SUVs take hit in pol's pitch

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PROMETHEUS
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Post by PROMETHEUS »

MKSheppard wrote:Seriously, I consider public transportation buses a more serious danger to
the environment than gasoline powered SUVs - they spew large amounts of
crap into the air from their exhaust pipes each time they start up from a dead
stop, which they do a LOT, and of couse, each time they stop, they literally
tie off an entire lane. Frustrating as fuck, especially when they break down.
Most of the buses here in California are being converted to natural gas. An improvement, to say the least.

What really pisses me off is that it's been demonstrated by MIT that it's feasable to make a hybrid semi, that is, a semi powered by electric motors, batteries, and driven by a simple gasoline or diesel V-6. Less emissions, more efficient... what's stopping them?
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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Darth Wong wrote: Wrong. Any car which is going to use public roads must conform to a huge raft of rules.
Which those multi-ton SUVs do. :twisted:
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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Hamel wrote: So, wanting drivers to use reason makes people eco freaks?
I can see around even a Suburban because they have such things
as "windows" in the back. Now, try that with a Public transportation bus.

One of the banes of my commuting style are those god damned things.
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The Yosemite Bear
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Fuck all I want is for them to be completly classified as Trucks, class B licences, etc. That and RV's fuck I am so tired of both of those being driven by folks who DON"T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE!.

fuck the emmissions and the rest, I want someone to actually know how to drive one of those monsters before they buy/drive one. And I live in a place where a 4wd vehicle is a nessesity (However, I own only a front wheel drive compact).
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Kernel wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:Why is everyone ignoring the original post's exclusive focus on so-called "monster SUVs", and acting as though people plan to ban everything that looks vaguely SUV-ish?
Because SUV's like the Suburban and Excursion and based off of truck platforms and are roughly the same size (although heavier) then an extended bed, full size pickup with a camper shell. If you ban the Suburban and Excursion, then you have to ban the Silverado 1500/2500 and the Ford F-250/350 HD as well.
From crowded urban streets? Sure. Those big tandem-wheel pickups are quite huge, and should not be driving around narrow urban streets which are meant for commuters. If you want to drive them around cross-country, that's a completely different subject.
If you ask me, this is pure publicity; people drove large trucks before SUV's became chic, and a ban on them is simple prejudice against the people who buy them rather than the truck itself.
Bullshit. Pickup trucks were common, but very large ones were not. Pickup trucks were not chic in the city; they were utilitarian, and very few people commuted in the city with the things. Today, because SUVs have become a fashion statement, people drive to and from work with the fucking things in narrow city streets. They have become a problem.

Yet again, I note that certain idiots are acting as though "we don't want these things driving around crowded urban streets" means "you can't drive it out in the middle of Montana". Is it too much to ask that people address this issue WITHOUT pulling out the strawmen?
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The Yosemite Bear
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I don't care about Deseil, unleaded, or Hybrids either, let's face it, the average Bus, 18 wheeler, etc uses far less energy for the per ton size then that VW your average eco freak drives. (Spoken as the child of two eco freaks). Fuck I want a decent abuse to death US military vehicle. The things can run on moonshine if needed. Not to mention there is little to nothing they can't drive through. (Now how my mom managed to wreck one when I was a baby I still don't know)
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Post by Peregrin Toker »

PROMETHEUS wrote:What really pisses me off is that it's been demonstrated by MIT that it's feasable to make a hybrid semi, that is, a semi powered by electric motors, batteries, and driven by a simple gasoline or diesel V-6. Less emissions, more efficient... what's stopping them?
Pressure and lobbying by the gasoline industry.
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Post by Andras »

Study: Lighter cars mean more deaths
By David Kiley, USA TODAY
DETROIT — Reducing the weight of vehicles, mostly to improve fuel economy, has resulted in more traffic deaths, especially in small cars, federal regulators said Tuesday.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said a new study proves what the agency and many others have been saying: Until pickups and sport-utility vehicles are designed to cause less damage to smaller vehicles in crashes, occupants of the gas-guzzling heavier trucks will be safer than those in more fuel-efficient, lighter vehicles.
Fatality rates
Driver fatalities per billion vehicle miles from 1996 to 2000 in 1996 to 1999 models:
Very small cars 11.56
Small cars 7.85
Compact pickups 6.82
Midsize SUVs 6.73
Small SUVs 5.68
Midsize cars 5.26
Large pickups 4.07
Large SUVs 3.79
Large cars 3.30
Minivans 2.76
Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration



The study was done as NHTSA prepares to write new fuel economy rules and side-impact crash standards, said agency spokesman Rae Tyson.

While some environmentalists fear automakers will use the study to ward off stricter fuel efficiency standards, Tyson said it should not be interpreted to mean that fuel economy and safety are mutually exclusive. "It is very possible for SUVs and light trucks to go on a diet, without compromising safety."

The new study contradicts one the agency did in 1997, which concluded that vehicle weight reductions didn't increase fatality risk. NHTSA engineers have long doubted that study's methodology and conclusions.

The new study found:

• A weight reduction of 100 pounds in the heaviest trucks and SUVs, those weighing more than 5,000 pounds, could save hundreds of lives a year.

• Weight reductions in trucks and SUVs weighing less than 5,000 pounds and most passenger cars could mean more fatalities for occupants of those vehicles.

• The most fuel efficient and often least expensive cars, the very small ones, have a fatality rate twice that of small and midsize SUVs and four times that of minivans.

• In collisions that involve the heaviest pickups and SUVs, 83% of fatalities are in the lighter vehicles.

The study shows that when trucks weighing 3,870 pounds or more lose 100 pounds of weight, fatalities in those vehicles increase about 3% in rollovers and in collisions with fixed objects. But those deaths are offset by lives saved when the trucks are in collisions with lighter-weight vehicles.

The report confirms what automakers have long known, "that downsizing and down-weighting vehicles has an adverse impact on safety," said Eron Shosteck, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers spokesman.

But Joan Claybrook, a former NHTSA administrator and executive director of Public Citizen, said: "NHTSA's study is based on a comparison of the safety records of vehicles differing by 100 pounds, ignoring differences in safety design, which other studies have shown to matter more than weight."


Hey Shep- I ride to work in a bus :) $44 a month to get into DC, while I sleep for an hour. Can't beat that.
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The Yosemite Bear
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Thus showing that the net force is not with the really small vehicle. I think most true defensive drivers know this. THe danger is when you have Idiot+very large behicle sharing the road with you. Fucker that can ram you into a rockwall without realizing he's sideswiped you.
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