dog eat dog, little to no safety net, and a legal system (not a Justice system) skewed to make things worse.

For all the ambulance chasing and glorifying from the media, it's pretty easy to forget that for every mass shooting on the right side of the tracks involving the class of people society actually gives a shit about, there's more on the other side that go unreported. Because it's not like those poors and brown folk matter.

Not dismissing the horror that these people went through, just keeping it in personal perspective. As you said, it's pretty much a war and has been for decades. It's just recently said wars has been spilling into the good side of town, so now the powers that be have to pretend to care. Well, about the lives of their bases anyway. Neither the media, politicians, or all those awareness groups and certianly not facebook gives a solitary shit of what goes on daily in places like the poor side of Chicago.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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The "good" side of the tracks tolerated the violence when it didn't affected them, never seeming to care or realize that sooner or later it spills into their back yard.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Apparently this whole situation began when a state trooper pulled over the shooter for failing to signal before turning left. He fired on the two man trooper car and then fled eventually hijacking a USPS vehicle while shooting at indiscriminately at people.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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You gotta wonder about what was triggered in that one....

THIS one I believe might be a crazy, given that his spree seemed spontaneous rather than like some of the planned-in-advance massacres, but it's just one more example of our current gun laws being a joke and a crying need for something better in their place.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by Highlord Laan »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-01 05:10am The "good" side of the tracks tolerated the violence when it didn't affected them, never seeming to care or realize that sooner or later it spills into their back yard.
With the way the economy is going and with the police going harder and harder into jackbooted thug territory, combined with ivory tower shitheels in their gated communities tearing apart everything that could be used as a safety net, uhmurrika ain't seen nothing yet in terms of violence.

Desperate people in bad situations tend to be fans of desperate measures. Think its bad now? Wait until the violence starts getting focused and organized.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Highlord Laan wrote: 2019-09-01 07:06pm
Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-01 05:10am The "good" side of the tracks tolerated the violence when it didn't affected them, never seeming to care or realize that sooner or later it spills into their back yard.
With the way the economy is going and with the police going harder and harder into jackbooted thug territory, combined with ivory tower shitheels in their gated communities tearing apart everything that could be used as a safety net, uhmurrika ain't seen nothing yet in terms of violence.

Desperate people in bad situations tend to be fans of desperate measures. Think its bad now? Wait until the violence starts getting focused and organized.
What do you think the Trump Regime's border policy is? Organized, focused violence against minorities, by the biggest white supremacist gang of them all.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by MKSheppard »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-01 05:33pm You gotta wonder about what was triggered in that one....
from another board:

Guy was fired from his truck driving job with Schlumberger just hours before the traffic stop.

Mile marker 131 on I-20 where the initial traffic stop and shooting of the DPS officer happened is the turn off to a main Schlumberger office, shop and trucking yard complex.

Dude was headed in to shoot up his ex-employer when he was pulled over.


Some more speculation is that the dude pissed hot on a random drug test; and as such lost his CDL certs and card(s).

This makes the most sense; because other people there have noted that in the Texas Oilfields, being fired is:

"It’s considered a 1/2 day off and an opportunity for .50 more an hour. They have jobs as soon as they go apply again. As long as you have a semi clean driving record and can pass a piss test your hired."

The initial DPS stop was officially for failing to use his left lane blinker to change lanes, but some other information is that he was driving erratically and swerving across the road; this makes sense if the dude was stupid enough to try and load/handle a rifle while driving a vehicle; which fits in with his general level of intelligence -- it's not that hard to handle random DOT random drug tests.
but it's just one more example of our current gun laws being a joke and a crying need for something better in their place.
Explain please. Only things on his record were:

2001 misdemeanor charge for trespassing (class B) and resisting arrest which was was listed as a “deferred adjudication.” In the state of Texas, it’s a type of probation in which the conviction is kept off the defendant’s criminal record.

2014 misdemeanor charge for public intoxication (class C)

2018 misdemeanor traffic violation -- dismissed by court on 17 August 2018.

Class B misdemeanors in Texas are punishable by a fine of up to $2000 and up to 180 days (6 months) in jail or both.

Class C misdemeanors in Texas are punishable by a fine of up to $500. There is no jail time for a class C misdemeanor.

According to federal law; NICS does not consider misdemeanors as disqualifying unless the following criteria are met:

* "Domestic Violence" of any type
* Punishable by a term of imprisonment for more than 2 years (24 months)

The Class C charge is just a fine with no jail time; so he'd be passed by NICS.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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Explain?

How about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?

If this many crazy/enraged/whatever people are getting ahold of guns and shooting down dozens of people on a regular basis then clearly our current gun laws are woefully inadequate at protecting law-abiding citizens from bad actors.

