The High Cost of Poverty

[General Zod]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)? Or are front-loading machines rare in the US? (of course, climate allowing, washing lines or a drying rack sould be a better option than a dryer anyway, if you're having money problems - besides the cost of the machine, you're saving on the electricity as well)

I don't think the price exactly helps. The cheapest front-loading washing machine I can find online goes for around $600. In contrast the cheapest standard washer goes for around $300.

[The Spartan]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)? Or are front-loading machines rare in the US? (of course, climate allowing, washing lines or a drying rack sould be a better option than a dryer anyway, if you're having money problems - besides the cost of the machine, you're saving on the electricity as well)

Correct. I've never rented a place that had room for a washer/dryer until quite recently where I have room for them to sit side by side. Consequently, I can't really say anything about whether or not setting them up as you say would have worked and frankly, I have to wonder if that would even be safe given how much oscillation I can feel when I touch one whenever one or the other is running. Especially the spin cycle on the washer.

[Beowulf]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)? Or are front-loading machines rare in the US? (of course, climate allowing, washing lines or a drying rack sould be a better option than a dryer anyway, if you're having money problems - besides the cost of the machine, you're saving on the electricity as well)

Over/under setup is exactly what you have. Specially designed top loading washers can also be used in a over/under setup.

[Broomstick]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)?

Over-under set-ups in the US tend to be significantly more expensive than the traditional side-by-side. About five times more expensive last time my Other Half looked into one.

There were basically two "solutions" to the washer-dryer problems - either make hook ups standard in all living units, or make laundromats common. Apparently Europe (at least in some places) opted for the first choice. 30 years ago laundromats were much more common in the US, a sign we opted for the second choice. The problem is that many, many laundromats have gone out of business in recent decades but living units were not retrofitted with the proper hookups for laundry.

In my current living situation I recently had an opportunity to obtain a washer and dryer free of charge. However, several obstacles prevented me from taking advantage of them. First of all, although I own a truck of adequate size to transport such items I could not obtain help in loading and unloading the appliances. There were people offering to help but schedules were incompatible or would possible require me to leave said appliances outside and exposed to the elements for a few days. Then there is the fact that there is no proper plumbing hook up in my apartment for these devices. This would require installing it, at my expense, and probably a substantial portion of the labor being mine as well. Then there is the water problem - we have a well, and the water has a very high mineral content. It's completely healthy to drink (well, not if you have problems with iron overload in your blood - you will not have an iron deficiency drinking my water) but will turn your whites orange and reduce the effectiveness of many cleaning agents, build up in appliances, and so forth. A water softening system of sufficient capacity for the washer would also need to be installed and then afterwards maintained. Finally, there is the capacity of the well pump itself. While adequate for showers and the like there is real question of whether or not it could keep up with a washing machine or dishwasher. Well, OK, if you run just one such appliance in the building, sure, but we aren't the only tenants. If everyone in the building tries to shower at once there is a noticeable drop in water pressure. Sure, we could install a bigger well pump, but there's that expense problem again....

The washer and dryer were free. Making them workable where I live would have been expensive.

Which is why I'm still taking my clothes to the laundromat down the road which already has the proper plumbing, sufficient water capacity, and a monster water softening system already installed. I'm usually in and out in two hours, the other customers are sane, it's safe, and it's calm enough that if I want to read (or study) it's possible to do so. The fact that it's next to butcher shop I go to and the attendants have set up an informal job information exchange are just bonuses, but it's very much an exceptional laundromat.

[Dahak]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)? Or are front-loading machines rare in the US? (of course, climate allowing, washing lines or a drying rack sould be a better option than a dryer anyway, if you're having money problems - besides the cost of the machine, you're saving on the electricity as well)

I don't think the price exactly helps. The cheapest front-loading washing machine I can find online goes for around $600. In contrast the cheapest standard washer goes for around $300.

