Students grilled by Secret Service about anti-Bush comments

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-13 07:49pm

How often has there been an attempt on your Prime Minister compared to POTUS?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-13 08:50pm

phongn wrote:How often has there been an attempt on your Prime Minister compared to POTUS?

Except for a few pies, and the punching of a PM by a POTUS, none.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-05-13 09:41pm

Ted wrote:I threaten the Canadian authorities, yet I don't get interrorgated by the RCMP, or others.

But if you tried to send a mailbomb or a threatening piece of mail to the PM, the Lt. Governer, or any other high ranking goverment official, you'll quickly find the RCMP on your doorstep. Several people were dumb enough to do that while I was working at Customs and they quickly found themselves in deep shit. Mail a deaththreat to the PM and you'll get a nice visit from the redcoats.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-13 09:47pm

aerius wrote:
Ted wrote:I threaten the Canadian authorities, yet I don't get interrorgated by the RCMP, or others.
But if you tried to send a mailbomb or a threatening piece of mail to the PM, the Lt. Governer, or any other high ranking goverment official, you'll quickly find the RCMP on your doorstep. Several people were dumb enough to do that while I was working at Customs and they quickly found themselves in deep shit. Mail a deaththreat to the PM and you'll get a nice visit from the redcoats.

You know the best security Chretien need is his wife and an Inuit sculpture.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-14 12:58am

Montcalm wrote:You know the best security Chretien need is his wife and an Inuit sculpture.

Now THAT was an hilarious escapade.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-14 01:28am

Our PM once had a water baloon thrown at him.

And one was lost while swimming in a bay. Body never recovered.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-05-14 02:10am

Ted wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Mabey because your over there in CANADA. Or do you believe Canada is just part of Greater Montana? That works for me too.
I threaten the Canadian authorities, yet I don't get interrorgated by the RCMP, or others.

Depending on the venue that you chose for your verbal attacks, it is possible that you were invesigated and found harmless with out you knowing about it.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-15 08:36am

Knife wrote: Depending on the venue that you chose for your verbal attacks, it is possible that you were invesigated and found harmless with out you knowing about it.

That's very true.

I mean, think about it. Right now, Jean Chreitian (i probably didn't spell his name right, as I just call him that-jackass-in-power) is argueably the most disliked Prime Minister to date.

People are constantly complaining about him, and want him out of office. Also, by all reports, since he announced his just prior to the next election, he's been acting like an 'unelected king'. He is not going to be in power much longer, he doesn't have to worry about losing his job, and he can retire with full pay now.

The report I am thinking of is a line from a recent meeting he head with the provincial premiers (governors) where he basically said "Take this offer or get nothing, I have nothing to worry about, so I don't care"

Anyway
I have heard threats and ideas to get rid of him everywhere. Heck, I heard the cook at a restaurant I like to eat lunch in say if she ever say him crossing the street, she'd probably gun the engine and aim for him.
While that's a pretty common idle threat, face it how many of us have said that about someone, she said it with two local cops sitting there eating lunch. The cops chuckled, and went back to eating.

That's a fairly harmless steam-venting, and everyone knows it. What are the odds of the PM coming to this particular city of maybe 150,000 people, and crossing the street in a situation where she could actually run him over with a car? Slim to nil.

At work however, I work for the provincial government, someone did make a smart-ass remark about doing something to the PM, and they got a nice visit from the Ontario Provincial Police and Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They were cleared pretty quickly, seeing as the smart-ass remark was part of a joke. (Something like, if you had 5 minutes to live and could kill anyone in Canada without paying for it in the afterlife, who would it be and why?)

I can understand why it's like that in Canada. I can also understand why the United States is, by comparsison, more paranoid about that sort of thing.

In Canada, the worse that has ever happened to our PM is water ballooning and pies in the face. Sure, someone broke into his home a while back, but that was the RCMP's fault (I don't remember the details). I believe they have since improved security at the PM's residence.

The embarrassing incidents where all pretty harmless, and were usually be fustrated people trying to get there point on TV.

However, in the States, there have been at least two successful assasinations of a President (Lincoln, JFK) and several attempts on other presidents. I am only aware of a few on Ronald Regan, but there are probably others I don't know about.

Givin that, and the current state of world affairs as they related to the US (I.e 9-11) and the history of violence that children in the states have been showing the last 10 years (do I even need to cite an example?) I do not blame the SS or the teacher for being a little paranoid with kids in this case.

