Taking Iraqis guns

[Vympel]

Is this really wise?

Riot Chases Troops Out of Iraqi Town
'They were terrifying the women and children,' one protester says after U.S. soldiers search homes for weapons.

By Tyler Marshall, Times Staff Writer


HIT, Iraq — In the third straight day of Iraqi violence against the U.S. military occupation of the country, residents enraged over house-to-house searches in this western town ransacked the police station, stoned U.S. armored military vehicles and set police cars on fire Wednesday.

With a large, uncontrolled mob still roaming the streets as dusk fell, it was impossible to determine exactly what triggered the riot, but in a series of chaotic interviews laced with anti-American rage and threats of vengeance, residents said the problems began when police assisted the U.S. troops in searching local homes for weapons.

As night fell, there was no sign of either the police or U.S. forces in the town, and plumes of pitch-black smoke billowed into the air as the remains of two police cars burned along a main street. There were no immediate reports of casualties. The Pentagon said it was aware of anti-American disturbances in several cities Wednesday, including Hit.

Already this week, ambushes carried out in Hadithah, Baghdad and Fallouja have left four U.S. soldiers dead and 15 others wounded.

Some Hit residents said an American helicopter providing air cover for the operation crashed in the village of Albu Assaf, three miles west of the town, but the Pentagon said it was "skeptical" about the accounts. When asked to be taken to the alleged crash site, locals said Americans had already cleared away the debris.

As in the earlier incidents, the violence in Hit appeared to be driven — at least in part — by an exploding fury at living conditions that have plunged the lives of many Iraqis into chaos, including a widespread lawlessness and a lack of essential services such as drinking water, electricity and medical supplies.

Gasoline, when available, costs 20 times more than it did during Saddam Hussein's rule.

"They said they wanted to liberate Iraq, but this all shows it is just a game," said Saleh Dayeh, a political science teacher interviewed in the nearby town of Mohammedi. "Petrol is the property of the Iraqi people, but now the Americans are stealing it. They are taking our property, our petrol and doing nothing for us."

Although cheap by American standards at about $1 a gallon, until recently Iraqis were paying little more than the equivalent of a nickel.

While rage was clearly the prevailing emotion on the streets, there were also signs of desperation bordering on panic, both in Hit and neighboring communities.

Abdul Alim Khalaf, a secondary school English teacher in Mohammedi, grabbed the shoulder of a reporter as he turned to leave after a brief interview and pleaded: "No, don't go! There are no salaries here. No one has received anything. There is nothing!"

U.S. authorities began paying salaries to the country's 1.3 million civil servants Saturday, but the payments started in Baghdad and aren't expected to reach outlying areas for a few days.

Residents here said U.S. troops had provoked anger Tuesday when they searched houses in an outlying neighborhood and arrived shortly after dawn Wednesday to set up a checkpoint at the entrance to the town. They then began searching homes with the help of local police.

When the searches continued despite what residents called a peaceful protest, a second, angrier, protest formed in the late afternoon that quickly turned violent. Both the U.S. troops and the police immediately withdrew from the town once the riot started, residents said.

"They forced women and children to leave their houses!" shouted Esmael Rabee, a construction worker who made his voice heard above the shouts of those who had crowded around the lone foreign reporter on the scene. "They violated the dignity and honor of our women. We won't accept this violation.

"The people will do more of this if the Americans come in here again," he added, shaking his fist as those around him shouted approval. "They showed no respect for our way of life."

Taxi driver Jumaa Khalif declared: "They were terrifying the women and children."

Hit, a town of about 20,000, is 100 miles west of Baghdad in an area whose inhabitants are mainly conservative Sunni Muslims.

The cooperation of local police with U.S. forces in the searches appeared to further anger residents, who insisted that there had been no change in leadership at all in Hit. The same men who harassed, intimidated and oppressed them under Hussein were at work Wednesday leading U.S. troops to the homes of those suspected of possessing concealed weapons, they said.