A quick check gives around 250€ for the cheapest front-loader. The top-loaders start at around 300€, but there are a lot more front-loaders offered than top-loaders. Top-loaders are not that common around here, and most people just buy or have the combination with the washing machine below a dryer.

[eyl]

I don't think the price exactly helps. The cheapest front-loading washing machine I can find online goes for around $600. In contrast the cheapest standard washer goes for around $300.

Interesting. Over here, the front-loading type is much more common; come to think of it, I don't think I've ever encountered a top-loading machine.

I have to wonder if that would even be safe given how much oscillation I can feel when I touch one whenever one or the other is running. Especially the spin cycle on the washer.

It's stable enough, in my experience, at least with the dryer (which is considerably lighter) on top. I don't remember either machine shifting in use.

[General Zod]

Interesting. Over here, the front-loading type is much more common; come to think of it, I don't think I've ever encountered a top-loading machine.

I see top-loading machines all the time. We had one in my house when I was growing up, and we have top-load machines in the apartment building I'm in right now (These are shared on each floor, though. But leagues above a laundromat). Some of the laundromats in town I've been to had them, though they also had a few front-loading machines too.

[Aaron]

Correct. I've never rented a place that had room for a washer/dryer until quite recently where I have room for them to sit side by side. Consequently, I can't really say anything about whether or not setting them up as you say would have worked and frankly, I have to wonder if that would even be safe given how much oscillation I can feel when I touch one whenever one or the other is running. Especially the spin cycle on the washer.

There quite safe (in-laws and various family have them), you just have to make sure they are properly levelled. Just like a regular washer or dryer.

[Uraniun235]

I was doing apartment searching before I received notice that I was going to be laid off in a few weeks, and it seemed like nearly all of the apartments in a town of 20,000 had no built-in laundry, but all advertised either being near laundry, or having an on-site laundry center.

[The Spartan]

Correct. I've never rented a place that had room for a washer/dryer until quite recently where I have room for them to sit side by side. Consequently, I can't really say anything about whether or not setting them up as you say would have worked and frankly, I have to wonder if that would even be safe given how much oscillation I can feel when I touch one whenever one or the other is running. Especially the spin cycle on the washer.

There quite safe (in-laws and various family have them), you just have to make sure they are properly levelled. Just like a regular washer or dryer.

The ones designed as over/unders are sure, but stacking a stand alone on top of another stand alone?

[Stark]

Front loaders are better, but they're only slowly displacing legacy top-loaders in Australia. Their massively superior water efficiency is such that there were subsidies (significant ones) on their purchase.

[Aaron]

Correct. I've never rented a place that had room for a washer/dryer until quite recently where I have room for them to sit side by side. Consequently, I can't really say anything about whether or not setting them up as you say would have worked and frankly, I have to wonder if that would even be safe given how much oscillation I can feel when I touch one whenever one or the other is running. Especially the spin cycle on the washer.

There quite safe (in-laws and various family have them), you just have to make sure they are properly levelled. Just like a regular washer or dryer.

The ones designed as over/unders are sure, but stacking a stand alone on top of another stand alone?

I can't see how it would be, there not designed to and there aren't any holes for brackets (nor have I seen brackets) which is the only way I would consider it.

[The Spartan]

I can't see how it would be, there not designed to and there aren't any holes for brackets (nor have I seen brackets) which is the only way I would consider it.

In know, that's my point. The ones designed like that are fine, but stacking a stand alone on top of another, since most aren't designed with this in mind, could be quite dangerous.

This is why I brought it up:

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)?

My impression was the eyl thought that if there wasn't room you could just stack them. Though in retrospect he may have just meant purchasing an over/under in the first place.

But then that still gets us into the whole issue of hookups in the current apartment, expense, etc.

[Aaron]

Oops, I missed that bit.

[TimothyC]

I can't see how it would be, there not designed to and there aren't any holes for brackets (nor have I seen brackets) which is the only way I would consider it.

