General Police Abuse Thread

[Solauren]

Exactly what causes of death don't involve the heart and lungs ceasing to function?

Decaptiation might fall into this, if the brain does keep working for a short time afterwards.

Um. How is the functionality of the brain relevant to the heart and lungs working, following decapitation?

The brain could die before the heart and lungs give out, and vice versa.

[LadyTevar]

Um. How is the functionality of the brain relevant to the heart and lungs working, following decapitation?

The brain could die before the heart and lungs give out, and vice versa.

And, in the case of my dad, a stroke to the brain stem that governs automatic functions, such as breathing and pumping blood.
Also, exsanguination, which blood loss means your brain and other organs start shutting down from lack of oxygen and your heart goes into arrhythmia. The brain usually 'dies' before your heart.

[Highlord Laan]

We all know how this song and dace is going to end, anyway.

If anything, I'll find it amusing with the Surprised Pikachu everyone will show when they act all confused and faux-saddened at the explosion that will occur afterwards. I wonder how many precincts will get burned down this time?

[MKSheppard]

anyone heard about the new Minneapolis shooting yet?

Female officer mistakes gun for taser and shoots a suspect, suspect expires, now riots round XLVI?

[Rogue 9]

And the warrant on said suspect was issued because he didn't show up for a court hearing, the summons for which was sent to the wrong address.

[Napoleon the Clown]

anyone heard about the new Minneapolis shooting yet?

Female officer mistakes gun for taser and shoots a suspect, suspect expires, now riots round XLVI?

"Mistakes" despite being a 25+ year veteran of the force. If we pretend that this was a legitimate mistake she's still guilty of negligent homicide and was attempting to engage in battery, seeing as there was no legitimate reason to tase the dude. They know where he lived. Picking him up at a later point would have been trivial. Best case scenario she wanted to inflict suffering on the guy for a thrill. More realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.

And until the January 6th insurrection sees the seditionists facing proper consequences, I don't want to hear jack shit about "riots" when the majority of people present aren't engaging in destruction of property or theft. It is very standard for bad actors to move in and use protests as cover for their crimes. I'll give you the benefit of assuming you're smart enough to realize this.

[Raw Shark]

I don't have any official figures, but among the petty hoodlums it is generally accepted as indisputable fact that female cops are more likely to shoot you dead and get away with it. "I felt threatened," plays beautifully when you're 5'2", whether you actually did or had murderous intent all along. It'll probably never get addressed because it sounds sexist as fuck when you say it.

[MKSheppard]

Apparently she drew her sidearm earlier in the scuffle when it looked like lethal force might be needed; and when it wasn't needed never reholstered it; then brainfarted later and went TASER TASER TASER without realising she'd never holstered/swapped from lethal to less than lethal and was still using lethal force.

It's happened to other cops before as well.

[MKSheppard]

More realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.

"I am a white cop. YES, LETS KILL A BLACK MALE SUSPECT IN 2021. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN."

More plausible case: Silly weapons design.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-dumb-de ... macintosh/

Fitts' data showed that during one 22-month period of the war, the Air Force reported an astounding 457 crashes just like the one in which our imaginary pilot hit the runway thinking everything was fine. But the culprit was maddeningly obvious for anyone with the patience to look. Fitts' colleague Alfonse Chapanis did the looking. When he started investigating the airplanes themselves, talking to people about them, sitting in the cockpits, he also didn’t see evidence of poor training. He saw, instead, the impossibility of flying these planes at all. Instead of “pilot error,” he saw what he called, for the first time, “designer error.”

The reason why all those pilots were crashing when their B-17s were easing into a landing was that the flaps and landing gear controls looked exactly the same. The pilots were simply reaching for the landing gear, thinking they were ready to land. And instead, they were pulling the wing flaps, slowing their descent, and driving their planes into the ground with the landing gear still tucked in. Chapanis came up with an ingenious solution: He created a system of distinctively shaped knobs and levers that made it easy to distinguish all the controls of the plane merely by feel, so that there’s no chance of confusion even if you’re flying in the dark.

By law, that ingenious bit of design—known as shape coding—still governs landing gear and wing flaps in every airplane today. And the underlying idea is all around you: It’s why the buttons on your videogame controller are differently shaped, with subtle texture differences so you can tell which is which. It’s why the dials and knobs in your car are all slightly different, depending on what they do. And it’s the reason your virtual buttons on your smartphone adhere to a pattern language.

I think there's a strong case to be made for redesigning less than lethals like TASERS so that they are like Star Trek "dustbuster" phasers, rather than pistol gripped weapons; even at the loss of accuracy.

