AD Army Corporal voices R. Paul support

[Darth Wong]

I honestly don't know about that.

Yeah, well, we're still left with the basic problem that a military must be an instrument of public policy, not an author of that policy. Whatever rules must be put in place to ensure that this remains the case, that's the justification.

[Flagg]

I honestly don't know about that.

Yeah, well, we're still left with the basic problem that a military must be an instrument of public policy, not an author of that policy. Whatever rules must be put in place to ensure that this remains the case, that's the justification.

I'm in total agreement with that.

[Lonestar]

Actually does I saw 4 NCO's in one year get an field grade AR15 and got demoted. Reason they stood up for their soliders and the Sereagnt Major didn't like so he looked for the slightest reason and was buddy with the general that was all she wrote.
I knew two other NCO's demoted granted it was DUI so not a BS reason.
This was in Stuttgart Germany
Here at Ft. Sill I handle the domain accounts and one of my jobs is to input the changes in status into AD. I see on average between 5 and 10 documents a month to change rank from E5 to E4, granted this is a training base with everthing from BCT up to NCO, 1SG schools hell I think theres even an SGM school here and students do tend to miss behave.

One of my civilain coworker is a retired Lt. Col he also agrees that there are way too many demotions.
My boss was 1sg and when I asked him he said he process many AR15 forms through that ended up with demotions.

So yeah there's alot but since the army is pretty big it's hard to see the big picture, but if your're in aplace that can see a larger portion then you being to notice patterns. The BS portion ok maybe thats an exgration at for NCO's anyway.

Yeah? And every person I've seen who was in the US Military, without fail, who has commented on this guy(including on a board where the population is 90%+ military/former military) has either mentioned the "what a fucking shitbird, E4 after 10 years?" or not disputed that statement. Only one person other than you has raised his eyebrows at that and he wasn't in the US Military, and fully acknowledged that the culture is different in his countrys military.

So you trying to finangle a reason for this guy is really more of a commentary on YOUR army career.

By the way, my Dad is a retired USMC LTC, and he immediately came to the same conclusion everyone else did: "10 years and he's an E4? He's a fuckup", so if we're going to play the "durr I know field grade officers who agree with me" game...

[Lonestar]

Except he essentially did give up large portions of his free speech rights. For instance, he cannot criticize the President due to issues with chain of command.

He cannot criticize the president in a public manner and/or while wearing a uniform. Even that is a stretch since the rules specifically allow for political bumper stickers on POV, so if you drove to work in your cammies you could plaster your pickup with WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE stickers if you so pleased.

Being at a rally/protest in uniform, and speaking on behalf of a cause/politician in uniform, is a HUGE no-no.

[Phil Skayhan]

It seems there was a four year break in service, so currently he may only have a little over six years.

[Lonestar]

It seems there was a four year break in service, so currently he may only have a little over six years.

I made E4 in a year and I made E5 the week I went on terminal leave(less than 4 years in), and I gave shitbags a bad name. It is still a warning light about the person if he's an E4 at the 6 year mark.

[MKSheppard]

When I was training to become a Postman Backup; they gave me a quick run down on IIRC the Hatch Act which affects Federal Employees; of which USPS workers are.

Basically...

If you work for the USPS, you cannot hold partisan political office.

It's been a while since I went through that training, but I vaguely recall it as:

If there are no political parties competing for a position, you can run for it as an independent -- e.g. "School Board Member At Large."

But the moment someone comes in and runs under the Aegis of a political party -- e.g. "Vote Lonestar-Democrat for School Board!" then you can't run for that office, and if you hold it, you must resign your position.

[Beowulf]

Note that Lonestar's experience in the Navy is different from in the USAF. You cannot make E4 faster than 2 years, and 3 years is typical. I was almost at the 5 year point before I actually put on E5. I'm sure the Army is different, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that it is significantly faster to make rank, in which case E4 at 6 years is still probably a shitbag.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

Well since I'm here and the topic is on that point...

In the army 2 years is automatic, 18 months if you're stellar, earlier than that you've got to get a battlefield promotion to go any faster.

The fastest you could possibly get E-5 in the army legally is 18 months. This would require you to come in as a specialist. My buddy made his in 2 the average ~4 depending on MOS. I'm shy of 42 months TIS and will be boarding soon. 5 is the absolute max you should be at for your E-5 and anything over 6 pretty much makes you a shit bag.

[bobalot]

When I was training to become a Postman Backup; they gave me a quick run down on IIRC the Hatch Act which affects Federal Employees; of which USPS workers are.

Basically...

If you work for the USPS, you cannot hold partisan political office.

It's been a while since I went through that training, but I vaguely recall it as:

If there are no political parties competing for a position, you can run for it as an independent -- e.g. "School Board Member At Large."

But the moment someone comes in and runs under the Aegis of a political party -- e.g. "Vote Lonestar-Democrat for School Board!" then you can't run for that office, and if you hold it, you must resign your position.

It is similar for us in New South Wales, Australia. You can run for office but if you get the position, you must resign. You cannot use your public position to endorse yourself or others (i.e. such as wearing your uniform) at any stage. I'm not sure why this is even a point of debate, we were taught the reasons for public service political neutrality in fucking high school.

[SVPD]

Note that Lonestar's experience in the Navy is different from in the USAF. You cannot make E4 faster than 2 years, and 3 years is typical. I was almost at the 5 year point before I actually put on E5. I'm sure the Army is different, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that it is significantly faster to make rank, in which case E4 at 6 years is still probably a shitbag.

