The High Cost of Poverty

[Lonestar]

You guys live in the fucking Dark Ages.

Typically, the apartments that have washing machine hookups have washing machines included as part of the rent. Because both my folks live nearby I didn't bother throwing down an extra $100 in rent for a apartment at a property that provides washing machines in the rooms.

[Kon_El]

It's easy to toss out solutions of this nature, but you're still coming at it from the perspective of the middle class and having some resources.

I made 12 grand last year. Those aren't solutions I'm proposing its how I live my life.

[His Divine Shadow]

How much do welfare recipients actually get?

Should we compare to european countries while we're at it?

I think you can get somewhere around 700 euros a month in Finland if you are unemployed, when totalling it all together, I might be misinformed on this since I've only been partially unemployed and enver eligible for full support since I lived at home.

The government also pays part of your rent if you got no job or if you're a student, there is also stuff like child support (used to be around 90 euros/530 markka per kid per month when I was a kid), I think pretty much everyone gets child support except the very richest category of people.

[Edi]

You guys live in the fucking Dark Ages.

Typically, the apartments that have washing machine hookups have washing machines included as part of the rent. Because both my folks live nearby I didn't bother throwing down an extra $100 in rent for a apartment at a property that provides washing machines in the rooms.

Washing machines as part of on-premises equipment are not standard here. Most people have their own. Dishwashers, fridges/freezers and stoves (electric or gas) are the standard. Given that a new washing machine costs from 250 to 500 euros here depending on how fancy and how durable you want, $100 per month extra in rent for having one is highway robbery.

[Broomstick]

It's easy to toss out solutions of this nature, but you're still coming at it from the perspective of the middle class and having some resources.

I made 12 grand last year. Those aren't solutions I'm proposing its how I live my life.

How many people are you supporting on that twelve grand?

Do you or your dependents have any chronic health problems? (My husband's required monthly medication costs over $200 without insurance - failing to take it can be fatal, it's not a negotiable item. That's just one example)

Do you have family that can help you if you need help?

Nor have you answered my comments about simple lack of affordable housing of any sort in many areas, or the lack of a place to perform car repairs that force many people to go to garages rather than do their own work. Just because you can make something work in your particular situation does not mean it works for everyone. Part of the problem with welfare in this country is that everyone tries to hammer everyone into a one-size-fits-all solution which just doesn't work give the wide range of circumstances across the US.

Want another example? If you live in Florida or Arizona you don't need to have a heating system. Where I live, lack of heat in the winter kills people. Someone in Florida would view subsidized heating as a luxury. Where I live, it's much more a necessity.

[Darth Wong]

Don't have a washer or dryer. Try Craigslist. I got my currant washing machine for $50

What if it breaks down after 2 weeks and you have no warranty? You just wasted $50.

Can't cash your check at a bank because you lost your ID. Get a new one. You could buy 5 new ID's for what it costs to cash one check at a check cashing place.

Costs a bunch of money to have your bills paid for you. Buy some damn stamps.

Food costs too much. Get the savings card they just offered you and buy less prepackaged food.

Can't get credit? Instead of blowing the money saved above or spending your tax return on stupid shit put it into a savings account for bigger purchases or for when something goes wrong.

Agreed.

Rent too high where you live. Move to somewhere where it is cheaper and commute.

What do single parents do? If they commute long distances, then who looks after the kids after school ends but before Mom gets home? Even if they get free daycare from somewhere, daycares don't keep the kids 24/7.

Can't afford a nice car? Buy a shitty one. The money and time saved by having a car that lasts for just 1 year can help you save for one that will last longer. The key is to keep looking for that opportunity to get a car for little money.

This one is bullshit. Even if you can find a shitty car for a few hundred bucks, you have to pay for auto insurance in order to legally drive, and auto insurance will cost more every year than the shitty car did. Of course, you could simply drive without insurance, even though that's immoral and illegal, but I hope you're not advocating that.

Car broke down? Fix it. Repair manuals cost less than $10 and can show you how to fix almost anything for far less than it costs to pay a mechanic.

And of course, car repairs never require parts, right? And it's easy to do stuff like that when you're a single mother working long hours at a minimum-wage job while simultaneously trying to raise a kid, right?

[ArmorPierce]

I've never lived in an apartment with a washing machine hookup, however every apartment I've ever had that was in an actual apartment building rather than renting out the basement in someone's house has had its own laundry room full of coin-operated machines.

Usually depends on whether it is a large apartment building wit 60 units or a small one with 16 in my experience. 16 unit might be lucky to have one washing machine that isn't broken most of the time.