[Jub]

Apparently she drew her sidearm earlier in the scuffle when it looked like lethal force might be needed; and when it wasn't needed never reholstered it; then brainfarted later and went TASER TASER TASER without realising she'd never holstered/swapped from lethal to less than lethal and was still using lethal force.

It's happened to other cops before as well.

She never realized that she had to disengage the safety before firing? How about the fact that her sidearm weighs a different amount than her taser? Hell, why did she even feel the need to use a taser on somebody for a routine traffic stop?

When soldiers have tighter ROEs than US cops and harsher punishments for fucking up said ROEs I have zero sympathies for police officers.

[LadyTevar]

I think there's a strong case to be made for redesigning less than lethals like TASERS so that they are like Star Trek "dustbuster" phasers, rather than pistol gripped weapons; even at the loss of accuracy.

Yes, this is the big question: How Can You Mistake a Gun for a Taser?

The US-based Axon company, which developed the Taser used by the Brooklyn Center police department involved in this incident, was quoted as saying their weapons were designed to be distinguishable from handguns.

It had "implemented numerous features and training recommendations to reduce the possibility of these incidents occurring" - including making them look and feel different from a firearm.

Distinctive Taser features include that they

are often produced in bright colours
weigh significantly less than police guns
typically have different grips
have no trigger safety mechanism, as most guns do
Police officers are typically trained to keep guns in a holster on their dominant side to avoid confusing it with their Taser, which is kept on the belt on the other side of the body.

The Brooklyn Center police manual says that officers must position Tasers "in a reaction-side holster on the side opposite the duty weapon".

The article in the link has several photos of tasers v/s guns, and how they're carried.

[Agent Fisher]

I feel the need to chime in, as I have carried a firearm and a taser at the same time. Yes, they weight differently, they can come in different colors, and the grips aren't exactly the same as firearms unless it was a M26 Taser that's long since been discontinued. The safety on the taser, you flick it off instinctively in the drawing process, where as the Glock pistol she had did not have an external safety. Trigger safeties which the Axon mentions, they don't have any real impact regarding this situation, just means the pistol won't fire without the trigger being squeezed. That being said, when adrenaline is racing and you are attempting to stop someone, who has an active warrant related to firearm possession and a current charge of aggravated robbery that would show when running the person's information, from jumping into their car and fleeing the scene, I can reasonably conceive of not noticing the difference in weight, as stress and adrenaline do strange things to sensory perceptions, and you aren't looking down to see the color.

When I carried my taser, I kept it on my weak hand side, and in a position that only my left hand could easily draw the taser, so when stress and adrenaline would be pounding through my veins, when my brain decided to draw taser, my firearm hand would have no part in the situation. I've never liked the policy of allowing officers to wear the taser so that the strong hand is the hand that draws the taser. I always felt that it was risky due to how the brain and body would behave when under high stress situations, with the body responding to muscle memory.

Still, she failed, either by fault completely of her own, or partially a failure of training and tactics via the department. How did the department train their officers in use of the taser? How much training did they have with using a taser under stress vs using a pistol under stress?

All that said, I'm not say this was a justified death. This was a tragic, terrible accident based on the body cam video and audio. She is responsible for what she does on duty, responsible for every round that leaves her firearm. She'll answer for that, and 2nd Degree Manslaughter charge seems to me to be an appropriate charge.

[Jub]

I feel the need to chime in, as I have carried a firearm and a taser at the same time. Yes, they weight differently, they can come in different colors, and the grips aren't exactly the same as firearms unless it was a M26 Taser that's long since been discontinued. The safety on the taser, you flick it off instinctively in the drawing process, where as the Glock pistol she had did not have an external safety. Trigger safeties which the Axon mentions, they don't have any real impact regarding this situation, just means the pistol won't fire without the trigger being squeezed. That being said, when adrenaline is racing and you are attempting to stop someone, who has an active warrant related to firearm possession and a current charge of aggravated robbery that would show when running the person's information, from jumping into their car and fleeing the scene, I can reasonably conceive of not noticing the difference in weight, as stress and adrenaline do strange things to sensory perceptions, and you aren't looking down to see the color.

If you feel that much in danger why not call for backup or run the perp's address and catch them later? This is a failure in the process even before the shooting ever started.

[Agent Fisher]

If you feel that much in danger why not call for backup or run the perp's address and catch them later? This is a failure in the process even before the shooting ever started.

There were three officers already on scene, which from the video, appeared to be the initial officer who was the one that stopped Mister Wright, and Officer Potter with her trainee officer. They had him out of the vehicle and were beginning to place him in handcuffs, telling him he had a warrant when he broke free from their grasp and jumped into the vehicle, which is when she appeared to be intending to tase him before he could either drive off and potentially drag an officer, or go for a concealed firearm.