The math is simple. 2/3 of the US does NOT own guns. If the 1/3 third that does own guns does not get their shit together and work with the majority on effective ways to keep guns out the hands of bad people then then eventually the majority will get tired of being gunned down in church or synagogue or mosque or shopping mall or movie theater or just in some fucking random spot and WILL impose upon the minority restrictions that will be far more onerous than a compromise solution would be. The police, who are those most likely to get shot at work, will throw in with gun restrictions for civilians out of enlightened self-interest if nothing else.

Yes, there is a 2nd amendment. I will remind you that additional amendments can be added to the constitution, and have been over the centuries. Make enough people angry enough, and frightened enough, and there will be another written.

I require more licensing to drive a car than to own and operate a gun, and that makes no fucking sense at all anymore.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by MKSheppard »

Some more information has been revealed.

* Dude may have been driving a stolen car in the first place. Which might explain why he wigged out and decided to shoot it out with the Texas cops, instead of smiling, taking the ticket, and then proceeding to workplace; since running the registration would reveal it's not owned by him.

* Governor Abbot claimed earlier today that he failed a background check and did not acquire the rifle from a FFL; BATFE confirmed Abbot's claim that the NICS check was denied. Which is odd, since all he has in his record are just MISDs that should not disqualify him. I guess we'll know more tomorrow.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by MKSheppard »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-02 05:44pmHow about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?

If this many crazy/enraged/whatever people are getting ahold of guns and shooting down dozens of people on a regular basis then clearly our current gun laws are woefully inadequate at protecting law-abiding citizens from bad actors.

...........snip.............

I require more licensing to drive a car than to own and operate a gun, and that makes no fucking sense at all anymore.
Maryland requires licensing to buy a handgun, has had it since 2013; part of the licensing is being fingerprinted and having your background washed through like 4 different databases, including the Dept of Mental Health database; and then you have to take training, before you can get your license. We also have 7 day wait on handgun purchases, and a 1 handgun a month limit, plus 100% registration of handguns (dealer sales since 1966, private since 1996) and yet, Baltimore is....

You live in Illinois I believe. In order to possess a firearm or purchase ammunition legally in Illinois; you have to have a licensing card issued by the State Police. That requires fingerprinting as well; plus training plus a long wait for State Police to return your card, and yet Chicago is...

I believe you said something about "the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities"? :angelic:

PS: You don't need fingerprinting for a driver's license, unless you're getting a HAZMAT cert.

PPS: If you want to take the car analogy further -- you only need a license to drive a car on public roads -- privately maintained roads need no licensing either. Plus cars got crazy powerful as well. 186 hp V-8s in 1986 Caprice Sedans, vs 240 hp V-6s in current Chevy sedans in 2019. If we took the car analogy to it's fullest end; you'd only need a license for shooting your gun on public land (i.e. state managed forestry and game lands), but on privately owned lands, you could hunt deer with 40mm Bofors Autocannon. :D

PPPS: Our current anti gun AG and the State Democrat party have discovered that despite banning "assault weapons" in 2013 through the Firearms Safety Act of 2013; AK-47s are still buyable in Maryland if they are classified as pistols with braces; like the Dayton OH shooter used.
Maryland’s attorney general is urging lawmakers to update the state’s assault weapons ban to outlaw the type of gun used in the recent mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio.

“It’s a loophole in our law,” said Attorney General Brian Frosh, who as a Democratic state senator pushed for the passage of the Firearm Safety Act of 2013, which outlawed most assault weapons in Maryland.

“It’s outrageous,” Frosh said. “That kind of weapon should not be on the streets, period.”

The man who opened fire Aug. 4 in an entertainment district in Dayton, killing nine and injuring more than two dozen others, used an Anderson Manufacturing .223-caliber AM-15 gun, according to police in that city. It’s been described as an AR-15-style pistol.

The manufacturer has not sought approval from the Maryland Handgun Roster Board to sell the exact model used in Dayton — the .223-caliber AM-15, according to Maryland State Police.

But the board, which reviews gun models for their quality and "utility for legitimate sporting activities, self-protection, or law enforcement, " has approved for sale a similar gun made by the company, a .300-caliber AM-15.
Image

This is classified as OK for "legitimate sporting activities, self-protection, or law enforcement" according to the Maryland State Police which carefully reviews and approves every single handgun design that is approved for sale in Maryland. :P
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-02 05:44pmHow about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?
When politicians do fuck all after massacres, and suffer no electoral penalty, is the answer to your question "because the electorate wills it?"
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-09-03 05:49pm
Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-02 05:44pmHow about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?
When politicians do fuck all after massacres, and suffer no electoral penalty, is the answer to your question "because the electorate wills it?"
I'd put more blame on the electorate if we didn't live in a country with massive voter supression and gerrymandering. Remember, the Democrats at this point are mostly on board with major gun control reforms- its the Republicans blocking it, and their power would likely not be nearly as great if we actually had a system based on "one person, one vote".
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

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MKSheppard wrote: 2019-09-02 07:59pmYou live in Illinois I believe. In order to possess a firearm or purchase ammunition legally in Illinois; you have to have a licensing card issued by the State Police. That requires fingerprinting as well; plus training plus a long wait for State Police to return your card, and yet Chicago is...
No, sir, I live in Indiana.