I made 12 grand last year. Those aren't solutions I'm proposing its how I live my life.

Where I live, 12 thousand wouldn't even cover the rent. So either you had additional support to live like that (typical person claiming to have experienced being poor whilst they were a student) or cost of living is real low where you live.

[Themightytom]

Don't have a washer or dryer. Try Craigslist. I got my currant washing machine for $50

What if it breaks down after 2 weeks and you have no warranty? You just wasted $50.

Also how do you carry a washer and dryer from accross town, they won't let it on the Bus, I'm sure.

Can't cash your check at a bank because you lost your ID. Get a new one. You could buy 5 new ID's for what it costs to cash one check at a check cashing place.

A check cashing place? Don't throw your sophisticated terms and lingo around here buddy. You can usually cash a check for pretty cheap at a supermarket though.

Costs a bunch of money to have your bills paid for you. Buy some damn stamps.

And use the checks you don't have, because you couldn't get a checking account right? or do we mail a wad of cash. Maybe they should buy money orders and pay 10 % every time as overhead and STILL not get their checks to the right place in time because surface mail sucks and the addresses to pay bills are usually a mile long.

its a moot point. Most bills come with a self addressed stamped envelope, the problem is that living pay check to paycheck, you may not have (Read frequently wouldn't) the money in hand in time for it to be delivered on time via mail.

Food costs too much. Get the savings card they just offered you and buy less prepackaged food.

..at the supermarket...

Can't get credit? Instead of blowing the money saved above or spending your tax return on stupid shit put it into a savings account for bigger purchases or for when something goes wrong.

Agreed.[/quote]

yeah ebcause your tax return is HUGE when you're on welfare, and you don't need to pay back medical bills, overdue utilities or back credit cards. i agree with you in principle about the stupid shit though. I suspect it is easier said than done. I have plenty of clients who had responsible plans for their tax returns and ended up spending it on

Car repairs, I generally pay FOR them.
One person paid for her FAFSA to be processed because she went to a commercial site and was had
Bought a car that broke down almost IMMEDIATELY
paid for an asbestos inspection certification which again, I would have paid for. or... the all time winner on MY case load...
bought an expensive cell phone instead of getting a cheap one because they rationalized a phone ffor making appointments and contacting employers and then spent more than they needed to because they were "getting a deal."

While I take issue with the ease with which you imply peoplec an better their situations, you are right, financial literacy and responsible decision making is a critical need for those in poverty. the problem is that it is difficult to be rational when you are experiencing poverty issues. When i say "difficult" i mean to the extent where situations contribute to behavioral disorders.

Rent too high where you live. Move to somewhere where it is cheaper and commute.

MOVE???? because thats NEVER expensive to do. First and last months rent, security deposit, moving costs?? Hello... also, the rent is usually higher where there is most opportunity for employment and transportation aka cities. Theres a nice big city in northern NH we could ship all of our homeless too, its a running joke, because the cost of living is so low, but they would be entirely dependent on social sceutiry or welfare, as there are zero job opportunities up there. its a dead mill town. "moving somewhere cheaper" might be feasible in the US if we resurrected effective public transportation. MBTA is a great model, because the subway connects suburban to urban environments, meaning areas can be low cost of living with access to employment.

Can't afford a nice car? Buy a shitty one. The money and time saved by having a car that lasts for just 1 year can help you save for one that will last longer. The key is to keep looking for that opportunity to get a car for little money.

insurance is required everywhere, but registration and inspection are. how is your cheap car going to do in an inspection? Cars don't collapse on schedule typically there are things wrong in advance.

Car broke down? Fix it. Repair manuals cost less than $10 and can show you how to fix almost anything for far less than it costs to pay a mechanic.

"oh shit my wheel fell off... maybe i read the directions wrong... gosh i hope I did a better job on the breaks..."

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yeah, the one-bedroom "apartments" which have a washer/dryer over/under hookup, and I have lived in them before and have been very happy for it (and won't live in one without it, now, because when I do I just wear through my entire wardrobe over the course of a month and then go wash it all at once rather than take four or five hours out of my time to wash my clothes on a weekly basis) , are invariably actually condos which someone has purchased as an investment and is renting out, rather than actual apartment intended to be rented to people. Of course it's usually easier to get into such a setup if you have cash in hand but nonexistant credit and rental history, or things like that, because you can establish a rapport with the owner. Otherwise you can end up homeless despite having a lot of money because the apartment corps will refuse to rent to you if you've dared to never have a credit card, potentially, or haven't had to rent before.