Yes, it may have been safer to pull back and allow him to flee at that time, and try and track him down later. But that is a question of policy that needs to be addressed at a far higher level than a police officer on a traffic stop.

[Jub]

There were three officers already on scene, which from the video, appeared to be the initial officer who was the one that stopped Mister Wright, and Officer Potter with her trainee officer. They had him out of the vehicle and were beginning to place him in handcuffs, telling him he had a warrant when he broke free from their grasp and jumped into the vehicle, which is when she appeared to be intending to tase him before he could either drive off and potentially drag an officer, or go for a concealed firearm.

That sounds like the police did a bad job of restraining him which is another point of failure. If you're so worried that a suspect might flee or go for a weapon it behooves you to restrain them properly. Barring that, don't force them into a fight or flight situation to begin with. The US policing system wouldn't have so many stops go wrong if there wasn't such an adversarial relationship between them and many of the communities they 'serve'.

Even beyond all of this, tasering a man in the back for trying to flee a situation which he rightly fears isn't a good look.

Yes, it may have been safer to pull back and allow him to flee at that time, and try and track him down later. But that is a question of policy that needs to be addressed at a far higher level than a police officer on a traffic stop.

I expect officers to be trained to prioritize de-escalation and community safety above all else. Making the arrest and securing the evidence are far less important than building community trust and ensuring as few deaths as possible.

[Agent Fisher]

That sounds like the police did a bad job of restraining him which is another point of failure. If you're so worried that a suspect might flee or go for a weapon it behooves you to restrain them properly.

I suggest watching the bodycam if it would not be too mentally distressing for you, which I say not as any sort of jab towards you. It is a video of someone being shot, after all, it is mentally distressing to watch.

They were in the process of doing so. They were placing him in cuffs, telling him that he had a warrant. They hadn't thrown him to the ground or tried to pin him to the vehicle while doing so. He was standing, having placed his hands behind his back and they were putting the cuffs on when he wrenched free and started to jump into the vehicle. There had been no sign that he was anything but cooperative until he wasn't. They were restraining him as training dictated and were not using excessive force at the time. They had no reason to escalate to a harsher restraint hold than they were using.

I expect officers to be trained to prioritize de-escalation and community safety above all else. Making the arrest and securing the evidence are far less important than building community trust and ensuring as few deaths as possible.

I understand that, but there is a debate on how Community Safety is served more, either stopping someone with a weapon charge and robbery charge from fleeing, which may result in that person causing a traffic collision and harming civilians, or by letting them flee, which immediately reduces the chance of that person being harmed by police and attempting to arrest them at home, which can lead to a barricaded suspect with potential hostage situation.

It's not an easy debate, there is no answer that fits every situation.

[Jub]

I suggest watching the bodycam if it would not be too mentally distressing for you, which I say not as any sort of jab towards you. It is a video of someone being shot, after all, it is mentally distressing to watch.

They were in the process of doing so. They were placing him in cuffs, telling him that he had a warrant. They hadn't thrown him to the ground or tried to pin him to the vehicle while doing so. He was standing, having placed his hands behind his back and they were putting the cuffs on when he wrenched free and started to jump into the vehicle. There had been no sign that he was anything but cooperative until he wasn't. They were restraining him as training dictated and were not using excessive force at the time. They had no reason to escalate to a harsher restraint hold than they were using.

In that case, they weren't at fault there. That sounds like a reasonable stop given the circumstances.

I still have issues with the escalation at the end though.

I understand that, but there is a debate on how Community Safety is served more, either stopping someone with a weapon charge and robbery charge from fleeing, which may result in that person causing a traffic collision and harming civilians, or by letting them flee, which immediately reduces the chance of that person being harmed by police and attempting to arrest them at home, which can lead to a barricaded suspect with potential hostage situation.

It's not an easy debate, there is no answer that fits every situation.

The thing is that it isn't a debate in most places. The UK doesn't even have patrolling officers carry firearms, Germany and many other European nations train for warning shots, police in Toronto started looking for taser alternatives in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5270544

Most western nations outside of the US have come down firmly on the side of de-escalation being the answer. So I consider the debate to be settled.

[GuppyShark]

Meanwhile, in opposite land:

The Independent Commissioner Against Corruption (ICAC), Ann Vanstone, released a statement on Wednesday stating the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) had charged the male officers with one count each of aggravated assault.

"The Director will allege that in the early hours of October 19, 2019, several mobile police patrols became involved in an extended pursuit of a man suspected to be driving a stolen vehicle," Ms Vanstone said.

