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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Editorial in the Washington Post

Remember Chechnya

Friday, September 26, 2003; Page A26

RUSSIAN PRESIDENT Vladimir Putin was a strong opponent of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and now he says he is skeptical of U.S. plans for reconstruction. Any political transition, he insists, must be endorsed by the United Nations and Arab states around Iraq.

So we can only imagine what Mr. Putin's reaction would be if, during their scheduled meeting at Camp David this week, President Bush were to confide that his official plan to return Iraq to representative government was a mere facade. Mr. Bush might say that Iraq's constitution actually would be written in Washington so as to permanently require the presence of U.S. troops and political control and that the United States would select a presidential candidate who would be allowed to install his campaign manager as supervisor of all Iraqi media. If any serious challengers dared to take on Washington's favorite in a U.S.-run election, the White House would simply force them out of the race.

Mr. Bush surely could not sell such a scheme to Mr. Putin or anyone else, yet the Russian president now demands that his "friend George," together with the rest of the world, swallow that solution for the predominantly Muslim republic of Chechnya. Mr. Putin likes to compare the four-year-old Russian war against Chechens seeking independence with the U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan; in a meeting with American journalists last weekend, he questioned whether U.S. forces were violating human rights on the streets of Baghdad. In fact the comparison is obscene. In Chechnya Russian troops have wiped out a democratically elected government, killed tens of thousands of civilians, forced others out of refugee camps and back into the war zone, reduced the capital and every major town to rubble, indiscriminately rounded up the entire male populations of dozens of villages for torture or summary execution and so shattered the country's civil society that previously marginal Islamic extremists now are a major force.

Having launched the war against Chechnya four years ago in an effort to bolster his own presidential ambitions, Mr. Putin has found himself trapped. Though thousands of Russian soldiers have been killed and Mr. Putin has repeatedly declared the war over, the bloodshed relentlessly goes on. In theory the presidential elections Moscow scheduled for next month offered a way out: If a credible Chechen leader had been chosen to replace the deeply unpopular Kremlin appointee, Akhmad Kadyrov, meaningful negotiations on the republic's future might have been possible. Instead Mr. Putin chose the Stalinist route of eliminating Mr. Kadyrov's main opponents -- "a matter of tactics in the pre-election campaign," he told the U.S. correspondents.

Mr. Putin was infuriated that a State Department official, Steven Pifer, reported to a congressional commission last week that the rigged election lacked credibility and could set back rather than advance prospects for a political settlement. Mr. Pifer's admirably frank statement added that Mr. Putin's policy in Chechnya had "a deleterious effect on the overall U.S.-Russia relationship" and "will be among the most troubling" of issues at the upcoming summit. Mr. Putin warned the journalists that he would not accept "the mentor tone" from Mr. Bush. Clearly the Russian leader hopes that Mr. Bush, in his eagerness to win Moscow's cooperation on Iraq and other issues, will avoid mention of Chechnya. But he should not. There is a great difference between trying to replace a brutal dictatorship with a sovereign democracy and suppressing a nation's aspiration for self-rule through force and fraud. Mr. Bush should not fail to point it out.

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Joe
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Post by Joe »

Sort of a false analogy. Chechnya was within Russia's border, Iraq was not within ours.
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Vympel
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Post by Vympel »

In making a larger point as to the obvious clusterfuck that Chechnya is, the author overplays his hand significantly:

- implied false analogy between Iraq and Afghanistan, sovereign nations, and the Russian republic (not Muslim) of Chechnya

- hysterics about Russian atrocities (which have occured, but the claims of rounding up the entire male populations of dozens of villages for torture/summary execution is absurd and not backed up by any evidence despite the presence of human rights groups and oversight by international organizations)

- claiming that muslim extremists were 'marginal'- these were the same who invaded Dagestan unprovoked in 1999 and were responsible for the destruction of apartment blocks in Moscow- two catalysts for the re-entry into Chechnya. For the three years since 1996, Chechnya was a black hole of kidnapping, drugs, extortion, etc, and in 94 when the whole thing started it had already started to go down the crapper. Wahhabism had already started spreading into the Caucasus in the 1980s.

- The 'democratically' elected thing was especially amusing- Chechnya declared full independence in 1993, which resulted in civil war within the republic. In that period, Chechnya became an outpost for crime, drug and gun smuggling. It was in this environment that Russia tried to overthrow the Dudayev government.

- Chechnya violated the terms of the peace accords (that saw the election of a new president) in 1996 (both by the Dagestan example and becoming a festering sore of drugs/crime/kidnapping etc)

The entire mess should've been solved without any violence whatsoever, and it's a horrible mess, but to portray it in the way the post just did is just bullshit.
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Post by fgalkin2 »

While there is evidence proving that the FSB was behind the apartment building explosions, and while I make no secret of my fellings towards Dobbie, I must say that this article is pure nonsense for the reasons listed above (except the apartment building bit)

Have a very nice day.
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Vympel
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Post by Vympel »

fgalkin2 wrote:While there is evidence proving that the FSB was behind the apartment building explosions, and while I make no secret of my fellings towards Dobbie, I must say that this article is pure nonsense for the reasons listed above (except the apartment building bit)

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
That's what Boris Berezovsky claimed, anyway (a known embezzler and typical oligarch, and in the midst of legal proceedings because TV6 was about to be liquidated)- but what evidence?
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fgalkin2
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Post by fgalkin2 »

Vympel wrote:
fgalkin2 wrote:While there is evidence proving that the FSB was behind the apartment building explosions, and while I make no secret of my fellings towards Dobbie, I must say that this article is pure nonsense for the reasons listed above (except the apartment building bit)

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
That's what Boris Berezovsky claimed, anyway (a known embezzler and typical oligarch, and in the midst of legal proceedings because TV6 was about to be liquidated)- but what evidence?
So did Gousinsky. :wink:

But, IIRC, they caugt someone who turned out to be an FSB agent placing explosives in an apartment building in one of those small cities. The government claimed that is was a test of counterterrorism measures.

But, since this a long time ago, I might be wrong.

Have a very nice day.
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fgalkin2
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Post by fgalkin2 »

fgalkin2 wrote:
Vympel wrote:
fgalkin2 wrote:While there is evidence proving that the FSB was behind the apartment building explosions, and while I make no secret of my fellings towards Dobbie, I must say that this article is pure nonsense for the reasons listed above (except the apartment building bit)

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
That's what Boris Berezovsky claimed, anyway (a known embezzler and typical oligarch, and in the midst of legal proceedings because TV6 was about to be liquidated)- but what evidence?
So did Gousinsky. :wink:

But, IIRC, they caugt someone who turned out to be an FSB agent placing explosives in an apartment building in one of those small cities. The government claimed that is was a test of counterterrorism measures.

But, since this a long time ago, I might be wrong.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
My memory was correct
In particular, the authors examine the puzzling case of a near-explosion in the town of Ryazan, where apartment-block tenants found bags filled with what appeared to be hexogen, a substance used in detonating devices that had been found at previous blast sites.

The tenants were evacuated and officials reported that an explosive mechanism found with the bags of hexogen had been neutralized. But two days later, the FSB announced that the incident had, in fact, been a training exercise meant to gauge the efficiency of Ryazan officials in reacting to an emergency. The bags, they said, contained not hexogen but sugar. Residents, however, said the sacks were filled with yellow crystals, not sugar. FSB Director Nikolai Patrushev confiscated the evidence and declared the local investigation into the matter closed.
Linky

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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