Russian POW camps 1952?!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-06-09 11:37pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Typhonis 1 wrote:I heard thats where several MIAs from Vietnam may have wound up in the USSR
Nope, thats just Hollywood and conspiracy theorists talking. All US soldiers from Vietnam have been accounted for.
Really now? Then why are all those families out there still trying to find out the fates of their loved ones?

Because these are people who refuse to let go of hope. The US had a very interesting system of determining who is MIA, POW, and KIA. If there is no trace of the body, they are MIA. Even if its plain as day the body was completely vaporized the offical standing will be MIA. Here is another example (this one is for durring the war, not after). A two seater plane is shot down and only one chute comes out. You know one is MIA and the other is dead. You list them both as MIA.

The US military has studied their list of questionable MIAs and they were able to properly research each and every incident and have accounted for every single serviceman who served in Vietnam.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-09 11:39pm

Vympel wrote:
"Guards, sieze him!"

That's Tu-4 BULL, Nathan

Given time I'm sure the Soviets could have gotten this

from this

Who here knew that Field Marhsall von Paulus taught at an East German military academy?

me

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-10 02:58am

The highest scoring figher ace in history, Erich Hartmann (352 confirmed kills) was on of those long-held prisoners. He surrendered to an American unit at the end of the war, and was turned over to the Russians - not our finest hour. He spent 10 1/2 years in Russian prison camps. His wife spent the whole time waiting for him to return as well, despite having received only a few letters from him. The Russians intercepted most of them. He only got 50 of hers, and she wrote over 400.

Hartmann's biography gives a pretty good account of life in the camps.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-10 03:16am

The Tu-4 really did have the word "Boeing" on the pedals and control yokes. This is because the Russian copy was literally a copy - bolt for bolt. Parts were replicated often by making a mold of the original and using it to cast parts for production of the Russian version.

Here's a neat photo of the Russian B-29 (Tu-4, NATO code name "Bull")

This particular aircraft is displayed at the Yuri Gagarin Air Force Academy outside Moscow. Note the Red star on the tail:

Here' an article on it:

http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStor ... contss.htm

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-10 03:18am

I don't see why Hartmann deserved to go over to the Americans- he fought entirely on the Eastern Front, after all. It would've been nice for him, but I can see why he was handed over- along with those in Totenkopf, for example.

The Tu-2 was a great bomber, btw.

Did the Tu-4 have the same performance as the B-29, or did it suck majorly?

Tu-20 is my plane (why the Tu-95 name stuck I have no idea).

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-06-10 03:32am

I think it had poorer performance than the B-29 however thing was is was obsolete when it came out ...1947 or 48 I think thats when the first American jet powered bombers started coming out or was it fighters???

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-10 03:39am

Vympel wrote:I don't see why Hartmann deserved to go over to the Americans- he fought entirely on the Eastern Front, after all. It would've been nice for him, but I can see why he was handed over- along with those in Totenkopf, for example.

Hartmann did fight some on the Western front toward the end of the war. Ten of his kills were against American planes. so there would have been some justification for keeping him, and knowing what the Russians were doing to their German POWs... Well, Hartmann didn't deserve that. He fought for a terrible regime, but there is no evidence that he was ideologically or politically a Nazi, and there is also no evidence that he ever committed any war crimes. He was just a soldier; he certainly didn't deserve to spend 10 1/2 years in a gulag, unlike some of the SS men from the Totenkopf division, who were war criminals.

Vympel wrote:Did the Tu-4 have the same performance as the B-29, or did it suck majorly?

The Russians had a great deal of difficulty reverse engineering the B-29, since a number of the technologies involved in producing its components were areas they were well behind in. For example, they had problems producing the curved perspex window panels, so their pilots complained of distorted views. The remote control gun turrets gave the Russian engineers a lot of headaches. The Shvetsov copy of the Wright R-3350 Cyclone was plagued with overheating and reliability problems, etc. Basically, I gather the Tu-4 worked, and gave the Russians the long range bomber they wanted in a fraction of the time it would have taken them to develop it on their own, but the less advaced Russian technology and quality control resulted in a lower quality product, with inferior performance to the American original.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-10 08:45am

Vympel wrote:I don't see why Hartmann deserved to go over to the Americans- he fought entirely on the Eastern Front, after all. It would've been nice for him, but I can see why he was handed over- along with those in Totenkopf, for example.

The basis for the handovers was generally based on where a person was when the war ended in the case of military personal, or where they had been living in the case of refugees. He and a lot of other pilots got handed back because they flew west after Germany surrendered.

Did the Tu-4 have the same performance as the B-29, or did it suck majorly?

Its performance was inferior to that of the B-29 model copied, meanwhile the US was building the B-50, and Russian Tu-4's lasted until past the B-52s entry into service.

Tu-20 is my plane (why the Tu-95 name stuck I have no idea).

95 is bigger