Manhunt underway after American health insurance boss shot dead outside New York hotel

[bilateralrope]

Finding prison guards who are willing to look the other way may be difficult.

[Khaat]

When I read about the "assassin in a game", my first thought was Steve Jackson Games "Killer", where you actually.... Anyway.

[LadyTevar]

When I read about the "assassin in a game", my first thought was Steve Jackson Games "Killer", where you actually.... Anyway.

Hell, they totally forgot about Assassin's Creed, where you actually DO go kill people in power.

But I guess he didn't play that and AmongUs was the closest game they could stick it on.

[bilateralrope]

When I read about the "assassin in a game", my first thought was Steve Jackson Games "Killer", where you actually.... Anyway.

Hell, they totally forgot about Assassin's Creed, where you actually DO go kill people in power.

But I guess he didn't play that and AmongUs was the closest game they could stick it on.

Or maybe they would blame the Sniper Elite games. The ones known for their xray shots of kills. Especially testacle shots.

But they have to pick from the games they know he's played. Which means he hasn't played any FPS games or they ran the article before getting to see his game library.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Finding prison guards who are willing to look the other way may be difficult.

They managed it for Epstein

[bilateralrope]

Finding guards who hate a pedophile would be much easier.

[Lord Revan]

Also Epstein was rich and quite jerk in terms of personality to those he considered "lesser" from what I've gathered.

It's so much easier to find someone willing to look other way when you eliminate Epstein then it would be to get them to do it for the suspect here (I mean their biggest "sin" would be that they killed a person who probably was making things worse for many of the guards, after all "prison guard" isn't a profession where one gets rich from the salary you get.)

[Solauren]

Getting guards to leave a prisoner unattended is stupid easy.

Just have them called out of the area, and tell them a replacement is enroute. You just need to put guards in place initially that are two stupid to wait for the replacement to arrive, and a replacement that is slow and lazy. They leave before the replacement woudl arrive in 5 minutes, and slow and lazy takes 20 minutes to get there. Combine with 'oops, he had a belt and socks', and a prisoner that his broken, and ta-da; one suicide.

[Zwinmar]

I know some guards , these in particular get paid the equivalent of 27 an hour or more. Many are some of the most corrupt people you would ever care to meet. They legitimately think that people behind bars are children at best and subhuman vermin at worst. Obviously this doesn't apply to all only to some I have had the distinct displeasure to know. Additionally, they have constant problems with the incompetent new guys getting things over the old timers cause a situation where the old timers are only hanging on until retirement: things like the new ones getting weekends off while the old timers have to work, among other woes.

[Solauren]

One of my cousins used to work as a guard at Kingston Pen here in Canada. She said much the same thing.

[Raw Shark]

I'm going to break character a little here from what you might expect, and say that in my jail experiences the COs have mostly been okay. They just seemed like people doing a job. But that's just anecdotal; everybody's different.

ETA: The only one who was really aggressive was the pretty lady. I suspect that she felt threatened by the situation and came out like a hardass to get ahead of it, maybe.

[Big Orange]

*Snip*
IF what we've heard about his back surgery is true, then the 'mind fog' could be whatever pain medication he's been prescribed

And x-ray images show apparent complications from his painful looking back surgery and he supposedly went "off the grid", supposedly not seen by his family and friends for many weeks or months leading up to the bizarre planned murder of the CEO (going down his angry rabbit hole).

And the "fun" has started yet with his court case (also the jail inmates are treating Luigi like a folk hero, so a Epstein type suicide that seems a little too sudden and convenient is unlikely).

[Raw Shark]

Magic 8-Ball:

Luigi has a pretty easy time inside at first. Popular, well-regarded. Did something wrong that the rest of the guys don't exactly object to, much. But then one day he's found hanging by a belt. Imagine that. Seemed okay. How could that happen?

[bilateralrope]

It could be worse. There could be a fatal 'accident' when he gets extradited to New York.

Well, worse for health insurance companies. If anything happens to him, they will be blamed. While they have no reason to worry about who he might implicate if he starts talking.

[Big Orange]

Luigi will easily be made a martyr, maybe even a detonation trigger for a possible Civil War 2.0: Megacorp Boogaloo....

[Zaune]

Magic 8-Ball:

Luigi has a pretty easy time inside at first. Popular, well-regarded. Did something wrong that the rest of the guys don't exactly object to, much. But then one day he's found hanging by a belt. Imagine that. Seemed okay. How could that happen?

