How did Arnold do in the Recall Debate?

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-09-25 01:14am

How well did Arnold do, in your opinion, in the recall debate on Wednesday?

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-25 01:22am

Arnold did not fall on his face. Overall his performance was okay, which for his campaign might be good. He did not get into specifics like McClintock or Cameo did, which I found disappointing.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2003-09-25 01:55am

It was entertaining as hell. California ought to have a recall every year. It was just about the best thing on TV Wednesday night.

It could be a part of the prime time line up before the fall season really kicks off. I'm not sure what label would be appropriate for everyone, but Cruz definitely qualifies as Dopey...

The only person or other credible candidate that was missing was Batman

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-25 02:52am

Are you guys from California? If not, did the debate make national tv?

I thought Huffington threw away any chance she had by constantly attacking Arnold and Bush. I dont think Arnold picked up any new votes, but he didnt lose any either.

While I laughed at Arnold's "I have a part for you in Terminator 4" comment it was probably not the wisest thing to do in a state where the womens vote is important.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-09-25 04:04am

Huffington signed on for the debate as pretty much comic relief. She's in this for better book deals and speaking fees.

As for Arnold, he did good, which is better than expected since expectations for him were so low. McClintock also did good, which means badness for the Republicans since he probably won't step down to back Schwartzenegger. Neither of them can win if both run.

Bustamante didn't impress or surprise anyone, he's just the UN-Davis democrat.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-25 08:26am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Are you guys from California? If not, did the debate make national tv?

Only on four networks, and several international stations

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-25 11:12am

I saw part of it. From the looks of it, McClintock is going to get a boost with the voters, since one of his problems is lack of exposure compared to the other candidates (Schwartzeneggar spends more on TV commercials in a week on his campaign than McClintock has in his whole war chest, and besides, he's an A-list celeb, which makes him a huge media magnet).

After watching what I did of that debate, I'm now 99% sure this recall business is over. Neither Schwartzeneggar or McClintock will back down for the other and that means if the recall election happens, it's going to backfire for the Republicans. After all, the Republicans would have a hard enough time beating the Democrats in California with only one major candidate. Two of them running on basically the same ticket means that neither of them are going to be able to win. Looks like Sacramento will continue to belong to the Democrats.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-09-25 12:35pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:How well did Arnold do, in your opinion, in the recall debate on Wednesday?

I really, really like Arnold.

Yet, I thought he only did okay. Any time he was asked for specifics, he essentially tossed out red herrings about "cleaning up the state of California." Everyone else spoke more directly to the topic at hand--save of course when Huffington would back-track and take shots at Arnold apropos nothing.

I think Arnie also appeared rather nervous at a few points. I didn't watch all of it, but I heard him say "and all dose tings"--a favorite phrase dating back to the 70's--at least 10 times. That wouldn't be quite so distracting if he preceded or followed that up with something hard, which he rarely did.

I still think he can win, but given McClintock's performance/apparent resolve, I'm less sure of that than ever.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-09-25 01:22pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:How well did Arnold do, in your opinion, in the recall debate on Wednesday?

Doesn't matter because Arnold's already won. The Alien has offically endorsed him, and The Alien has yet to be disapointed. It was a Weekly World News exclusive. I don't know about the rest of you, but that solves it for me.

WWN is a tabloid that reports on aliens, crop circles, Nostradamas, Nostradumbass, ect.

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2003-09-25 01:42pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Huffington signed on for the debate as pretty much comic relief. She's in this for better book deals and speaking fees.

As for Arnold, he did good, which is better than expected since expectations for him were so low. McClintock also did good, which means badness for the Republicans since he probably won't step down to back Schwartzenegger. Neither of them can win if both run.

Bustamante didn't impress or surprise anyone, he's just the UN-Davis democrat.

I thought that the California election wasn't plurality. As I understand the system they're uding, if everybody voted, it would only hurt their chances a little bit that there are two candidates for the Republicans, and it ought to actually increase turnout quite a bit. People who put McClintock as first choice will probably have Arnold as second, and vice versa.

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-09-25 02:11pm

Damn! Finally something I wanted to watch on TV and I was stuck working the 3-11 shift!