"Police located him and directed him to raise his hands, and to then lie on the ground, which he did."

Ms Vanstone said it is alleged that a 35-year-old officer from Valley View kicked the man a number of times on his torso.

It is also alleged that a 35-year-old officer from Lightsview approached the man where he was handcuffed and seated on the ground, and forced the man's head to come into contact with the concrete footpath."

Unnecessary roughness when arresting a suspect after a car chase, it's rare enough to make the news and the officers will face the music.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-14/ ... /100067884

[MKSheppard]

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local ... 77d8fb0032

The story so far:

Westerville Ohio (suburb of Columbus, OH) police find a dude passed out in a car from a drug overdose.

They (Westerville police) take him to a hospital to be treated for the OD.

They find out he has a warrant for domestic violence.

They call the city police who issued the warrant.

Columbus police show up to take custody.

Oops, dude had a gun, sorry about that.

Shootout in the ER.

About 30-35 shots fired by 5-6 Officers.

Dude dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2uZB4iFMI

[Ralin]

"I am a white cop. YES, LETS KILL A BLACK MALE SUSPECT IN 2021. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN."

Yes, totally plausible. The police are absolutely arrogant enough to do that. In as much as they think about the consequences they probably see it as a way to flex and assert that they're still above the rules no matter how many people riot in response.

[Ralin]

"Mistakes" despite being a 25+ year veteran of the force. If we pretend that this was a legitimate mistake she's still guilty of negligent homicide and was attempting to engage in battery, seeing as there was no legitimate reason to tase the dude. They know where he lived. Picking him up at a later point would have been trivial. Best case scenario she wanted to inflict suffering on the guy for a thrill. More realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.

Honestly the best evidence I see that she made a legitimate mistake (which should still be criminally punished) is that she only shot the guy once.

[Jub]

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local ... 77d8fb0032

The story so far:

Westerville Ohio (suburb of Columbus, OH) police find a dude passed out in a car from a drug overdose.

They (Westerville police) take him to a hospital to be treated for the OD.

They find out he has a warrant for domestic violence.

They call the city police who issued the warrant.

Columbus police show up to take custody.

Oops, dude had a gun, sorry about that.

Shootout in the ER.

About 30-35 shots fired by 5-6 Officers.

Dude dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2uZB4iFMI

How did nobody notice he was packing heat while treating him? Why don't these departments automatically share data and allow one another to take custody of perps so they can transfer them from jail to jail at a later date? This is shitty policing all around.

Honestly the best evidence I see that she made a legitimate mistake (which should still be criminally punished) is that she only shot the guy once.

If a civvy did that they wouldn't get the same treatment so why do we pamper the, supposedly, better-trained police officers and let them continue to 'make mistakes' that kill people?

[Ralin]

If a civvy did that they wouldn't get the same treatment so why do we pamper the, supposedly, better-trained police officers and let them continue to 'make mistakes' that kill people?

Did you just skim over me saying that she should still be criminally punished even if she didn't actually intend to shoot him?

[Jub]

Did you just skim over me saying that she should still be criminally punished even if she didn't actually intend to shoot him?

I saw it and wasn't disagreeing.

My gripe is that manslaughter 2 is light for shooting somebody in the back when they aren't a threat and that no civvy would get off with such a light initial charge; which will be pleaded down later, of course.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

George Floyd death: Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin guilty of murder and manslaughter
Not sure if this merits a split into its own thread or belongs here.

Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has been found guilty of the murder and manslaughter of George Floyd.

The verdict, which was reached by a jury after less than a day of deliberations and read out on Tuesday afternoon US time, triggered celebrations across the city as crowds flooded the streets with banners and cars blared their horns.

Mr Floyd died on May 25 last year after Chauvin, a 45-year-old white officer, was seen on video kneeling on the 46-year-old black man’s neck for about nine-and-a-half minutes.

The footage drew outrage across the US and triggered worldwide protests and violence last summer.

The jury, which consisted white people and six black or multi-racial people, found Chauvin guilty of all three of his charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

Little reaction could be seen in Chauvin's face, which was obscured by a face mask, as the verdicts were read out.

The most serious charge, second-degree murder, carries up to 40 years in prison. Sentencing will take place in two months' time.

Bail was revoked and Chauvin was led away with his hands cuffed behind his back. He will be kept in custody until sentencing.

Mr Floyd's family who had gathered at a Minneapolis conference room could be heard cheering and laughing.

