Boston Terror Attacks

[Simon_Jester]

The doctors at the various hospitals are reporting that they're digging BB's and other shrapnel bits out of the wounded. This implies the devices were deliberately wrapped in such items. It's also why 2-3 dozen limbs were left severed on the scene, most of them legs and feet.

OK. I'm not sure we should be surprised when terrorists put shrapnel around a bomb, though; it's not unusual. Although I suspect Duchess is right about most of the amputations coming from chunks of the garbage can the bomb was in; getting hit with small-diameter bits of shrapnel isn't likely to take anyone's leg off.

[Dominus Atheos]

Eh, how so? Despite the difference in names, the Neo-Nazis and Sovereign Citizens have pretty similar ideologies. They all hate minorities (some may hate certain minorities more then others), distrust the government, and love guns. Unless you're referring to the evangelicals, but they mostly bomb abortion clinics, not a public area like this.

[FSTargetDrone]

A short while ago, I saw a photo of an unfortunate man injured at the race being pushed in a wheelchair because he was missing both of his legs. I wasn't looking for it and was surprised to see it where I did. Don't go looking for those pictures. You can't unsee these things.

[Ahriman238]

Friends, family and I are fine. Thank god for being to lazy to go see the Marathon in person.

They've reportedly locked down Mass. General Hospital, a device was found in the parking garage.

The Navy's lending a few EOD teams to existing police efforts, they just have too many possible bombs and suspicious packages reported to check up on all of them.

I can also confirm that the first bomb went off near a tent set aside for the Sandy Hook survivors/families. Not sure if That Fucker planned it that way or not.

You wouldn't think it from all the reported possibles, but no one here seems to be panicking.

[Dominus Atheos]

Here's what Slate magazine had to say about limb amputation and reattachment in 2005:

Late Saturday night in Anchorage, Alaska, a man's girlfriend cut off his penis and flushed it down the toilet. A municipal worker recovered the penis; surgeons had sewed it back on by morning. How long can you wait before reattaching a severed body part?

A day or two, at least. The man in Alaska was lucky to have his penis sawed off in a frigid climate (though the incident did occur indoors). A severed finger can survive for at least 12 hours in a warm environment and up to a couple of days if refrigerated. Some reports indicate that body parts can survive for as many as four days before being reattached.

Doctors suggest that a severed penis or other body part should be sealed in a plastic bag and placed on ice. Direct contact with the ice can cause frostbite and damage the tissue, and suspending severed body parts in water has been shown to make reattachment more difficult.

Not every part of the body is as resilient as the finger. Muscle tends to have a faster metabolism than other kinds of tissue, so a severed arm or leg will deteriorate more quickly than your pinkie (a full limb must be reattached within six hours to 12 hours). Cartilage has a particularly slow metabolism, so a severed ear or nose can be quite durable. The types of tissues in the penis actually make it an excellent candidate for longer stretches in the ice bucket.

The first step in reattaching a body part is to restore blood flow by reconnecting the arteries. For the procedure to work, the severed tissue must be alive, and the severed arteries must be large enough to manipulate using microsurgical techniques. The blood vessels in the finger are about one or 1.5 millimeters wide (depending on where you cut); vessels in the penis tend to be somewhat bigger and easier to work with.

You also need to reattach the veins, or blood won't be able to flow out of the severed part. Without a conduit for outflow, the body part will swell, which can cause tissue damage. When veins can't be sewn up right away, surgeons apply live leeches. A single leech can suck up 10 cubic centimeters of blood from a severed penis; a chemical in its saliva, hirudin, keeps blood from clotting and allows continued drainage.

Tendons, bone, and nerves must also be reattached. In general, the cleaner the cut, the more simple the operation. Ears, which have small arteries and which, when severed, are often ripped off or bitten off, tend to be tricky.

Even in the case of a clean cut, surgeons often remove some tissue to shorten the appendage. When the veins and arteries are stretched, tension on the stitches can jeopardize the procedure; shortening the severed part allows a bit of slack. In situations where significant shortening is undesirable, vein grafts from other parts of the body can provide some leeway.

Not to be morbid, but I imagine the hardest part will be matching limbs to victims...

[Broomstick]

Hence my question, why Neo-Nazi as opposed to just far right?

Oh, that - well, I've seen some speculation regarding Hitler's birthday, but that's not until the 20th, right?

I've also heard other suggestions like "teabagger" as well as Muslims and North Korea. Frankly, anyone who claims to know whose responsible at this point is most likely full of shit.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A short while ago, I saw a photo of an unfortunate man injured at the race being pushed in a wheelchair because he was missing both of his legs. I wasn't looking for it and was surprised to see it where I did. Don't go looking for those pictures. You can't unsee these things.