The E4 rank in the Army is particularly problematic because the vast majority of E4s are specialists, but an E4 can be a corporal. A corporal is an NCO but a Specialist is not. (Please don't ask why it's like this. It's a holdover from when there was a parallel specialist/NCO track all the way to E-9... and bizarrely this was retained at this one pay grade.)

On active duty, still being a Specialist after 6 years would most likely indicate a shitbag.

Him being a corporal makes it very hard to determine. In order to become a coporal, the company command must submit a lateral promotion packet. This means extra work. Therefore, no one does it except for exemplary Specialists. Even simply "above average" usually doesn't merit it, because you generally expect any reasonably squared-away specialist to make Sergeant soon enough that it's not worth the effort. You only do it for a junior Specialist that you need to be a Corporal right away because he can obviously handle it, but is still fairly far away from having enough service or promotion points or whatever to make Sergeant/E-5.

In the reserves and Guard it's even more confusing because there are decent soldiers that just don't want to be Sergeants because they do not want the responsibility. They come to drill, they do what they're supposed to, and they may seem quite old for their rank, but they aren't shitbags. You probably don't want them to be in charge of anything because they don't want to and don't have the ability to lead, but they will do any task you tell them to that's suitable to their rank. Furthermore, promotion is just slower in the Guard and Reserves. E-4/Corporal after 10 years is.. well, weird. Being a Corporal indicates that, at some point at least, someone thought he was pretty good, but.. who knows what happened since then? He may have gone to shit and his unit was too screwed up or just couldn't be bothered to put him back to Specialist.

[Block]

In the reserves and Guard it's even more confusing because there are decent soldiers that just don't want to be Sergeants because they do not want the responsibility. They come to drill, they do what they're supposed to, and they may seem quite old for their rank, but they aren't shitbags. You probably don't want them to be in charge of anything because they don't want to and don't have the ability to lead, but they will do any task you tell them to that's suitable to their rank.

I've sort've been like this, although I'm fully capable of leading a team, I just don't want one, had my fill as a Corporal in the Marines and that was enough. If it looks like we're going to get called up I'll put a packet in, but til then, meh.

[Patroklos]

It seems there was a four year break in service, so currently he may only have a little over six years.

I made E4 in a year and I made E5 the week I went on terminal leave(less than 4 years in), and I gave shitbags a bad name. It is still a warning light about the person if he's an E4 at the 6 year mark.

Yeah, but your rate is known for promoting fact. There are quite a few rates where making first class is virtually impossible without a CAP no matter how awesome you are.

Lets not get to liberal with the "shitbag" label.

[Lonestar]

[
Yeah, but your rate is known for promoting fact. There are quite a few rates where making first class is virtually impossible without a CAP no matter how awesome you are.

Lets not get to liberal with the "shitbag" label.

Something like 2/3s of the guys who enlist with my rate are 6 year contracts with an automatic E4 promised. In rates such as these(like FC, ET, STG etc) it is *very* difficult to break E5 because of the swarms of E4s in it. I'm going to stand by my comment.

(you might be thinking of CTRs or operator CTTs)

[bobalot]

Hey Lonestar,

I'm just curious, what will the punishment be for this guy? Do you roughly know?

[Lonestar]

Hey Lonestar,

I'm just curious, what will the punishment be for this guy? Do you roughly know?

Going completely off the recent precedent of LT Klingenschmit...I'm guessing BCD is a reasonable expectation.

[bobalot]

Hey Lonestar,

I'm just curious, what will the punishment be for this guy? Do you roughly know?

Going completely off the recent precedent of LT Klingenschmit...I'm guessing BCD is a reasonable expectation.

That seems quite harsh, even if the guy was a massive dumbarse.

[LaCroix]

Going completely off the recent precedent of LT Klingenschmit...I'm guessing BCD is a reasonable expectation.

As far as Google tells me, this LT had a history of bad conduct and had received a couple of bad reports and a letter of reprimand, already. So a BCD was already hanging above his head, in a way, even before he went against a direct order in public. That's an entire category worse than what the Corporal did, (barring any history we don't know about that might be related to his seemingly low rank)

My bet is on General/OTH for the Corporal

[Lonestar]

As far as Google tells me, this LT had a history of bad conduct and had received a couple of bad reports and a letter of reprimand, already. So a BCD was already hanging above his head, in a way, even before he went against a direct order in public. That's an entire category worse than what the Corporal did, (barring any history we don't know about that might be related to his seemingly low rank)

My bet is on General/OTH for the Corporal

I'd say that endorsing a presidential candidate in uniform on national television is way worse than random protest in uniform because his "religion is oppressed". And in the US Military you can get booted for FAR less than this.

[dragon]

Well since I'm here and the topic is on that point...

In the army 2 years is automatic, 18 months if you're stellar, earlier than that you've got to get a battlefield promotion to go any faster.

The fastest you could possibly get E-5 in the army legally is 18 months. This would require you to come in as a specialist. My buddy made his in 2 the average ~4 depending on MOS. I'm shy of 42 months TIS and will be boarding soon. 5 is the absolute max you should be at for your E-5 and anything over 6 pretty much makes you a shit bag.

Don't forget that the amount of points for each MOS are different and change all the time. I was lucky always had low points and was under the old system, however I've seen certain mos's that had the required points maxed for months even years. The new system gives points for months deployed so if you never deployed you get no points. Usally though I noticed that if a Specialist spent to long waiting for points to drop they would get fustrated and left service at end of term.

Another possiblity he was demoted before he as an nco, example getting a DUI is automatic demotion for E4 and below.