Yogi wrote:How about, it is not our job to step in and intervine each time a dictator mistreats its citizens (and if it was, there are plenty of OTHER places to go as well.)
So in other words let brutal dictators any time they want, not matter if we can (reasonably)) do something about it.
Stormbringer wrote:So in other words let brutal dictators any time they want, not matter if we can (reasonably)) do something about it.
There are conflicts and evil dictators all over the world. If being an evil dictator is reason enough to kick Saddam out, then you are a hypocrite for not arguing just as loudly for the ouster of all the others as well.
(Note: This does not apply to all the pro-war people. Master of Ossus, for example, does argue for the eventual elimination of other opressive governments, making him not a hypocrite.)
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!
Yogi wrote:There are conflicts and evil dictators all over the world. If being an evil dictator is reason enough to kick Saddam out, then you are a hypocrite for not arguing just as loudly for the ouster of all the others as well.
(Note: This does not apply to all the pro-war people. Master of Ossus, for example, does argue for the eventual elimination of other opressive governments, making him not a hypocrite.)
I'm of the opinion that when we can realistically do something about those sort of dictators we should.
Stormbringer wrote:So in other words let brutal dictators any time they want, not matter if we can (reasonably)) do something about it.
There are conflicts and evil dictators all over the world. If being an evil dictator is reason enough to kick Saddam out, then you are a hypocrite for not arguing just as loudly for the ouster of all the others as well.
(Note: This does not apply to all the pro-war people. Master of Ossus, for example, does argue for the eventual elimination of other opressive governments, making him not a hypocrite.)
In your Kantian worldview. It's not so for utilitarians.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Stormbringer wrote:I'm of the opinion that when we can realistically do something about those sort of dictators we should.
I expect to see your protests once America decides to go home and not continue on its crusade of liberation (assuming it doesn't actually continue to liberate more countries.)
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!
Durran Korr wrote:In your Kantian worldview. It's not so for utilitarians.
Utilitarians seek to maximise, the amount of happiness in the world. They would cheerfully liberate Iraq, then continue until every country is liberated. Unfortunatly for the pro-war people, not many people are arguing that we do precicely that.
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!
Durran Korr wrote:In your Kantian worldview. It's not so for utilitarians.
Utilitarians seek to maximise, the amount of happiness in the world. They would cheerfully liberate Iraq, then continue until every country is liberated. Unfortunatly for the pro-war people, not many people are arguing that we do precicely that.
Invading N. Korea and watching Seoul burn in a nuclear fire would not maximize anyone's happiness.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Stormbringer wrote:I'm of the opinion that when we can realistically do something about those sort of dictators we should.
I expect to see your protests once America decides to go home and not continue on its crusade of liberation (assuming it doesn't actually continue to liberate more countries.)
I think, unless we're going to tell the world to deal with it and leave us alone, that we should do just that. If Bush doesn't do his dead level best to fix Iraq then I will be protesting that.
Yogi wrote:Re: Peaceniks (like me) never propose a viable alternative.
How about, it is not our job to step in and intervine each time a dictator mistreats its citizens (and if it was, there are plenty of OTHER places to go as well.)
You say that it is not our job.
I pose the following question to you:
If you see something that is fundamentally wrong on all levels of moraliuty and you have the power to halt it, do you not have the responsibility to use that power to do so?
بيرني كان سيفوز
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Nuclear Navy Warwolf
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in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
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ipsa scientia potestas est
There's something that really shits me about these guys with signs in their front yards, what do they think they accomplish? Is GWB going to drive by and see that and go, "Oh, damn, I was wrong about this war thing, quick call the troops back!"
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
there is no anwer, there is, however, situation dependent action
This latest fight, I beleive, was probably nessary. What I objected to, and still object to, is the manner, in political terms, in which it ws done.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
