Bush visits Iraq

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-11-27 05:27pm

As publicity stunts go, this was pretty nice.
At least it will give the media something else to report on for the next few days.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-11-27 05:32pm

*Please get shot, please get shot, please get shot.*

Um... you like Cheney more?

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2003-11-27 06:26pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I really respect what he did, but my God, what happens if the current President of the US gets shot down during a secret flight over Iraq?

Has a President ever been to a region where there was active conflict going on?

Eisenhower visited the front in korea,Lincon often visited the troops in the field, and Madison was at the battle of Bladensburg in 1814.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-11-27 07:30pm

Kudos to whoever thought that plan up and the army of government employees it took to keep it a secret.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-27 07:31pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I really respect what he did, but my God, what happens if the current President of the US gets shot down during a secret flight over Iraq?

The odds are low, something the size of a 474 isn't going to go down easily, and the presidential planes have decoy and jammer systems. There would be a far greater risk simply from some random mortar bomb hitting the building.

Has a President ever been to a region where there was active conflict going on?

Several have.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-27 07:51pm

So ... when he was in Baghdad, did he get on camera and broadcast "Bring it on" to the local terrorists?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-27 07:53pm

Darth Wong wrote:So ... when he was in Baghdad, did he get on camera and broadcast "Bring it on" to the local terrorists?

That would have been cool, espically if he did it with an M4 in each hand.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-11-27 08:11pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:So ... when he was in Baghdad, did he get on camera and broadcast "Bring it on" to the local terrorists?
That would have been cool, espically if he did it with an M4 in each hand.

... and a sock in his pants + a cowboy hat.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-11-27 08:34pm

I'd love it if you just saw Bush go "I've had enough of this shit. I'm doing this myself!" Then he grabs two Colt SAAs, a bandolier full of rounds and grenades and a bandana or cowboy hat and he flies off to singlehandedly take out every piece of resistance in the land.

Despite my lack of respect for Bush, that'd just fucking rock.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-27 09:26pm

While here, Bush spoke with soldiers from the 1st Armored Division and the 82nd Airborne Division at an airport mess hall. "You are defeating the terrorists here in Iraq," he said, "so we don't have to face them in our own country."

What a load of complete bullshit.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-11-27 10:48pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I really respect what he did, but my God, what happens if the current President of the US gets shot down during a secret flight over Iraq?

Has a President ever been to a region where there was active conflict going on?

Nixon went to Vietnam, Roosevelt and Truman crossed the Atlantic several times during the Second World War, Lincoln watched a few Civil War battles personally and nearly had his head blown off during Jubal P. Early's attack on Ft. Stevens. Madison missed being in Washington when the British arrived in 1814 by a few hours. And George Washington personally led the army which put down the Whiskey Rebellion, the only president to actively lead troops into battle while in office.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-11-27 11:07pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I really respect what he did, but my God, what happens if the current President of the US gets shot down during a secret flight over Iraq?

Apaches destroy anything in the area that the shot came from. Helocopters land troops next to the crash site within 15 minutes, on the off chance that the Prez. survived the crash and is about to be taken prisoner. The VP or other high level offical was probably sitting by to take over command until the VP can be sworn in. Cheney/Rice wins a land slide in 2004. We hear about the 20 year curse non-stop for the next few months. In the end, life goes on--modern leaders aren't irreplaceable.

All the above was just my own thoughts on it. For instance, I have no idea how long it would take to get to the scene.

I suspect that the most critical problem when any leader dies is that an enemy might take advantage of the confusion to attack. Given the secrecy, that probably wouldn't be a problem this time. By that I mean, it would be obvious that Cheney is in control before anyone even learns that Bush is not.

The real question is what the public reaction is. Is this the hand of Allah, and hence a rallying cry to toss out the infidels? Or is this the murder of the man who stopped oppression in Iraq and Afganistan, and hence a rallying cry against Al Quada?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-11-28 03:46am

I have a rather strong suspecion that Air Force I would have been near impossible to shoot down. The flightpath was probably being swamped by low level flights to intimidate (or shoot) anyone looking like that have anything remotly like an RPG or man portable SAM. It probably had an escort of fighters equiped with all maner of jamers, an AWACS told to watch it like a hawk. In short, the odds of some guy with a MANPADS comming even close to Airforce 1. Even assuming they knew he was comming which I think was rather unlikly.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-28 07:24am

I say good on Bush for doing this. Would have been cool to see him in a cowboy getup and ride into Baghdad. Then again he'd end up joining JFK if he'd tried that.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-11-28 09:22am

I saw the picture of Bush with the troops at thanksgiving dinner in Iraq in my newspaper today. I think that the picture of the president and his troops bhind a overfilled table with food is not going to cheer up the population in Iraq much, considering thier food situation, or the lack of it....