I saw one of two women, probably dead, with their legs missing through to the thigh being triaged as other EMTs responded to the four or so people, one also obviously missing limbs, around them, and the five or six severed limbs in the picture. A lot of the long, thin objects visible left on the ground in afterwards photos released are actually severed limbs still in parts of the clothes the people were wearing. It is utterly gruesome and I second the motion to just tune it out. I was artificially hardened having stumbled across the body of a drowned person while playing in a river when I was nine; you don't have to be artificially hardened, so please don't start by looking at this stuff. It's noticeably worse than even the most gratuitously realistic war movies.

[Gandalf]

Oh, that - well, I've seen some speculation regarding Hitler's birthday, but that's not until the 20th, right?

Yeah, 20-4-1889.

I've also heard other suggestions like "teabagger" as well as Muslims and North Korea. Frankly, anyone who claims to know whose responsible at this point is most likely full of shit.

However, the first guy to suspect the right guys can look like they were right all along. It's an easy way to score social points.

[Broomstick]

Not to be morbid, but I imagine the hardest part will be matching limbs to victims...

Not to be even more morbid, but some of the pictures (including the prior mentioned guy in the wheelchair) indicate that the cuts were not clean in any sense of the word and some of the severed limbs will simply be too damaged to re-attached.

Spoilered - read at your own risk. Very graphic description of limb loss. Spoiler

The gent in the wheelchair has stumps revealing shattered bones below the knee largely stripped of tissue. That's not something that can be sewn back together or reattached. The limb was not so much cut off as partially obliterated.

I agree with the Duchess on this one - I've seen horrific mutilation of a human body in real life, it's not the worst thing ever, but really, you don't have to look at things like that.

[Sea Skimmer]

Here's what Slate magazine had to say about limb amputation and reattachment in 2005:

That article frankly has very little relevance to limbs removed by explosive blast. Knife cutting leaves well, cuts. A clear wound you can repair. Blast and shrapnel burn, tear and pulverize tissue, often over a wide area, and drive contamination into the wounds. The more graphic photos and video make it clear that many peoples limbs were completely destroyed. Very little hope would exist for reattaching anything even if it could be swiftly recovered. Its not untypical to need to amputate limbs that even remain attached after explosions like this, they can simply be damaged too many places for repair to be possible even with the best surgical care.

[PainRack]

A shocking piece of news to wake up to after crawling out of bed.... My best wishes to anyone who's affected by this.....


It would seem that Boston did get one lucky break. If the other devices had exploded, I shudder to imagine how EMS could had coped..

[PainRack]

Here's what Slate magazine had to say about limb amputation and reattachment in 2005:

That article frankly has very little relevance to limbs removed by explosive blast. Knife cutting leaves well, cuts. A clear wound you can repair. Blast and shrapnel burn, tear and pulverize tissue, often over a wide area, and drive contamination into the wounds. The more graphic photos and video make it clear that many peoples limbs were completely destroyed. Very little hope would exist for reattaching anything even if it could be swiftly recovered.

Having said that, the US is now one of the world leading experts in prosethetic technology, with lots of experience thanks to Iraq and Afghanistan........

[The Yosemite Bear]

because growing up in Cali where the Posse Comitas assholes derailed a train near stockton, I'm a bit prejudiced given that this happened on Tax Day, and it's the tax day till Hitlet's B-day week so that would be catnip to neo-nazi assholes.

[Isolder74]

Apparently the death count is up to 3 now, meaning that one of the critically injured didn't make it. The finger pointing is getting ridiculous. On a positive note, it appears the police are keeping cools heads in all of this.

[Sidewinder]

I'm fairly certain this was done by foreign terrorists- I suspect al-Qaida. Why?

1) Domestic terrorist groups have select targets, e.g., white supremists will attack places where non-whites gather, like churches in predominantly black neighborhoods, or synagogues; Christian fundamentalists will attack people and places where specific sins are committed, like abortion clinics; militia and survivalists specifically attack GOVERNMENT institutions. The Boston Marathon seems too diverse a target- people of different races, religions, and sexual orientation, all gathered together and causing great difficulty in picking out the people a domestic terrorist would want to kill, from those he would NOT. In contrast, the standard "Death to America!" type doesn't discriminate targets.

2) Lone nutcases may not discriminate targets, but the attacks seem well-coordinated- CNN reports the authorities are looking for a truck that was prevented from entering a restricted area, plus a dark-skinned man with a foreign accent. I doubt a lone nutcase will have the patience to make more than two bombs, and NOT use the devices as soon as possible, because he/she wants to set off three or more bombs at once- that suggests the bombs were assembled by a group or party.

[loomer]

Here's what Slate magazine had to say about limb amputation and reattachment in 2005:

Not to be morbid, but I imagine the hardest part will be matching limbs to victims...

You can't re-attach a limb that simply no longer exists except as a few shreds of flesh and shards of bone scattered over a city block.

[Broomstick]

Having said that, the US is now one of the world leading experts in prosethetic technology, with lots of experience thanks to Iraq and Afghanistan........