<Disclaimer: I work for a regional Consumer Electronics/Appliance Company, and thus am exposed to this stuff all the time>

The same way you would *Properly* secure a laundry unit to a pedestal. You bolt them together.

The Brackets usually fit on the back, and all stackable units I have experience with (GE, Whirlpool, LG, and Frigidaire) have the tops of the washers reinforced, and they use a separate sheet of metal that is dampened for the top. Samsung units are a pain to stack, and I won't even mention Bosch.

Electrolux is the only major US brand that uses both a rear bracket, and side guides.

Broomstick: Cheap Prestacks cost roughly one and a half to two times what an equivalent quality Top-loader will get you (cheap new top-loaders can be had for about $250-300 a piece, and a prestack is about $800). At the $800 price point a lot of people either go for a low end Front loader set and stack kit (about 1000) or high end top loaders ($900 or so). Then you have the combos (both Washer and Dryer in one unit), which are just unnatural.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Am I understanding correctly that an under/over setup is a combined washing machine/dryer? If so, if the space available is too narrow to place two machines side-by-side, why not place one on top of the other (which is how mine are set up)?

Over-under set-ups in the US tend to be significantly more expensive than the traditional side-by-side. About five times more expensive last time my Other Half looked into one.

Five times more expensive seems a bit excessive. I bought a Kenmore combo center from Sears with decent capacities and it was $860 dollars after discounts. Buying a standalone washer and dryer of similar performance would have been mabye 20% less. The problem with the combos they tend to be crappy compared to nice standalone models and they space for the combo is very cramped. If i could do it over again I'd spend the extra money on a really quiet front loader and stack them but I was on a budget at the time and didnt want to dig into savings.

[HamsterViking]

Yeah, being poor sucks ass. What else is new? This article didn't tell me anything I didn't know from firsthand experience. I read this earlier today, and all it did was make me glad that my city has a reliable bus system and that my landlady is willing to work with me when the rent is late. Two hours later I got an evection notice on my door. When my wife got home from her welfare-related community service, she informed me that the rental assitance we were expecting from the state was only going to cover 1/6th of what we owe. I spent the rest of the day calling up charities and social services. Uselss.

What if it breaks down after 2 weeks and you have no warranty? You just wasted $50.

Also how do you carry a washer and dryer from accross town, they won't let it on the Bus, I'm sure.

Everything you buy second hand has a chance of breaking down. Its a risk you take but the rewards make it worth the chance. I found a washer for sale that was close and wheeled it down the sidewalk. If I hadn't been able to find one close I was going to have a friend from work help me move it.

Still, this only works if you even have $50 to begin with and a place to hook the washer up. I sure as hell don't.

Can't afford a nice car? Buy a shitty one. The money and time saved by having a car that lasts for just 1 year can help you save for one that will last longer. The key is to keep looking for that opportunity to get a car for little money.

insurance is required everywhere, but registration and inspection are. how is your cheap car going to do in an inspection? Cars don't collapse on schedule typically there are things wrong in advance.

Insurance can be expensive but the benefits of having a car are worth it. If you bring someone with you when you go to look at a car they can usually spot any problems that would come up on it.

Dude, my wife and I have been saving up to buy a shitty car for more than a year. So far no luck.

[Dahak]

I can't see how it would be, there not designed to and there aren't any holes for brackets (nor have I seen brackets) which is the only way I would consider it.

In know, that's my point. The ones designed like that are fine, but stacking a stand alone on top of another, since most aren't designed with this in mind, could be quite dangerous.

In my cellar, the only way to put your washing machine and dryer are above each other. Every family in the house does alike. You can get ridiculously cheap suction cups for the dryer, so it stays fixed. In all the two years we had it, it didn't move an inch, and no neighbours had their dryer crash to the floor...
It's not super-expensive rocket science...

[eyl]

My impression was the eyl thought that if there wasn't room you could just stack them. Though in retrospect he may have just meant purchasing an over/under in the first place.

