The regime the anti-war crowd has been defending

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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

Master of Ossus wrote:Hmmm... Perhaps you are correct, although I think that the intent of the document is clearly an effort to justify military actions taken after the Gulf War had already ended, including the most recent war.
Oh, I agree completely about the intent.
I don't know enough about United Nations Resolutions to tell for sure, but I actually think that the little pre-operative statements that they make have some legal punch to them, though I guess that the document did not clearly alter Resolution 678.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Not to say that there are no moral justifications to knock off Hussein, but hanging one's hat on Resolution 1441 is not a good idea.
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Post by Oberleutnant »

Master of Ossus wrote:The EU vote had 11 out of fifteen members supporting the war, although some of those did not actually want to join the Coalition. That does not mean that they didn't support Coalition action, it just meant that they weren't willing to send troops or other equipment to the region to help out.
Sorry, I admit that I maybe totally wrong, but what "EU vote" do you mean? When did it happen? It is highly possible that I somehow missed this in the news, so I'm curious to know. At least few countries which are not part of Coalition, including Finland and Norway(?), would've fully approved the war if it had had UN backing. Germany and France, on the other hand, were against it under any circumstances, I believe.
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Post by Coyote »

Shame on Germany, Russia, and France...

... as new weapons and gas masks are found in Iraqi stores. Recent deliveries, apparantly... anybody still wonder why these nations tried to block US action and hide behind a shield of "diplomacy" to protect their dirty hands?

Folks should quit making spin for them.

And there's this gem...

"The prison in question was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children - toddlers up to pre-adolescents - whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene. Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I'm waging peace." - Scott Ritter, Time Magazine.

(Thanks to Marina for bringing it to my attention)
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Post by Vympel »

Coyote wrote:Shame on Germany, Russia, and France...

... as new weapons and gas masks are found in Iraqi stores. Recent deliveries, apparantly... anybody still wonder why these nations tried to block US action and hide behind a shield of "diplomacy" to protect their dirty hands?
I have yet to see a single *iota* of proof of these accusations. Remember two weeks ago, when they were claiming Russian Kornet ATGMs had been handed over? Not a peep heard about that ever again? What about these supposed NVGs that they were given? Where are they? Any new weapons seen at all?
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Oberleutnant wrote:
Sorry, I admit that I maybe totally wrong, but what "EU vote" do you mean? When did it happen? It is highly possible that I somehow missed this in the news, so I'm curious to know. At least few countries which are not part of Coalition, including Finland and Norway(?), would've fully approved the war if it had had UN backing. Germany and France, on the other hand, were against it under any circumstances, I believe.
France, Germany, Belgium, and I believe Greece and also Sweden opposed the war under any circumstances, though I'm not certain on the last two and would request clarification on the official Swedish government stance from a boardSwede - As for Greece, one suspects Vympel or Crown has access to the requisite sources or knows offhand. That probably accounts for our four nations.
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Post by Crown »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:France, Germany, Belgium, and I believe Greece and also Sweden opposed the war under any circumstances, though I'm not certain on the last two and would request clarification on the official Swedish government stance from a boardSwede - As for Greece, one suspects Vympel or Crown has access to the requisite sources or knows offhand. That probably accounts for our four nations.
I tried looking at Ministry of Foreign Affairs and this was the best I could come up with;
Hellenic Ministry of Foreign Affairs wrote:For several months now, the Greek Foreign Ministry has been preparing to cope with humanitarian problems arising from the war in Iraq. This preparation has been carried out discretely, since Greece's priority both in her national capacity as well as in her capacity as Presidency of the Council of the European Council was to solve the problem through diplomatic channels. Today, it is apparent that there is a pressing need for humanitarian aid action.

The planning of our policy has been based on a steady flow of data provided by Greek Embassies in neighboring countries, our continuous contact with the appropriate European Commission's services (ECHO) and UN bodies, a series of deliberations with all relevant Greek Institutions, both from the Government and civil society, as well as on evaluations of the situation made during visits of Deputy Foreign Minister Andreas Loverdos to countries neighboring Iraq.

The whole set of humanitarian activities under preparation aims at satisfying the needs of the refugees that might seek refuge in neighboring countries after the beginning of war (setting up and operating refugee camps, medical care and food distribution), as well as the needs of the Iraqi population (medical care with an emphasis on children), once circumstances allow the entrance of humanitarian organizations into the country.

This humanitarian aid will be forwarded through Greek Embassies in the region and mainly through Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs), which will be called upon to implement the humanitarian program, with support and financing from the Greek Foreign Ministry, which is coordinating the whole endeavor. The program will be implemented through close cooperation with other competent Greek Ministries, such as the Ministry of National Defense (air transport), the Ministry of Health (tents, medical items, medicines) the Interior Ministry, the Ministry of Public Order etc.

The program also provides for Greek voluntary contribution to the appeals of international organizations and bodies of the UN system, such as the UN High Commission for Refugees (UNCHR), UNICEF, OCHA etc.
As for whether or not Greece was in the 'No war camp', it was - sort of. It organised the emergency EU meeting on Iraq, which basically said to Saddam; shape up, 'cause the UN weapons inspectors are not going to be there for ever, and if you don't then you face the consequences. Leading up to the summit, the press were attacking it as a waste of time, mainly because no one could believe that Blair and Chirac could be in the same country together let alone the same room. In the end the French view of 'not going to be there for ever' was something like a few months, the British was a few weeks.

Interestingly enough Greece has, from memory, been ambiguous leading up to the war. It said a 'qualified no', meaning that it wanted a UN sanctioned war, and even then it was as the absolute worst case scenario. Then when the war started it allowed the use of its airspace and of Souda Bay. Aswell as operating an AWACS aircraft in Turkey - which Greece said it would remove if Turkey went into Iraq without the US backing. It kind of makes sense, the Government couldn't piss of either Germany and France, nor could it insult the US. Add to the fact that the population of Greece has an anti-US slant (still hasn't forgotten about the junta, despite Clinton apologising for it). So it wisely said that this is what we would prefer, but it still supports the logistics of the US and protects the US assets in its seas.

So there you have it.
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