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-25 02:16pm

CelesKnight wrote:Doesn't matter because Arnold's already won. The Alien has offically endorsed him, and The Alien has yet to be disapointed. It was a Weekly World News exclusive. I don't know about the rest of you, but that solves it for me.

WWN is a tabloid that reports on aliens, crop circles, Nostradamas, Nostradumbass, ect.

Hah! You saw that picture to? I was tempted to by the rag just to scan the picture of their goofy looking grey shaking hands with Arnold and giving the thumbs up, but my scanner isn't working right now. Let me see if I can find a picture of it. It's excellent.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-25 02:23pm

Here we go.

It's official. The Alien indeed backs Arnold Schwartzeneggar. This race is now a done deal.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-09-25 03:06pm

Symmetry wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Huffington signed on for the debate as pretty much comic relief. She's in this for better book deals and speaking fees.

As for Arnold, he did good, which is better than expected since expectations for him were so low. McClintock also did good, which means badness for the Republicans since he probably won't step down to back Schwartzenegger. Neither of them can win if both run.

Bustamante didn't impress or surprise anyone, he's just the UN-Davis democrat.
I thought that the California election wasn't plurality. As I understand the system they're uding, if everybody voted, it would only hurt their chances a little bit that there are two candidates for the Republicans, and it ought to actually increase turnout quite a bit. People who put McClintock as first choice will probably have Arnold as second, and vice versa.

California IS using a plurality. If Davis goes, most votes wins. Bustamante is at about 28%, with Schwartzenegger and McClintock both just behind him (inside the +-). If there was only ONE leading Republican, he'd bury Bustamante.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-09-25 03:39pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Huffington signed on for the debate as pretty much comic relief. She's in this for better book deals and speaking fees.

As for Arnold, he did good, which is better than expected since expectations for him were so low. McClintock also did good, which means badness for the Republicans since he probably won't step down to back Schwartzenegger. Neither of them can win if both run.

Bustamante didn't impress or surprise anyone, he's just the UN-Davis democrat.
I thought that the California election wasn't plurality. As I understand the system they're uding, if everybody voted, it would only hurt their chances a little bit that there are two candidates for the Republicans, and it ought to actually increase turnout quite a bit. People who put McClintock as first choice will probably have Arnold as second, and vice versa.
California IS using a plurality. If Davis goes, most votes wins. Bustamante is at about 28%, with Schwartzenegger and McClintock both just behind him (inside the +-). If there was only ONE leading Republican, he'd bury Bustamante.

I wonder if the national Republicans want to lose this race. I agree with you, if there was only one major Rep. canditate, it would be nearly a done deal. So why hasn't one of them gotten The Call? (A request from the RNC or other influential Reb. entity to leave the race.) Of course, there are other plausible answers than wanting to lose, but it's something to think about.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-09-25 03:42pm

CelesKnight wrote:

I wonder if the national Republicans want to lose this race. I agree with you, if there was only one major Rep. canditate, it would be nearly a done deal. So why hasn't one of them gotten The Call? (A request from the RNC or other influential Reb. entity to leave the race.) Of course, there are other plausible answers than wanting to lose, but it's something to think about.

The call will most likely come after the first poll following the debate

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-25 03:46pm

Well, going by what I've seen on FOXNews and CNN, it seems that McClintock is the one that is being strongly encouraged to get out. Rep. Issa has already been poking him about it, along with quite a few others and alot of them are piling behind Schwartzeneggar even though they are more ideologically like McClintock, such as Bill Simon.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-09-25 04:06pm

CelesKnight wrote:I wonder if the national Republicans want to lose this race. I agree with you, if there was only one major Rep. canditate, it would be nearly a done deal. So why hasn't one of them gotten The Call? (A request from the RNC or other influential Reb. entity to leave the race.) Of course, there are other plausible answers than wanting to lose, but it's something to think about.

I'd say the national leadership would rather lose than have Arnold be governor. He is liberal on many issues, and they'd have a hard time controlling him. They probably cringe at the thought of an -R next to the name of a man calling for gay marriage. They'd rather let Davis keep his position, so they can build strength from their attacks on him.