Mr Floyd's brother Philonise Floyd told reporters at a press conference: "I feel relieved today that I finally have the opportunity to get some sleep. A lot of days that I pray and I hope and I was speaking everything into existence. I said: I have faith that he will be convicted."

He continued: "Today, you have cameras all around the world to see and show what happened to my brother.

"It was a motion picture, the world seeing his life being extinguished and I could do nothing but watch, especially in the court room over and over and over again as my brother was murdered.

"Times, they getting harder every day," Mr Floyd's brother said wiping away tears.

He added: "Imma put up a fight every day, because I'm not just fighting for George anymore, I'm fighting for everybody around this world."

Mr Floyd's brother Philonise Floyd says he can finally get some sleep after the guilty verdict:

Mr's Floyd's family attorney Ben Crump said: “America, let’s pause for a moment to proclaim this historical moment, not just for the legacy of George Floyd but for the legacy of America.

“This is a victory for those who champion humanity over inhumanity. Those who champion justice over injustice."

Crowds can be seen celebrating outside the court and outside Cup Foods store, where Mr Floyd died.

Mr Floyd's girlfriend Courteney Ross, who joined in the celebrations, told a crowd: "Floyd also loved our city because he thought it was so beautiful and diverse. I agreed with him but I warned him about that because though we are so diverse, we are also so separated."

She continued: "I know it would be his dream to have this event bring us together. He has never been about divisiveness, he has always been about inclusiveness. Floyd would not forget those who were forgotten."

US President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris Harris and first lady Jill Biden called members of Mr Floyd's family moments after the verdict, according family attorney Mr Crump.

Speaking to the nation, Biden said Mr Floyd's death was “a murder in the full light of day and it ripped the blinders off” for all the world to see the problems with race and policing in the US.

He said the verdict can be a giant step forward for the country against systemic racism and that it is so important to ensure black and brown people don’t fear the police.

Vice President Kamala Harris said the nation still must work to reform the criminal justice system. “A measure of justice isn’t the same as equal justice,” she said.

Biden told the family, “Nothing is going to make it all better, but at least now there is some justice.” He added, “We’re all so relieved,” according to a video of the call posted on Twitter by Mr Crump.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson reacted to the verdict: “I was appalled by the death of George Floyd and welcome this verdict.

“My thoughts tonight are with George Floyd’s family and friends.”

The charges were brought against the ex-police officer after Mr Floyd died during an arrest outside Cup Foods store on May 25 last year. Police tried to arrest Mr Floyd after he allegedly tried to give a shop worker a counterfeit $20 note.

Video showing Mr Floyd struggling with police drew outrage across the US. The footage shows police trying to put the 46-year-old in a car, but Mr Floyd panicks and pleads that he is claustrophobic. They they pin him to the pavement.

Later in the video, Chauvin's knee is shown to be on Mr Floyd's neck as the 46-year-old gasps repeatedly, "I can't breathe" and as members of the public yelled at the police officer to get off him.

Prosecutors played the video to jurors at the start of the trial, during opening statements, with Jerry Blackwell telling them to “Believe your eyes.” It was shown over and over, analysed one frame at a time by witnesses on both sides.

Due to tensions in the city, the jury deliberated in a downtown courthouse surrounded by concrete barriers and razor wire, as racial tensions bubbled in the city.

The jurors’ identities are being kept secret and will not be released until the judge decides it is safe to do so.

Prosecutor Steve Schleicher in his closing statement said Chauvin knew the risks of positional asphyxia, had warnings from bystanders, ignored a fellow officer's advice to roll Mr Floyd to the side in a recovery position, and failed to provide CPR when Mr Floyd fell unconscious.

He said Chauvin "had to know" he was squeezing the life out of Mr Floyd as he had his knee on his neck.

He said Mr Floyd's heart failed because of Chauvin's use of force, not because of drug use or heart disease, as the defence argued. He repeated the statement by lung and critical care specialist Martin Tobin that Mr Floyd died due to lack of oxygen while being pinned down.

The prosecutor also argued Mr Floyd being big and being on drugs was not a "threat", but a "risk", and those factors did not justify the police officer's use of force.

Concluding, Mr Schleicher said: “This wasn’t policing. This was murder.”

But defence lawyer Eric Nelson argued in his closing statement Chauvin did what any "reasonable" police officer would have done as he was in a "dynamic" and "fluid" situation where a large man was struggling with three officers.

Racial tensions have been bubbling in the city of Minneapolis. In recent days, there has been fresh outrage over a 20-year-old black man, Daunte Wright, who was shot dead by police on April 11 in the nearby Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Centre.

The case is one of the most high-profile court cases in US history, after Mr Floyd's death sparked a worldwide movement against police brutality and racism.