After all, it IS illegal in the states to make death threats of any kind against the President. Also, it is not illegal in California to police officals to chew out kids without there parents in the room. Heck, if it's just a chew-out, then getting the parents is probably a waste of time.

Personally, I'm surprised that the school board didn't suspend the kids, or expell them for rampant stupidity and criminal conduct.

People might be surprised at someone saying that. Some are screaming 'due process, nazi state, over-baring, paranoia, Big Brother is watching' etc etc etc.

Get a braincell that works.

I HAVE been chewed out by the cops with my parents not present, and I wasn't even in high school yet, and I still say this.

When I was in Grade 7, I was in a behaviour class for socially-misaligned children (translation; I problems. I took out my fustrations by beating up people, I was bored in school because the work was way below me. Imagine crossing Bart Simpson, Nelson, and give the cross Martin's brain with some of Milhouse's personality)

Anyway, one day, 3 of my classmates and I (2 older boys, and 1 girl) walked over to the nearby shopping centre. The girl and the other boys were goofing around alot, the guys being 15 and the girl 14. (In Ontario, you stay in a grade until you pass it, and they don't kick you out until you are 16. I've heard of 15 year olds in Grade 3 still) you can imagine what kind of goofing around they were doing.

Two teachers from the school saw us all, including some of my goofing around with the girl (nothing serious, we both liked pro-wrestling so we kept putting each other in hammer locks and stuff) and to them it all looked pretty bad.

During one of the goofings in the parking lot on the way back to school, I knocked the girl over by accident. She blew smoke in my face, I closed my eyes so it wouldn't bug me, I tripped and landed on her. This upset me, so I ran off. I also had a weak stomach and smoke really (and still does) bug me so I went to toss my cookies.

Anyway, while the other guys were helping the girl up, she started wrestling with them a little. The teachers saw all this, turns out they started following us, and understandably viewed it all the wrong way.

From there point of view, 3 guys from the nut-job class took a girl off the school grounds at lunch, and started beating her up and molesting her.

Okay, fine. I can see how it would look bad.

When we all got back to school, there were 2 cop car's waiting there. The boys and I were escorted into the nurses room, and the young lady was talked to by the cops. She told them what had happened after being told if the teachers story was true, she would be in a new school tomorrow, and the boys and I would be in juvi-hall by dinner. Considering she hated the school and class, and then basically said "I was messing around with my boyfriend and two of his friends, tell those teachers to leave me alone", all we got was a chewing out afterwards for rough-housing with the girl when our stories all lined up nicely. The only thing that didn't line up was I thought the smoke was deliberate, and the girl said she didn't remember blowing it, and the guys said it looked like an accident.

My parents were not there, and they were upset they hadn't been called until after the chewing out.
It was never in the newspaper, because quite frankly, beyond my parents being upset they were not called quicker, no one gave a damn.

Anyway, sometimes the 'no parent chew out' is a good idea. Hell, I prefer it to lawyers being involved.

Why?

Simple.

You can't get chewed out with your parents or lawyer in the room.

Face it, just having a cop look at you funny and say "don't do it again" doesn't work. Having one look at you and say "you are so screwed" and discribing what's going to happen to you, IS

Let me put it to you this way.

Bullies
What's the standard punishement for bully's in school right now
usually its a "don't do it again" and a detention. Then the bully goes and beats up the kid again, or whatever, for getting him in trouble.

Why? Because the bully knows the worse they are going to do is yell at him, and he doesn't care.

However, if you go back say, 20 - 30 years when harsher discipline was in schools, what was the punishement?

You got your ass paddled, and depending, got a visit from some cops that screamed at you until you curled up in a little ball and cried.

Most kids didn't do it again.

Now, I've been spanked 3 times in my life, twice by my parents, once by a non-parent. The two times in my life by my parents, I deserved the one, and the other I am gratiful for and don't remember

First, I nearly ran out onto the street at the age of 3. I was chasing my ball, it went out, and I went after it. My dad grabbed me up, and gave me a swat on the but, and told me about not going past the sidewalk without mom and dad. He also explained that if I did, a car could hit me, and it would hurt lots more then the bum swat.
It was effective. I'm told that the next day, I took my 1 year old sister out and told her the rule, and that it was like falling down hard on your butt to make you cry

The second time, I got mad and pushes over the christmas tree while my mother and sister were decorating it.

(The non-parent time, the guy was told if he came withing 100 feet of me or my sister, my parents would have him charged, if my father left anything left too charge.)

However, in each case, I didn't do what i was spanked for again. Because I knew, I would be punished for it, and I wouldn't like it.

