Officer Down

[RogueIce]

A Pasco County Sherriff's Lieutenant was killed by a shot to the back while sitting in his patrol car today. He had served thirty one years on the force and was fifteen days from retirement as a Captain. He was a;sp a Vietnam veteran. This shooting was apparently intentional, though for why is currently unknown.

Just thought I would share this. It's sad when someone who has spent their entire life serving others is killed, purposely it seems. Makes me wish that the person(s) responisble try and "resist arrest" when the cops come for them.

[Montcalm]

I`m so enraged about this senseless act i don`t know what to say,my sympathy to his family.

[Alyeska]

I hope to join this fine profession soon. This behiavor sickens me and I feel nothing but sympathy for the family of that fine officer.

[Joe]

A thousand deaths are not enough for this man.

[MKSheppard]

Makes me wish that the person(s) responisble try and "resist arrest" when the cops come for them.

I really don't care because his life is essentially worth more than
mine - aren't there lots of additional tacked on sentences for killing
a cop, rather than an ordinary peon like you or me?

[Sea Skimmer]

I really don't care because his life is essentially worth more than
mine - aren't there lots of additional tacked on sentences for killing
a cop, rather than an ordinary peon like you or me?

I don’t know about murder, but there are generally additional penalties for assault.

[Col. Crackpot]

A cop here got killed in a shootout a few years back. ('94 i think) he, and half a dozen other officers chased a violent felon wanted for attempted murder into an apartment bulding, when they burst in he started firing wildly at all of them. a cop took a bullet to the chest, and died instantly. the remaining 5 officers unloaded on him, because the guy kept firing even after he was hit half a dozen times. two more cops were wounded by this scumbag before he was killed. now every spring there is a 5K road race through the city that raises money for scholarships for inner city kids in his name. tough job, i don't know if i could do it.

[phongn]

Shit, I heard about that.

[Perinquus]

Makes me wish that the person(s) responisble try and "resist arrest" when the cops come for them.

I really don't care because his life is essentially worth more than
mine - aren't there lots of additional tacked on sentences for killing
a cop, rather than an ordinary peon like you or me?

There is a reason that we put a greater penalty on those who assault or kill law enforcement officers. These are the most violent and aggressive offenders out there. Most people, even hardened criminals stop short of trying to kill cops. This may be mostly because they fear being killed on the spot, or because they fear the greater penalty they will have to pay in terms of jail time. Those who kill cops anyway are simultaneously demonstrating that they are not afraid of these things, and that makes them much more dangerous - to both citizens and law enforcement officers alike - and also that they have essentially no respect whatever for the law or for decent people who obey the law.

To summarize, these people are demonstrating, in the most blatant possible way, that they are dangerous, violent, grade A number one shitbags, and as such, they need to be removed from the general population, so they get stiffer penalties.

[RogueIce]

To summarize, these people are demonstrating, in the most blatant possible way, that they are dangerous, violent, grade A number one shitbags, and as such, they need to be removed from the general population, so they get stiffer penalties.

This shitbag is even worse. This officer was shot, in the back, while sitting in his patrol car. Not even doing anything, beyond monitering an area where there had been trouble in the past.

So it seemed like this was targeting the officer. And that makes it the worst in my mind. He deserves death. No questions, just death.

[Howedar]

Now, I respect the police and I think that this is a horrible tragedy. However, I don't see that its vastly more of a tragedy than, say, some other innocent person just being shot in the back.

[Nathan F]

Seeing as how my father is Law Enforcement, every time this happens, it really kind of hits home. It makes me realize how often dad put's his life on the line protecting others...

[The Albino Raven]

Now, I respect the police and I think that this is a horrible tragedy. However, I don't see that its vastly more of a tragedy than, say, some other innocent person just being shot in the back.

Exactly. There were a number of other innocent people that very same day who were killed in America, and I find it unfortunate that since they do not wear a uniform, they aren't to be respected. Yes, this officer died while protecting other citizens, but he also knew it was part of the job. i'm not a cop hater, im just saying.

[Perinquus]

It's not just on behalf of the individual cop who gets killed. A uniformed officer is also a representative of the law. When someone attacks the officer he is also attacking the law. It's rather impersonal and abstract, I grant you, but we do give loyalty and respect to abstract concepts like law and order, country, society, etc. This is why we swear an oath of allegiance to a constitution which embodies our ideals, laws, and principles. When a street thug shoots a cop in the back, it's often not the case that he targeted the individual officer, he just wants to kill a cop, and any cop will do. He's not targeting the man, he's targeting the uniform, and thus, in a larger sense, the law and everything it exists to protect. Consequently, the law reserves a greater penalty for people who do this sort of thing.

[Howedar]

And I totally agree with that. However, thats not the same as saying that this is more of a tragedy than another killing.

Its more serious a legal transgression, but it is no more tragic.

[MKSheppard]

Consequently, the law reserves a greater penalty for people who do this sort of thing.

So some people are more equal than others.

Kind of like how that FBI agent managed to walk away from blowing some
kids face half off with a M-16 at a traffic stop and got off scot free up
near Baltimore a few years ago

[MKSheppard]

I'm reminded of my personal motto for the Prince George's County, MD
police department:

"The Black Man Keeping the Black Man Down...9mm at a time...legally."