In Washington, Pentagon officials acknowledged concern Wednesday that central Iraq has become a trouble spot for U.S. forces.

"We have reports of lots of skirmishes throughout the central region of Iraq," one official said. Referring to members of Hussein's Baath Party, he added, "These are in areas like Hit and Fallouja where there are definitely Baath resistance groups that are really dug in."

Concerned about the violence, the Pentagon has reportedly decided that a large number of troops will remain in the country for a longer period than originally envisioned. Although maintaining their presence may boost security, the delay in the departure of thousands of GIs has caused dismay within the ranks of many Army units that have been deployed in Iraq.

In western parts of Baghdad, U.S. military authorities ordered hundreds of troops into a part of the city where sporadic attacks in recent days by Iraqis armed mainly with small arms and rocket-propelled grenades have left one American dead and five others wounded. The added patrols were an attempt to halt the guerrilla action in the area, military officials said.

Also in Baghdad, U.S. military personnel raided the Palestinian Embassy on Wednesday morning, according to a mid-level embassy official who requested anonymity. The official, who was away from the compound when the troops arrived around 10:30 a.m. but returned as the arrests were underway, said about 18 of the embassy's 23 employees were taken away by U.S. soldiers.

The reason given for the arrests was that the ambassador's top assistant, Najah Abdul Rahman Khateeb, had an unauthorized weapon, the official said.

[Zoink]

The policy protects U.S. soldiers, not Iraqis. Its the wild west; a family can't be garaunteed of police protection. Half these people can't even call for help (no phone). It sounds to me like ordinary Iraqis need their guns for the time being.

[MKSheppard]

Now that is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life - reminds me of
when we did the same thing in the Balkans - and the british didn't.

Guess which group of people who were being "protected" got massacred?

That's right, the group of people whose guns had been taken away by
American peacekeepers...

[NapoleonGH]

yea good job US, not only dont we take up the mantel of civil responsability after totally disabling and dismantelling all forms of police and fire control, but we engage in searches which would be considered unconstitutional if they were american houses. How the hell can we "liberate" people without treating them with certain fundamental rights? The hypocracy is killing me and every day it become more and more apparent that it is an American occupation of a conquered land, rather than an "army of liberation to create iraqi freedom". How long till shrub and his facist cronies announce that since the iraqis cant keep the peace, we will have to annex them?

[Durandal]

Now that is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life - reminds me of when we did the same thing in the Balkans - and the british didn't.

Guess which group of people who were being "protected" got massacred?

That's right, the group of people whose guns had been taken away by American peacekeepers...

I have to agree here. We're rushing in to liberate them and then taking away their right to bear arms? These people are in a time of transition, when very little is certain. If a father wants to keep a gun in the home in order to feel a little more secure about the well-being of himself and his family, we should let him.

I think that it'd be wise to allow the Iraqis to begin forming militias for their towns, trained by American sergeants. We're still foreigners, there, and people will feel a lot safer knowing that Bob from next door is protecting them rather than a random soldier, because everyone knows Bob and knows he's a good guy.

[h0rus]

"With a large, uncontrolled mob still roaming the streets as dusk fell, it was impossible to determine exactly what triggered the riot, but in a series of chaotic interviews laced with anti-American rage and threats of vengeance, residents said the problems began when police assisted the U.S. troops in searching local homes for weapons."

I can't imagine how enraged I'd feel if some fucks were invading my home to do something like that.

[Joe]

Now that is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life - reminds me of when we did the same thing in the Balkans - and the british didn't.

Guess which group of people who were being "protected" got massacred?

That's right, the group of people whose guns had been taken away by American peacekeepers...

I have to agree here. We're rushing in to liberate them and then taking away their right to bear arms? These people are in a time of transition, when very little is certain. If a father wants to keep a gun in the home in order to feel a little more secure about the well-being of himself and his family, we should let him.

I think that it'd be wise to allow the Iraqis to begin forming militias for their towns, trained by American sergeants. We're still foreigners, there, and people will feel a lot safer knowing that Bob from next door is protecting them rather than a random soldier, because everyone knows Bob and knows he's a good guy.