Anyway, back onto topic.

Now-a-days, kids are pretty smart. Sure, we all get pretty stupid from hormone's when we hit high school, but still.

You'd think two 16 year olds would know better then mouthing off about killing the president, especially after terrorist attacks and in the middle of a war.

They didn't, and in my opinion, they got off pretty lucky.

Did they break the law?
Ultimately, that would be up to a judge, however, I'd say Yes

Should the boy's parents have been called?
Legally: No.
Emotionally: Yes. The should have been called, told what they had done, and that the Secret Service was there to ball them out. The Service could do it with the principal in the room, or they can wait until the parents arrive. Explain the options are a chewing out, or being arrested and possibly tossed in jail for 5 years. Which is true

Did the Secret Service jump the gun? All things considered: No

Should the teacher get in trouble?
No.
The teacher did her job as a public servant and as a citizen.
If you doupt that, compare the discomfort of two smart ass'es to the possiblie side-effects of a few people getting shot.

Were some of the papers reporting irresponsible/political:
Yes

Should it have even made the paper?
No. Unless the boys involved, school board itself or the sercet service called them about it, it shouldn't be in the paper

Should the 'leaking' 3rd hand account teachers get in trouble?
Yes. Why? They were no involved. Schools are having enough problems without this getting into the paper. Take away there parking spaces for two weeks.

Should the 'wise ass' students get into more trouble?
Depends on there record. If its clean at school, no. If they have caused problems at school before, beyond pissy stuff like non-criminal smart ass remarks and such, then a 2 days on suspension cleaning toilets might not be a bad idea.

Should they be made go back to the class with the teacher that reported them?
Absolutely.

Other thoughts

Looking at the laws, can you honestly say that anything wrong was done by the Secret Service?
The kids made smart ass remarks, and they got yelled at for it. That's ALL. Sure the yelling might have been harsh, but it beats 5 years in jail being used as 'Big Bubbas' love monkey.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-05-15 10:46pm

The fact that a lawyer was not present doesn't mean that they were denied legal counsel. You have a right to a lawyer if you want one; you don't HAVE TO use that right.

As a general rule, calling a lawyer means they're going to throw the book at you, simply because then everything's formal and on the record. For minor offenses or cases where you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, you're much better off just talking to the police/feds.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-18 09:59pm

Hehe...I was in a behavioral class, too. But I still wasn't stupid enough to say I wanted to off the President.

However, I fully advocate embarrasing the President in any way possible (prefferably by de-pantsing him and saying his dick looks like Ashcroft.)*

*You heard it here first, folks! I'm a terrorist!

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-20 10:08am

Heheh

There is a difference between embarrassing the president and trying to kill him

Otherwise, Paula Jones and company would all be in jail over the Bill Clinton sex scandals.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-05-27 03:03am

What a bunch of arrogant loud-mouth little bastards.

Heh. Just like I like 'em to be.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-27 03:17am

h0rus wrote:What a bunch of arrogant loud-mouth little bastards.

Heh. Just like I like 'em to be.

Do not bump up dead threads, especially when spam is all you intend to add.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2003-06-03 08:31pm

I'm not sure... Okay the Secret Service was doing it's Job a report got sent to them that someone had threatened the President's life I can deal with that...

However...
1.) The teacher was Stupid it's as simple as that, the Teacher was Stupid, A.) Did the Children have the Abilty to make said Threat a Reality in all likelyhood... That is could they get into a Position where they can get a Shot off at the President before the Secret Service got to them. I'm going with NO WAY. They where not making a real threat they where stating an opinion, that is that, The President is so bad he needs to be shot. I'll state another the right here, 'Margerat Thatcher Deserves to be Shot' Dosn't mean I actually want her Shot physixcally or that I intend to it IN REAL LIFE. No as a Matter of opinion through it's a strong argument that a person is a ******.#
2.) If rights where denied then this is a problem, I'm sure Charges are not brought against silly Threats to the President such as a Jokey way of expressing your opinion. So Legal advice would have been helpful.
3.) Any Interview that has a Kid in tears, and has them admit it to the Press WENT WAY OVER THE top.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-03 09:55pm

Skelron! Didn't you just read what Sea Skimmer wrote above your post?

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2003-06-03 09:57pm

, Oh the don't Bumb dead threads, lets see it was on Page one I believe, Maybe he shouldn't have bumped it... I don't think I added Spam anyway. If I did sorry... Now this post was probs spam.... LAHLAHLAH