As to the debate, I didn't watch most of it as I am not from California. But from what I did catch during the Junkyard Wars commercial breaks, Arnold did not impress me. I still like him, but for what I saw he had no specific plans to combat the state's problems. The same goes with the other candidates.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-25 06:02pm

Remember that in the U.S. parties hardly have the same control over their members as in Europe. The issue of Arnold, also, is contentious--he might be more liberal than the Republican leadership would like but even a liberal Republican might be able to hand California to President Bush in '04. McClintock is likely the potential spoiler here; he's running a grassroots efforts among the conservatives in california who see him as their last-gasp effort to bring back a dead dream of what the state was like once.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-09-25 06:41pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Well, going by what I've seen on FOXNews and CNN, it seems that McClintock is the one that is being strongly encouraged to get out. Rep. Issa has already been poking him about it, along with quite a few others and alot of them are piling behind Schwartzeneggar even though they are more ideologically like McClintock, such as Bill Simon.

My guess is that the Rep.'s want McClintock to win, and would give Arnold the call if they could. However,, Arnold wouldn't care if he got the call, and it would just alienate him from the rest of the Rep.'s. That's just my own guess, of course.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-25 07:54pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Remember that in the U.S. parties hardly have the same control over their members as in Europe. The issue of Arnold, also, is contentious--he might be more liberal than the Republican leadership would like but even a liberal Republican might be able to hand California to President Bush in '04. McClintock is likely the potential spoiler here; he's running a grassroots efforts among the conservatives in california who see him as their last-gasp effort to bring back a dead dream of what the state was like once.

California will not vote for Bush, no matter who wins the recall. Bush is very unpopular here for some reasons that are valid and some that are not.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-25 08:41pm

CelesKnight wrote:My guess is that the Rep.'s want McClintock to win, and would give Arnold the call if they could. However,, Arnold wouldn't care if he got the call, and it would just alienate him from the rest of the Rep.'s. That's just my own guess, of course.

Only conservative Republicans want McClintock to win, but many of them see the writing on the wall. McClintock can't win in California, so they they trying to throw their support behind Schwartzeneggar because they think he can win. They don't care as long as it's a Republican who gets the office. The thing is that neither will back down if they get the Call, which means that both are going to lose.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-25 11:59pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:The thing is that neither will back down if they get the Call, which means that both are going to lose.

Possibly. Margin of error combined with continual suggestions by many McClintock supporters that they might vote for Arnold if they think that's what it would take for a Republican to win, gives the hint that McClintock's poll support may not reflect his actual support on election day, and Arnold could squeak by Bustamante. This one is still very much up for grabs.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-09-26 04:19am

I have a feeling McClintock is going to take a VERY good job offer from Schwartzenegger on Oct. 1 and they're going to bury Davis.

Incidentally, will Bustamante still be Lt. Governor? I don't recall if California has rules against splitting the ticket, but I anticipate much animosity if he and a republican are the ones in charge.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-26 09:42am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Possibly. Margin of error combined with continual suggestions by many McClintock supporters that they might vote for Arnold if they think that's what it would take for a Republican to win, gives the hint that McClintock's poll support may not reflect his actual support on election day, and Arnold could squeak by Bustamante. This one is still very much up for grabs.

I don't think so. Many conservatives in California who are actually conservative don't like Arnold at all; he's pro-choice, pro-gun control, et cetera, basically a RINO. Plus, Schwartzeneggar and McClintocks tickets are very similar. Similar enough, in fact, that Rep. Issa, the guy who started all this mess, is urged Californian republicans to vote no on the recall, if McClintock and Schwartzeneggar are both still in the race. In fact, he did it two days in a row. The only way this is up for grabs is whether the recall will be voted out or if McClintock and Schwartzeneggar will spoil each other and this becomes a disaster for the Republicans.

I think wishful thinking tempered your above post, Marina. Even conservative commentators and folk of that nature want McClintock out of the race, because they know full well that he does command enough of the votes that Arnold cannot win. Why do you think that Rep. Issa and Bill Simon have been leaning on McClintock to get out for a long time? The thermometer just popped out of this one.

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How did Arnold do in the Recall Debate?

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