Well, sure - IF you have medical coverage adequate for rehab and one of the more modern prosthetics. If you don't you're screwed. I have an acquaintance on another message board whose artificial leg recently broke (wear and tear will do that after a certain number of years) and he doesn't have coverage to replace it. He's on crutches until he can somehow come up with the money for a new one.

That, and medical policies that exclude coverage for injuries suffered during a terrorist attack are more common than people realize, in which case even if you do have insurance it may not give you a penny in such a circumstance.

[Sidewinder]

because growing up in Cali where the Posse Comitas assholes derailed a train near stockton, I'm a bit prejudiced given that this happened on Tax Day, and it's the tax day till Hitlet's B-day week so that would be catnip to neo-nazi assholes.

I found reference to a domestic terrorist group called "Posse Comitatus" online, but not of the train derailing in California. Links?

[Flagg]

I'm fairly certain this was done by foreign terrorists- I suspect al-Qaida. Why?

1) Domestic terrorist groups have select targets, e.g., white supremists will attack places where non-whites gather, like churches in predominantly black neighborhoods, or synagogues; Christian fundamentalists will attack people and places where specific sins are committed, like abortion clinics; militia and survivalists specifically attack GOVERNMENT institutions. The Boston Marathon seems too diverse a target- people of different races, religions, and sexual orientation, all gathered together and causing great difficulty in picking out the people a domestic terrorist would want to kill, from those he would NOT. In contrast, the standard "Death to America!" type doesn't discriminate targets.

Eric Rudolph bombed the Olympics. Oddly similar to the Boston Marathon.

[Broomstick]

Although I suspect Duchess is right about most of the amputations coming from chunks of the garbage can the bomb was in; getting hit with small-diameter bits of shrapnel isn't likely to take anyone's leg off.

"Small diameter" shrapnel sure can take your leg off - if there's enough of them. Ever see what a shot gun can do to something?

Even if they don't immediately take a limb off that could be the end result if there's too much damage to fix.

[FSTargetDrone]

The thing about the guy in the wheelchair was that he was alive and apparently conscious, if not in shock. When I saw that, it took my brain a few moments to figure out that something was very wrong with his body. There is no fixing that kind of damage. The one website I saw it on is being slammed in the comments for showing it. I haven't gone back to see if it was removed. If nothing else, imagine a family member coming across that. There was no warning of "photos of a graphic nature below" or likewise and it was at the bottom of a series of relatively easier-to-look at images. Evidently another site was showing an edited version of the image with his face blurred and the injures not visible.

Anyway, from the one video that the news keeps showing, it seems like that barrier between the runners and spectators contained part of the blast? Either that, or they were just out of range of the worst of it. Several of the runners seem to fall, either by tripping or by being startled, but there were a number of police and race officials standing right next to the barriers on the street side who never even fell over when the explosion happened. Soon afterwards, you could see police, military personnel and bystanders tearing through the barricades.

[Broomstick]

The thing about the guy in the wheelchair was that he was alive and apparently conscious, if not in shock. When I saw that, it took my brain a few moments to figure out that something was very wrong with his body. There is no fixing that kind of damage.

But hey, kudos to the guy in the cowboy hat next to him - just an ordinary bystander, not medically trained, who nonetheless stepped forward and used his bare hands to clamp down on the injured man's leg artery to keep him from bleeding out on the spot.

That's the thing - horrific events like this also bring out the everyday folks as heroes. Quite a few people ran towards the injured to help even after the second bomb went off.

The one website I saw it on is being slammed in the comments for showing it. I haven't gone back to see if it was removed. If nothing else, imagine a family member coming across that. There was no warning of "photos of a graphic nature below" or likewise and it was at the bottom of a series of relatively easier-to-look at images.

I strongly feel that sort of image needs a warning and something to keep people from accidentally viewing that.

[Dominus Atheos]

Here's what Slate magazine had to say about limb amputation and reattachment in 2005:

That article frankly has very little relevance to limbs removed by explosive blast. Knife cutting leaves well, cuts. A clear wound you can repair. Blast and shrapnel burn, tear and pulverize tissue, often over a wide area, and drive contamination into the wounds. The more graphic photos and video make it clear that many peoples limbs were completely destroyed. Very little hope would exist for reattaching anything even if it could be swiftly recovered. Its not untypical to need to amputate limbs that even remain attached after explosions like this, they can simply be damaged too many places for repair to be possible even with the best surgical care.

My mistake. I haven't seen the photos, and was just going off what others said about metal fragments being the cause of so much of the limb loss.

[Sidewinder]

Eric Rudolph bombed the Olympics. Oddly similar to the Boston Marathon.

Eric Rudolph is a lone nutcase. The fact the Boston Marathon attack seems well-coordinated, suggests it was NOT the work of a lone nutcase.

[Flagg]

Eric Rudolph bombed the Olympics. Oddly similar to the Boston Marathon.

Eric Rudolph is a lone nutcase. The fact the Boston Marathon attack seems well-coordinated, suggests it was NOT the work of a lone nutcase.

2 bombs is "well coordinated"? Maybe if they were across town from each other.