Bah, won't happen, we'd jsut hear lots of bullshit from the foreign press about American cowboys bringing their depraved "gun culture" to unwilling Iraqis.

[Alyrium Denryle]

yea good job US, not only dont we take up the mantel of civil responsability after totally disabling and dismantelling all forms of police and fire control, but we engage in searches which would be considered unconstitutional if they were american houses. How the hell can we "liberate" people without treating them with certain fundamental rights? The hypocracy is killing me and every day it become more and more apparent that it is an American occupation of a conquered land, rather than an "army of liberation to create iraqi freedom". How long till shrub and his facist cronies announce that since the iraqis cant keep the peace, we will have to annex them?

It will not be long. dont worry..big brother loves you.

[Durandal]

Bah, won't happen, we'd jsut hear lots of bullshit from the foreign press about American cowboys bringing their depraved "gun culture" to unwilling Iraqis.

This is true. However, the press could criticize the American cowboys for violating Iraqis' right to protection from unreasonable search and seizure after going there to force the government to respect human rights, and they'd be perfectly justified in doing so.

[RedImperator]

I wonder what State Department cocksmoker thought this one up? Jesus, if they tried this in the States 4 million NRA members would march on Washington and sack the Capitol, but we're running around doing this to the people we're supposed to be liberating.

[Howedar]

yea good job US, not only dont we take up the mantel of civil responsability after totally disabling and dismantelling all forms of police and fire control, but we engage in searches which would be considered unconstitutional if they were american houses. How the hell can we "liberate" people without treating them with certain fundamental rights? The hypocracy is killing me and every day it become more and more apparent that it is an American occupation of a conquered land, rather than an "army of liberation to create iraqi freedom". How long till shrub and his facist cronies announce that since the iraqis cant keep the peace, we will have to annex them?

Congratulations, you're a fucking moron.

[The Albino Raven]

NapoleonGH wrote:
yea good job US, not only dont we take up the mantel of civil responsability after totally disabling and dismantelling all forms of police and fire control, but we engage in searches which would be considered unconstitutional if they were american houses. How the hell can we "liberate" people without treating them with certain fundamental rights? The hypocracy is killing me and every day it become more and more apparent that it is an American occupation of a conquered land, rather than an "army of liberation to create iraqi freedom". How long till shrub and his facist cronies announce that since the iraqis cant keep the peace, we will have to annex them?
Congratulations, you're a fucking moron.

Are you saying that taking away guns from people who really need them to protect themselves is a good idea? Seriously, he has a point here.

[Howedar]

No, Shep had a point. Napoleon has a steaming pile of leftist rhetoric.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

No, it isn't wise.

[Vympel]

Good news! They just backflipped- citizens can keep their AKs.

In a significant retreat in American efforts to seize weapons held by Iraqi citizens, American and British officials said today that Iraqis would be allowed to keep AK-47 assault rifles in their homes and businesses.

While American officials gave no public explanation for amending what had been a much tougher plan to rid postwar Iraq of heavy weapons, military officials have said they recognize the difficulties in disarming citizens at a time when Iraqis feel their security is still at risk.

[Howedar]

But they damn well better not have AKMs

[Vympel]

But they damn well better not have AKMs

Hey, nitpicking Soviet weapon names is *my* job!

Guards, sieze him!

[Howedar]

Neener neener neener!

[Sea Skimmer]

Good news! They just backflipped- citizens can keep their AKs.

In a significant retreat in American efforts to seize weapons held by Iraqi citizens, American and British officials said today that Iraqis would be allowed to keep AK-47 assault rifles in their homes and businesses.

While American officials gave no public explanation for amending what had been a much tougher plan to rid postwar Iraq of heavy weapons, military officials have said they recognize the difficulties in disarming citizens at a time when Iraqis feel their security is still at risk.

Since when are rifles heavy weapons? I wounder what that makes a water pistol or KPV?