Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

[Raw Shark]

You've seen the stories for the past few years. I get it - He's firmly beholden to the coal industry and also enjoying his once in a lifetime opportunity to line his pockets as the swing vote in the US Senate. That makes sense. But this latest thing threw me for a loop. I thought if there was one thing he could agree on that would appeal to his base, it was, "Rob from the rich; give to the poor." West Virginia has always had a strong, "Fuck the rich," vibe to me. What happened here? Have I completely misunderstood this region of my own country, or is this guy shooting himself in the foot?

West Virginia natives and residents, you are requested at the white phone.

[Broomstick]

Former (and very brief) WV resident chiming in for an opinion that may or may not be worthless:

The power in WV is NOT the unwashed masses at the bottom of society - it's the robber barons at the top. Yes, the lower echelons have a Robin Hood mentality because that's a survival tactic but that's because they aren't the power in that state. Machin IS taking cues from his base if by that you mean the people who actually keep him in power.

When the little people in WV dare to stand up for themselves they get shot and bombed

So, yeah, you may not have a great understanding of the state.

[LadyTevar]

1. Manchin is a DINO.
2. Manchin's family got money, and this would hit his family
3. This would hit all his buddies who are coal barons and other scum of the earth.
4. Manchin's not given a shit about us peons for the last decade.

So, yeah, not fuckin' surprised he did this. I've sent letters, Ive bitched to him via his email, but I'd get more attention yelling at a brick wall.

[Gandalf]

If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?

[Crazedwraith]

Because they'd rather have the majority in the senate with a DINO than be a minority of proper Democrats? The Senate Leader has significant powers right?

[MKSheppard]

But this latest thing threw me for a loop.

Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.

[Ralin]

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.

They can if they don't spend most of their money buying things.

[Coop D'etat]

If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?

Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.

Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.

[Gandalf]

If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?

Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.

This reminds me of the saying that went along the lines of "A Republican in California is a Democrat in Texas."

There's no centralised definition of Democrat, because that's just how it's set up. It's why I find it hard to call people like Manchin a DINO. He's just WV's version of a Democrat.

Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.

Also this.

[LadyTevar]

If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?

Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.

Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.

THIS.
ALL OF THIS.

Like his Uncle A. James. Manchin before him, Joe Manchin is so deep in the "Machine" that runs the WV elections, he's pretty much the only viable candidate. He's got all the Senior Citizens voting for him because he's a MANCHIN, he was the Governor, he's "one of us". (Did you know some of his uncles died in a mine explosion! They're a Coal Family! They UnderStand!)
Yeah, go take a look at the former Senator A. James Manchin, and you'll understand the playbook Joe's been running by.

And because he's that deep in the Machine (and People's Mind/Memory), there's really no one who can run against him. Ojeda tried, and then said the wrong thing at the wrong time and the WV Media tore him apart. Ojeda wasn't in the "Machine" so I'm pretty sure he was ran out deliberately. Pity, I liked where Ojeda was coming from.

Same thing with Sen. Moore-Capito -- she ran on being former Gov Arch Moore's daughter, and won because people liked Arch Moore.

And, yes, in WV, many of the voters, especially the older more conservative ones, are DINO, whether they know it or not. They've drank the GOP's talking points for decades and while they remain Democrats on paper, in the big elections (Senator, Governor, President), they vote for the GOP damn near every time. (Because GUNS! Because ABORTION! Because IMMIGRANTS! And yes, because COAL IS KING!)

It also doesn't help that WV's Presidential Election is "Winner Take All" even if they win by 51%.

I have voted every election since I was 18. I'm still gonna vote, because the Boomers are Dying and EVENTUALLY someone intelligent will break the Manchin hold. Until then... well... Manchin's got the Senator Nomination wrapped up tight. I either vote for him, or vote for whatever Trumpist Idiot is running on the GOP side (and yes, the most recent political ads still had GOP people claiming they 'believe in Trump' or 'support Trump')

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.

[LadyTevar]

Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.

I'm going to assume you mean "Obama Presidency" being one where the GOP did it's very best to block every single thing Obama wanted done.

Because it didn't come across that way, and could be taken as racist or otherwise insulting.

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.

I'm going to assume you mean "Obama Presidency" being one where the GOP did it's very best to block every single thing Obama wanted done.

Because it didn't come across that way, and could be taken as racist or otherwise insulting.

The Obama Presidency, after the GOP managed to take both houses, was... obstructionist to the extreme. There is no denying it.

We're currently on a razor-thin margin, so you must stop thinking ideological purity and think more rationally. Hell, the former is the very reason that we're in this god-forsaken mess in the first place.

[LadyTevar]

The Obama Presidency, after the GOP managed to take both houses, was... obstructionist to the extreme. There is no denying it.

We're currently on a razor-thin margin, so you must stop thinking ideological purity and think more rationally. Hell, the former is the very reason that we're in this god-forsaken mess in the first place.

The Obama Presidency was not Obstructionist, as your wording above implies.

The GOP-lead Congress was Obstructionist, and Mitch McConnell is still sitting on over 400 House-approved measures that he refuses to let the Senate SEE, much less debate and vote on.

But this has very little to do with Joe Manchin. Although, once the news about McConnell blocking and sitting on House-approved measures came out, Manchin's emails started bragging that Manchin was "talking to McConnell to get the normal flow of work in order".

[Raw Shark]

But this latest thing threw me for a loop.

Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.

You're not wrong.

[Ralin]

But this latest thing threw me for a loop.

Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.

You're not wrong.

Yeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.

[LadyTevar]

"Increase the Sales Tax"

REALLY? The Sales Tax is already an unfair tax, putting most of the pressure on working-class-poor like me, who spends $106 for every $100 in food. That might not seem a lot, but when you have $400 to spend on food, bills, utilities, gas/insurance for car? Oh, yeah, gas tax is 20% on top of that 6% sales tax too.

SALES TAXES don't hurt the rich. SALES TAXES hurt the POOR.

The only tax that will hurt the rich is Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, "Your money is just sitting in a bank gaining interest" Tax. Get the tax backets back to the 1950s, when they were charged 30-50%, while the poor were charged 6%, THEN IT WILL BE FAIR.

[His Divine Shadow]

Capital controls, taxes on wealth transfers overboard, hit squads on tax evaders bin laden style.

[LadyTevar]

Well.. Manchin did pull it off. 50/50 split on the bill, but VP Tie-breaker Vote got it passed.

[Raw Shark]

Yeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.

Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?

[Solauren]

Yeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.

Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?

Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.

[LadyTevar]

Yeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.

Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?

Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.

It is Very Very Sad how true this is

[Solauren]

Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?

Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.

It is Very Very Sad how true this is

I work for the government in tax collection. This is how some legitimate corner-stores end up operating.