Might not even be the result of somne kind of plot, that. How good to you think an average prison doictor is at pain management for chronic conditions?

[Solauren]

There is no reason to 'silence' Luigi, and every reason to keep him alive.

Dead, he's a Martyr, and may inspire copy-cats.

Alive, you can paint him as someone that didn't follow doctors orders/was the unfortunate victim of malpractice, and that lead to him having emotional and mental disorders. Someone to be pitied, and ignored.

Which do you think is the more desirable outcome for the government and 'powers that be' as involved in this?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

And so it begins.

Luigi Mangione has been charged with murder as an act of terrorism over the killing of health insurance CEO Brian Thompson, prosecutors said on Tuesday.

Mangione was already charged with murder last week, but the terror allegation is new.

Under New York law, such a charge can be brought when an alleged crime is “intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policies of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion and affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination or kidnapping”.

Thompson, 50, was shot dead as he walked to a Manhattan hotel where UnitedHealthcare - the United States' biggest medical insurer - was holding an investor conference.

“This was a frightening, well-planned, targeted murder that was intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation,” Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg said at a news conference on Tuesday.

“It occurred in one of the most bustling parts of our city, threatened the safety of local residents and tourists alike, commuters and businesspeople just starting out on their day.”

After days of intense police searches and publicity, Mangione was spotted at a McDonald’s in Altoona, Pennsylvania, and was arrested.

New York police officials said Mangione was carrying the gun used to kill Thompson, a passport and various fake IDs, including one that the suspected gunman presented to check into a New York hostel.

The 26-year-old was charged with gun and forgery offences in Pennsylvania and was denied bail.

His Pennsylvania lawyer has questioned the evidence for the forgery charge and the legal grounding for the gun charge.

Speaking to ITV News' US partner CNN, his lawyer Karen Freidman Agnifilo said Mangione will not fight his extradition to New York.

He has two court hearings scheduled for Thursday in Pennsylvania, including the extradition hearing.

Mangione’s New York lawyer has not commented on the case.

[LadyTevar]

NY Prosecutors May Have Trouble Proving Murder Terrorism Charges

CNN
—
The indictment of UnitedHealthCare CEO shooting suspect Luigi Mangione for murder as an act of terrorism involved multiple factors, prosecutors say, including a “frightening, well-planned, targeted” killing, as well as an outpouring of praise for the suspect and the tangible fear reported by executives since the shooting – but some legal experts caution the charge may be an overreach.

An unsealed, 11-count indictment on Tuesday charged Mangione, 26, with one count of murder in the first degree and two counts of murder in the second degree in the fatal shooting of Brian Thompson on December 4, along with other weapon and forgery charges.

A charge of murder in the first degree is rare in New York because it requires special elements related to the crime to be charged.

Under state law, murder in the first degree only applies to a narrow list of aggravating circumstances, including when the victim is a judge, a police officer or a first responder, or when the killing involves a murder-for-hire or an intent to commit terrorism.

At a news conference on Tuesday announcing the charges, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and other top law enforcement officials said Mangione intended to intimidate and “evoke terror” with the killing.

Bragg emphasized the brazen shooting took place “in one of the most bustling parts of our city, threatening the safety of local residents and tourists alike, and commuters and businesspeople just starting out on their day.”

In the weeks since Thompson’s killing, officials have seen a “shocking and appalling celebration of cold-blooded murder,” said NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch at the same news conference.

“Social media has erupted with praise for this cowardly attack.”

“It was a cold and calculated crime that stole a life and put New Yorkers at risk,” Tisch continued. “We don’t celebrate murders, and we don’t lionize the killing of anyone, and any attempt to rationalize this is vile, reckless and offensive to our deeply held principles of justice.”

The next steps Mangione’s of legal process will be ruled on by a judge in Pennsylvania on Thursday at his extradition hearing.

Mangione faces a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole if convicted, Bragg’s office said.

Some legal experts believe terrorism charge is an overreach
An NYPD intelligence report previously obtained by CNN said investigators believed Mangione appeared to be driven by anger against the health insurance industry and “corporate greed.”

The killing of Thompson, a husband and father of two, laid bare many Americans’ fury toward the health care industry and Mangione garnered widespread support on social media after his arrest.

After the shooting, security firms were inundated with calls from concerned corporations asking to help keep their business leaders safe.