[Aaron]

And use the checks you don't have, because you couldn't get a checking account right? or do we mail a wad of cash. Maybe they should buy money orders and pay 10 % every time as overhead and STILL not get their checks to the right place in time because surface mail sucks and the addresses to pay bills are usually a mile long.

its a moot point. Most bills come with a self addressed stamped envelope, the problem is that living pay check to paycheck, you may not have (Read frequently wouldn't) the money in hand in time for it to be delivered on time via mail.

Don't American banks let you come in and pay the bill through the teller? I did it for years before I owned a PC. Or are we proceeding from the assumption that you don't/can't use a bank?

[Vendetta]

Hell, most places here you can pay household bills at the corner shop or supermarket through payzone (or get, for instance, prepay electricity meter cards, one place I lived used those)

[Kon_El]

Don't have a washer or dryer. Try Craigslist. I got my currant washing machine for $50

What if it breaks down after 2 weeks and you have no warranty? You just wasted $50.

Also how do you carry a washer and dryer from accross town, they won't let it on the Bus, I'm sure.

Everything you buy second hand has a chance of breaking down. Its a risk you take but the rewards make it worth the chance. I found a washer for sale that was close and wheeled it down the sidewalk. If I hadn't been able to find one close I was going to have a friend from work help me move it.

Costs a bunch of money to have your bills paid for you. Buy some damn stamps.

And use the checks you don't have, because you couldn't get a checking account right? or do we mail a wad of cash. Maybe they should buy money orders and pay 10 % every time as overhead and STILL not get their checks to the right place in time because surface mail sucks and the addresses to pay bills are usually a mile long.
its a moot point. Most bills come with a self addressed stamped envelope, the problem is that living pay check to paycheck, you may not have (Read frequently wouldn't) the money in hand in time for it to be delivered on time via mail.

Which is why you need a checking account. Barely making enough to pay your bills is all the more reason to avoid paying an extra 10%.

Food costs too much. Get the savings card they just offered you and buy less prepackaged food.

..at the supermarket...

Where the guy in the OP was.

yeah ebcause your tax return is HUGE when you're on welfare,

Most of the people in the OP had a job. Welfare is an entirely different thing

and you don't need to pay back medical bills, overdue utilities or back credit cards. i agree with you in principle about the stupid shit though. I suspect it is easier said than done.

I have known several people who would get their return, get themselves out of a check cashing debt, catch up on their bills, and then buy a big ticket electronics item. Putting nothing back into savings. Months later they were paying for payday loans again.

Can't afford a nice car? Buy a shitty one. The money and time saved by having a car that lasts for just 1 year can help you save for one that will last longer. The key is to keep looking for that opportunity to get a car for little money.

insurance is required everywhere, but registration and inspection are. how is your cheap car going to do in an inspection? Cars don't collapse on schedule typically there are things wrong in advance.

Insurance can be expensive but the benefits of having a car are worth it. If you bring someone with you when you go to look at a car they can usually spot any problems that would come up on it.

Car broke down? Fix it. Repair manuals cost less than $10 and can show you how to fix almost anything for far less than it costs to pay a mechanic.

"oh shit my wheel fell off... maybe i read the directions wrong... gosh i hope I did a better job on the breaks..."

I replaced my brake calipers and hoses in a parking lot last week from instructions I found on the Internet in less than an hour. Everything I know about cars I learned from either books I got at the library, picked up at the parts store for a few bucks, or sites on the net for free. Its not going to apply to everyone but most people can fix minor problems if they educate themselves. I'm not advocating trying to fix something that is beyond you but many people don't even do a bit of reading to see if they can fix things themselves.

[Darth Wong]

I still don't see a car as a responsible acquisition for a poor person. The cost of insuring, fueling, and maintaining an automobile runs into the thousands of dollars per year, even if you disregard the actual purchase price of the vehicle.

When I was a poor student, I took the bus.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Apparently America doesn't have buses.

[Vendetta]

I still don't see a car as a responsible acquisition for a poor person. The cost of insuring, fueling, and maintaining an automobile runs into the thousands of dollars per year, even if you disregard the actual purchase price of the vehicle.

When I was a poor student, I took the bus.

I get the impression that in many places in America, taking the bus isn't a viable option because the bus service coverage is so sparse as to be functionally nonexistent, and no-one's rushing to provide coverage, because everyone has a car anyway, so only poor people would want to use the bus, and there's no money to be made serving poor people.

[Kon_El]

I still don't see a car as a responsible acquisition for a poor person. The cost of insuring, fueling, and maintaining an automobile runs into the thousands of dollars per year, even if you disregard the actual purchase price of the vehicle.