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-28 09:25am

Darth Wong wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:I really respect what he did, but my God, what happens if the current President of the US gets shot down during a secret flight over Iraq?

Has a President ever been to a region where there was active conflict going on?
Nixon went to Vietnam.

And Eisenhower went to Korea.

Oh and Embrace, you do realize that saying that you want to president to be shot on a public board makes you open for felony charges.

Anyways, I may not like the guy, but I respect him. Takes bowling ball sized cajones to do it. And yes, OBL and Saddam probably pissed themselves.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-11-28 11:06am

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:*Please get shot, please get shot, please get shot.*

Wounded he gets sympathy, if he dies we get Chenny in charge. I'd much rather have him stay nice and healthy. Besides, the POtUS getting shot, and especially getting shot and killed in the Middle East would not be a good thing for anyone.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-28 11:15am

Aya wrote:Anyways, I may not like the guy, but I respect him. Takes bowling ball sized cajones to do it. And yes, OBL and Saddam probably pissed themselves.

Hey, I thought it was a nice gesture too, but let's not overdo it. He went on a super-secret trip in order to minimize the risk to himself and took off again immediately afterwards. The degree of secrecy surrounding this trip was unprecedented, and much higher than any other presidential visit to a warzone throughout history IIRC. And there was undoubtedly security up the wazoo, extra patrols, the cover of darkness helped, etc. While there was some degree of danger, I'd probably have a higher chance of getting killed by driving through Detroit than he did from that trip.

"Bowling ball sized cojones" would have been him staying in Baghdad.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-28 11:23am

Darth Wong wrote: Hey, I thought it was a nice gesture too, but let's not overdo it. He went on a super-secret trip in order to minimize the risk to himself and took off again immediately afterwards. The degree of secrecy surrounding this trip was unprecedented, and much higher than any other presidential visit to a warzone throughout history IIRC.

Actually that's likely not the case, when Roosevelt went to the Casablanca conference there was an extreme level of secrecy and one that lasted much longer. Casablanca was within Axis bombing range, but there was little threat of that and there wasn't a guerrilla war going on in the area.
Bush wasn't really at risk from a truck bombing or being shot, but US bases in that area of Iraq have been repeatedly hit by mortar fire.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2003-11-29 12:27am

In an odd way, it would have been even better if there was a leak a day or two before he left and he went anyway. Nothing specific, just the president of the US is going to be in Baghdad in the next couple of days.

Let's face it, even without secrecy, it would take a miracle for anyone to get close enough to take a pot shot at him. And if they were to try, most if not all of the shooters would probably be killed in the attempt.

They could've probably stayed at the airport for half a day, and then left. The outcomes for that scenario would've likely happened would be:

a) Nothing, no one attacks, and it puts out a message that "I can come right into your backyard openly and there is nothing you can do about it."

b) People trip over themselves trying to get to him, and probably don't even get close enough they're killed. Which puts out the same message as above.

The bottom line is, and the continuity of government is set up well enough that if the highly improbable happened, his successor would be right there to take over. So the overall risk was really minimal.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-29 08:23am

0.1 wrote:In an odd way, it would have been even better if there was a leak a day or two before he left and he went anyway. Nothing specific, just the president of the US is going to be in Baghdad in the next couple of days.

Then the trip would have been immediately canacled

Let's face it, even without secrecy, it would take a miracle for anyone to get close enough to take a pot shot at him.

Do you know what a mortar is? US bases are hit with them about once a week and one could easily reach any point in any US facility in the Baghdad area. Publicizing Bush's visit would not only place him at massive risk, it also brings an even higher level of danger to the soldiers and everyone else around him.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-29 02:46pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
0.1 wrote:Let's face it, even without secrecy, it would take a miracle for anyone to get close enough to take a pot shot at him.
Do you know what a mortar is? US bases are hit with them about once a week and one could easily reach any point in any US facility in the Baghdad area. Publicizing Bush's visit would not only place him at massive risk, it also brings an even higher level of danger to the soldiers and everyone else around him.

Very true. Then again, by the Bush administration's "fly paper" argument, that would be a good thing because it would draw all of the terrorists to Baghdad, thus diverting them from America and other international targets, as well as even outlying regions of Iraq.