The intel report warned online rhetoric could “signal an elevated threat facing executives in the near-term.”

“Let me say this plainly, there is no heroism in what Mangione did,” said Tisch.

“This was a senseless act of violence.”

However, some legal experts contend prosecutors in New York overreached by charging Mangione with terrorism in the indictment.

One criminal defense attorney, Stacy Schneider, told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Tuesday prosecutors might face more challenges proving that argument in court.

“This victim was shot in the back of the head, not the front of the head, on a quiet sidewalk, early in the morning, in the dark. It doesn’t appear from a defense attorney’s perspective that this was intended to be a terroristic type of murder,” Schneider said.

Mangione’s defense team, according to Schneider, could move to dismiss the top count of murder against him, arguing the reactions following the killing were “unintended consequences.”

“The murder happened first, the outcry was second and totally unpredictable,” Schneider said. “So, I think this might be a case of overreaching on murder one.”

Including terrorism in the indictment – making Mangione eligible for life imprisonment – may be part of a broader strategy by the district attorney, according to former federal prosecutor Jessica Roth.

“By including that, the district attorney is setting up the conditions for a plea to a lesser charge where he has the possibility of, at some point, getting out of prison,” Roth said Tuesday on “Anderson Cooper 360.”

“If there isn’t a plea, it’s also setting up the condition for a jury compromise on that lesser charge,” Roth added.

Throwing the book at Mangione risks backlash from the public, which in some corners has treated the murder suspect as a folk hero, said criminal defense attorney Jeremy Saland, who is not representing Mangione.

“If you kill a police officer, that’s one thing. If you kill a witness to a crime, that’s something else, too, that would rise to this first-degree homicide or murder,” Saland told CNN’s John Berman.

“If I’m someone whose brother or sister or sibling was murdered on the street, why should a CEO’s murder be treated differently than my loved one?”

Terrorism statute ‘borne out’ in threats, fear among CEOs, officials say
Rebecca Weiner, deputy commissioner of the NYPD’s Intelligence & Counterterrorism unit, said at the briefing the intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population under New York’s terrorism statute is “very much borne out” in the reaction across corporations and “torrent of online threats.”

“We’ve had real world activity that the police commissioner flagged, which is abhorrent, and it causes concern,” Weiner said, adding the NYPD is working with its corporate security partners to ensure they are informed of best practices of flagging concerns.

“Not just general ambient concerns, but specific threats they might be receiving, that, a few weeks ago they might have written off as just noise in the online environment that they now take seriously,” Weiner continued.

“This was a killing that was intended to evoke terror and we’ve seen that reaction. This was not an ordinary killing,” Bragg said.

“Not to suggest that any killing is ordinary, but this was extraordinary.”

CNN’s Laura Dolan, John Miller, Shimon Prokupecz, Kara Scannell, Matt Egan, Lauren del Valle and Andy Rose contributed to this report.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

How can there be two counts of second degree murder when there was one fatality?

[bilateralrope]

How can there be two counts of second degree murder when there was one fatality?

I'm going to guess that the law says that it's second degree murder if conditions a or b are met. Both are met here, so they get to throw in two different counts.

Prosecutors love to pile on all the charges they can at the start. It makes for scarier headlines, might increase what they can get in the plea deal and, even when they know a charge won't last until trial, it still costs the defense time and money getting them squashed.

[Solauren]

How can there be two counts of second degree murder when there was one fatality?

They revived the guy from one death, but then he died again?

[Patrick Ogaard]

How can there be two counts of second degree murder when there was one fatality?

That one's easy enough. First degree is a high bar to vault, and if the jury has only that as a choice, then an acquittal means Mangione can never be touched again by the state authorities for the killing. So, three different levels of murder, with three different heights of bar to vault over. Also, there is the matter of giving the prosecution leeway for a plea bargain. Otherwise there's no room for negotiation.

[bilateralrope]

Legal Eagle put up a video on the terrorism charge. There are two interesting points:
- Murder 2 only requires proving that it was deliberate. Murder 1 with the terrorism charge requires proving why he did it. Let him talk about why and he stands a higher chance of getting the jury to nullify.
- There are also Federal charges. Normally the feds can come to an agreement with a state over which prosecution goes first. However, the NY prosecutor is Alvin Bragg. The one who got Trump convicted. While the feds will be Trump's DOJ. An agreement seems unlikely.