I can buy all the ammunition I want in this state without showing any sort of gun license or even any sort of ID whatsoever. I can buy as many guns as I want in any day of the year. I don't even need a permit to buy a gun, I just need to submit to an instant background check for the purpose. As I have never been convicted of a felony, domestic battery, have no record or drug abuse or mental incompetence that's no problem for me.

In other words, where I live I can legally purchase an AR-15 and all the ammo I can carry with no license required, and walk out of the store with it the same day.

In other words, a lot less restrictive than where you live or across the border in Illinois.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by Broomstick »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-09-03 05:49pm
Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-02 05:44pmHow about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?
When politicians do fuck all after massacres, and suffer no electoral penalty, is the answer to your question "because the electorate wills it?"
When the majority thought it was a problem of the slums and gang-bangers they didn't give a fuck. When it gets to the point that the majority feel threatened then maybe something will be done. Maybe.
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If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by madd0ct0r »

I note Shep started his argument with "background checks wouldnt stop this one" and segued semi-geacefully (but at least honestly) into "background checks didnt stop this one from getting an illegal gun".

Its just such a weird country. Jaywalking, drunk walking but guns ok.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by MKSheppard »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-09-03 05:56pmI'd put more blame on the electorate if we didn't live in a country with massive voter supression and gerrymandering. Remember, the Democrats at this point are mostly on board with major gun control reforms- its the Republicans blocking it, and their power would likely not be nearly as great if we actually had a system based on "one person, one vote".
Earlier this year, Democrats proposed a whole raft of anti gun bills in Maryland; amongst them:

* Repealing the HBAR exemption for AR-15s in 5.56mm caliber -- currently you can own one in 5.56mm if it has a "match" heavy barrel; but not the "light pencil" barrel that's standard. So manufacturers make MD-compliant HBAR 5.56mm AR-15s

* Creating a Long Gun Qualification License (LQL) for rifles and shotguns, with the same requirements as the Handgun Qualification License (HQL)

* Requiring long guns to be transferred on Form 77R, i.o.w. registered with the State Police

* 1 gun a month limit for long guns.

* 7 day wait for long guns.

All of the proposals went down in flames, in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by MKSheppard »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2019-09-03 06:37pm I note Shep started his argument with "background checks wouldnt stop this one" and segued semi-geacefully (but at least honestly) into "background checks didnt stop this one from getting an illegal gun".
Lots of information is very fluid on this case.

Apparently he did work once for Schlumberger, then moved to Journey Oilfield Services, where he was fired.

When he was fired, both Journey Oilfield Services and him called 911 to complain about each other. :P

He also called the FBI to complain in a long rambling statement -- FBI also says he was a "frequent flier" with their phone lines.

FBI now says he apparently was NOT planning to shoot up his workplace; so who knows what the fuck was going on here.

BATFE is very tightlipped on it; but rumors are that the NICS denial was a Form 4473 11(f) denial:

Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?
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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

MKSheppard wrote: 2019-09-03 07:08pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-09-03 05:56pmI'd put more blame on the electorate if we didn't live in a country with massive voter supression and gerrymandering. Remember, the Democrats at this point are mostly on board with major gun control reforms- its the Republicans blocking it, and their power would likely not be nearly as great if we actually had a system based on "one person, one vote".
Earlier this year, Democrats proposed a whole raft of anti gun bills in Maryland; amongst them:

* Repealing the HBAR exemption for AR-15s in 5.56mm caliber -- currently you can own one in 5.56mm if it has a "match" heavy barrel; but not the "light pencil" barrel that's standard. So manufacturers make MD-compliant HBAR 5.56mm AR-15s

* Creating a Long Gun Qualification License (LQL) for rifles and shotguns, with the same requirements as the Handgun Qualification License (HQL)

* Requiring long guns to be transferred on Form 77R, i.o.w. registered with the State Police

* 1 gun a month limit for long guns.

* 7 day wait for long guns.

All of the proposals went down in flames, in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1.
To clarify, I was referring to the national level. I understand that things can be somewhat different at the state level.
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Re: Another mass shooting. At least five dead and 21 injured.

Post by Gandalf »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-03 06:31pm
Gandalf wrote: 2019-09-03 05:49pm
Broomstick wrote: 2019-09-02 05:44pmHow about YOU explain why the current situation of mass shootings - sometimes multiple ones in the course of 24 hours - is an acceptable status quo? Not to mention the daily carnage to innocent bystanders in our largest cities?
When politicians do fuck all after massacres, and suffer no electoral penalty, is the answer to your question "because the electorate wills it?"
When the majority thought it was a problem of the slums and gang-bangers they didn't give a fuck. When it gets to the point that the majority feel threatened then maybe something will be done. Maybe.
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