[RogueIce]

And I totally agree with that. However, thats not the same as saying that this is more of a tragedy than another killing.

Its more serious a legal transgression, but it is no more tragic.

I think it's because, like was said earlier, they do recognize the risks. They know they could get gunned down at any time, at any reason, with no real warning. And, often times, like Shep has demonstrated, they go unapprecieted by the public at large, and often get stereotyped as oppressers and such. And any time one of them makes a mistake, it gets harped upon and harped upon, and then people go saying that every cop is just like that.

And yet, despite all this, they still go out there, day after day. That's why I think it's more tragic, for better or worse. Or, why it deserves at least some recognition.

[Howedar]

Just to play the devil's advocate, one could argue that by doing this they are willingly and knowingly placing themselves in harm's way, rather like a soldier going to war.

Is it more tragic when a soldier dies in a war, or when some poor dumb innocent civilian dies in the crossfire?

[RogueIce]

Just to play the devil's advocate, one could argue that by doing this they are willingly and knowingly placing themselves in harm's way, rather like a soldier going to war.

Exactly. And I have the utmost respect for that soldier, and I do feel that if they die, then they too deserve recognition.

Is it more tragic when a soldier dies in a war, or when some poor dumb innocent civilian dies in the crossfire?

I don't know whether either is more tragic; somebody died, which means somebody lost a husband, father, sister, etc (far too many to go through them all, but you get the point). As for worth mentioning...

*shrug* I don't know, really. Guess it depends on the circumstances.

[Perinquus]

Consequently, the law reserves a greater penalty for people who do this sort of thing.

So some people are more equal than others.

Thank you Shep for completely missing the point. To repeat: it's not for who the officers are, it's for what they represent, and the fact that that which they represent is what is being attacked.

Kind of like how that FBI agent managed to walk away from blowing some
kids face half off with a M-16 at a traffic stop and got off scot free up
near Baltimore a few years ago

If such a thing occurred as you say, it is an abuse if the shooting was unjustified. I would like some details however, since the Bureau doesn't generally do traffic stops, nor does one bring out long guns at a traffic stop, unless it is a high risk felony stop on a known suspect - which rather changes the complection of things.

[MKSheppard]

If such a thing occurred as you say, it is an abuse if the shooting was unjustified. I would like some details however, since the Bureau doesn't generally do traffic stops, nor does one bring out long guns at a traffic stop, unless it is a high risk felony stop on a known suspect - which rather changes the complection of things.

It was a bank robbery call, except the geniuses at the bureau got the
WRONG FUCKING CAR. The car they pulled over was a completely different
make and model and color than the car that the bank robber was using, and
an overly twitchy FBI agent shot the kid who was driving the car between
the eyes with his M-4 carbine...Oh yeah, to top it all off, the kid was driving
with his girlfriend in the passenger seat

[Perinquus]

Just to play the devil's advocate, one could argue that by doing this they are willingly and knowingly placing themselves in harm's way, rather like a soldier going to war.

I could also take the opposite argument: people like me put on the uniform and go out every day and put ourselves at considerable risk so that the rest of you can live your lives fat safe and happy behind the protection we provide you - usually without thanks, I might add. The heavier penalites are an attempt to place a value on the risks we face, on our working such long hours, and having to live with the highest rate of divorce of any profession in the country, and all the other things we do and give up on your behalf.

And now that I think of it, there is another, more practical justification for imposing heavier penalties against those who assault or kill LEOs: our job entails such risk, and we face the worst and most dangerous kind of people on such a regular basis, that the heavier penalties are an attempt to at least try and deter criminals from assaulting us or trying to kill us, and so, make our jobs at least a little bit less dangerous.

[Perinquus]

If such a thing occurred as you say, it is an abuse if the shooting was unjustified. I would like some details however, since the Bureau doesn't generally do traffic stops, nor does one bring out long guns at a traffic stop, unless it is a high risk felony stop on a known suspect - which rather changes the complection of things.

It was a bank robbery call, except the geniuses at the bureau got the
WRONG FUCKING CAR. The car they pulled over was a completely different
make and model and color than the car that the bank robber was using, and
an overly twitchy FBI agent shot the kid who was driving the car between
the eyes with his M-4 carbine...Oh yeah, to top it all off, the kid was driving
with his girlfriend in the passenger seat

Kind of like another Lon Horiuchi eh? I didn't think he should have gotten away with that either. Horiuchi should have been fired and jailed. Maybe this guy should too. I don't apologize for people who behave with criminal negligence. If they get away with it it's still wrong.

Yet for every such incident, I can find one where an officer was hung out to dry because he made a split second decision under life and death circumstances, and a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks came in and decided he made the wrong one. Abuses happen. It's tragic, but given the imperfectibility of man, it's inevitable. The difference is that most people do not let it unjustly turn them against everyone in the same profession.

[Saurencaerthai]

I really don't care because his life is essentially worth more than
mine - aren't there lots of additional tacked on sentences for killing
a cop, rather than an ordinary peon like you or me?

Who care's whether or not his life is equal to yours? It's a tragedy that an officer who's job is to serve and protect was murdered while doing nothing but routine duties. If you don't want to accept that cops do deserve some respect for getting up every day to go to a job that for all they know, might end their life solely to help others, well then at least look at him as a human. It's unfortunate when a person gets murdered while simply sitting in their car.

My sincerest condolances to his family.