When I was a poor student, I took the bus.

Many employers will not hire someone unless they either have a car or live close enough to the business that they can walk there. Even if they could easily take the bus to get to work its not considered reliable enough. Factory work on 3rd shift is decent money but the buses don't run at night. Having a car is expensive but it opens up job opportunities that don't exist otherwise.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Apparently America doesn't have buses.

The effectiveness of American bussing systems can vary WIDELY by region. I live in Modesto, which has pretty decent busses, but if I wanted to go to Oakdale (which is 7 miles away) there is only one bus stop in the town, so I'd better hope what I need to do isn't that far from it.

[ArmorPierce]

Apparently America doesn't have buses.

The effectiveness of American bussing systems can vary WIDELY by region. I live in Modesto, which has pretty decent busses, but if I wanted to go to Oakdale (which is 7 miles away) there is only one bus stop in the town, so I'd better hope what I need to do isn't that far from it.

Right in new york you can get public transportation 24/7. In North Jersey until about around Newark in Central Jersey the public transportation is not the best but decent in certain areas. South of Newark, NJ public transportation gets atrocious.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yeah, well, in suburban areas and small cities of Washington State (small as in 40,000 people in the city, 50 - 60 in the urban area), the bus routes run once an hour, usually in circles so that there's one bus, one direction, once an hour, not two buses an hour, one in each direction, no less.... And that's really, really good, because in similar areas in basically all of the midwest there's simply absolutely no bus service at all. We were Awing a friend of mine who drives buses for a university in Ohio with descriptions of that kind of bus service, which is geographically substantiative (you can ride hundreds of miles for a few dollars on the interconnections), but chronologically infrequent, making it very hard to do more than commute to work and back with it, as going to the store basically can take a minimum of two hours from some suburban locations using that bus service, and in many areas of the United States that would be considered an incredibly decadent service for the poor, and not even that much bus service would exist!

[mr friendly guy]

The poor pay in other ways, ways you might never imagine. Jeanette Reed, who is retired and lives on a fixed income, sold her blood when she needed money. "I had no other source to get money," she says. "I went to the blood bank. And they gave me $30.

You can sell your blood in America.

Over here its voluntary, although there has been suggestions we pay people to do it.

Is there a shortage of blood for donation in the US or something? Because this doesn't seem like a bad idea for some poor people to earn a bit of cash which if they saved it and other subsequent income, they might be able to build up some savings. Obviously I doubt they would still be a shortage if every poor person volunteered, but still.

[General Zod]

The poor pay in other ways, ways you might never imagine. Jeanette Reed, who is retired and lives on a fixed income, sold her blood when she needed money. "I had no other source to get money," she says. "I went to the blood bank. And they gave me $30.

You can sell your blood in America.

Over here its voluntary, although there has been suggestions we pay people to do it.

Is there a shortage of blood for donation in the US or something? Because this doesn't seem like a bad idea for some poor people to earn a bit of cash which if they saved it and other subsequent income, they might be able to build up some savings. Obviously I doubt they would still be a shortage if every poor person volunteered, but still.

Selling blood isn't good for more than a quick fix of cash, but yeah, blood stocks do tend to be a problem. Obviously they aren't going to give you a huge amount, and there's very tight regulations on both who can donate and how often. It also generally takes several hours to deal with the paperwork and waiting your turn, (at least the for the one here in Denver) so it's also extremely time consuming.

[The Spartan]

I thought you could only sell the plasma; that whole blood could only be dontated.

[AMT]

I thought you could only sell the plasma; that whole blood could only be dontated.

That is correct. However, I would suspect most people in that situation might not see or care for the difference between plasma and blood.

[General Zod]

I thought you could only sell the plasma; that whole blood could only be dontated.

That is correct. However, I would suspect most people in that situation might not see or care for the difference between plasma and blood.

It generally tends to get used interchangeably enough. But the point stays the same regardless of which term you use.

[eyl]

For what it's worth, my experience has been that you need to rent at least a two bedroom apartment before you can hope to get a washer/dryer hookup and that's in relatively new apartment complexes. And even then there's no guarantee that the area set aside will be compatible with the ones you may own or can find. Roughly half the apartments I've seen that have the hookup only have enough space for an over/under, one-unit style setup rather than the far more common (around here anyways) of having a seperate washer and dryer that sits side by side.

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)? Or are front-loading machines rare in the US? (of course, climate allowing, washing lines or a drying rack sould be a better option than a dryer anyway, if you're having money problems - besides the cost of the machine, you're saving on the electricity as well)