No, I was referring to stacking a stand-alone dryer on top of a stand-alone washing machine. That's the setup I have in my house, and I've never seen them shift noticably, even without any bracing (nor have I heard of it happen to anyone else, and IIRC everyone I know who has a dryer uses the same set-up). Doing it the opposite way (dryer on bottom) may be less stable, due to the washing machine's higher weight and, I think, greater vibration.

[The Spartan]

Huh. This is mostly news to me. The washers and dryers we had at Sears and Home Depot when I worked there and everyone I've ever seen growing up, even the coin operated washers in my apartment in Fort Worth, were typically setup with the controls at the back, so if you set one on top of the other you couldn't reach them. Alternatively, they were either made as over/unders or were the really expensive models.

[LaCroix]

If in doubt, you usually have an ass-cheap table over the "under", so the "over" isn't even touching the "under".

I am still dazzled that you can't just have the bank wire-transfer your monthly payments in the US. We do that all the time for rent. Hell, even if I didn't place a standing order, I could just stroll into the bank, fill out a 5 box form and slip it to the teller. He stamps it, types it into his console and it's done. -Tadaa- Money is there the next workday morning.

And either way, I only pay 10 cents per transaction, if I haven't a XX free transactions per month account.

I always thought it was just a bad joke when someone told me his check was in the post. It's amazing that a country like the US are still using backwards payment methods like checks. (I'll not rant too much about credit cards this time, as backwards as they are.)

[Master of Ossus]

I am still dazzled that you can't just have the bank wire-transfer your monthly payments in the US. We do that all the time for rent. Hell, even if I didn't place a standing order, I could just stroll into the bank, fill out a 5 box form and slip it to the teller. He stamps it, types it into his console and it's done. -Tadaa- Money is there the next workday morning.

And either way, I only pay 10 cents per transaction, if I haven't a XX free transactions per month account.

I always thought it was just a bad joke when someone told me his check was in the post. It's amazing that a country like the US are still using backwards payment methods like checks. (I'll not rant too much about credit cards this time, as backwards as they are.)

You can wire money in the US, too. Landlords may not always be comfortable with it because it may not be how they "normally" collect rent, but the real issue here seems to be that major banks don't make themselves accessible to people this poor, and they certainly don't build branch offices nearby. Remember that many people living in abject poverty don't even have bank accounts, so the issue isn't really that they're not wiring money but the fact that they don't even have an account.

[Eldalote]

Okay, I may have missed some posts (I'm rather tired...)

But really, all the discussions about the washer/dryer combo... If you really are poor, why even buy a dryer?
I have the space and the money to buy one, but I don't have it. I don't need it.
I simply wash my clothes, and then hang hem on a rack, the next day it's dry, I don't see the problem.

[Broomstick]

I am still dazzled that you can't just have the bank wire-transfer your monthly payments in the US.

It depends on who you're doing business with.

My household has almost all our payments set up for automatic payment from our bank account, and our bank will do electronic transfers for us just as yours will. However, our landlord does business with checks - we pay him with checks, when I work for him he pays me with checks (although he's slowly warming up to the idea of doing things electronically).

So in the US you have the option of cash, check, credit, or e-pay, but not everyone accepts all forms of payment.

[The Yosemite Bear]

My brother works for Bayer now, the technicians across the room from him are from REAL 1st world countries (Canada and Germany) guess who gets to keep the labour laws in their native lands?, now my brother makes a lot more then I do, but his actual account ballance is waaaay in debt. You see the US system makes it easy for a college student to get loans, and get credit cards, which means that even with tax refunds he owes quite a bit more. Then there was the first year of his post graduation where he had less taken out of his payroll to pay off his debts and not get into rotaing intrest hell. The IRS was rather upset with him.

yes, payday loans are incredably predatory, as are check cashing companys, to get a checking account all you need is $35, a passport, driver's liscence and or birth cirtificate + social security card. (which isn't a pictured ID which is what most banks really want)