AR-15's brought to Obama townhall.

[Thanas]

^The judgement on the german law is still out, though - there are a lot of problems with it and it may do more harm than good eventually.

[PeZook]

^The judgement on the german law is still out, though - there are a lot of problems with it and it may do more harm than good eventually.

AFAIK most of the problems are with fraud so far, which is an organizational problem more than anything.

Of course, there may as well be some other valid criticism, but "Why should I pay?" and "It's socialism!" isn't it

[Thanas]

^The judgement on the german law is still out, though - there are a lot of problems with it and it may do more harm than good eventually.

AFAIK most of the problems are with fraud so far, which is an organizational problem more than anything.

The two main problems aside from wide-spread fraud are that a) about 70-90% of people buying cars now had already planned to buy a new car soon. Therefore all this will do is gut future car buying for a temporary speed rush. b) Instead of buying german/european cars, most people buy cheap imports. Therefore, german carmakers do not really profit from it. Which is a problem considering this was the aim of the program in the first place.

Of course, there may as well be some other valid criticism, but "Why should I pay?" and "It's socialism!" isn't it

Agreed.

[Duckie]

I'm (paleo)conservative, I'm a Jingo, I'm right wing, I'm libertarian, I'm a RKBA person, and I'm an extremist about a lot of topics. When I vote, economics and liberty are just as important as folk, family, and faith. I was a kid when I started voicing political concerns and should have kept shut up--I still should.

You do know what you sound like? Folk, Family, and Faith? Two of those are codewords for "oppressing gays". One of those is a word I know of that has no meaning besides racist and/or neonaziism.

I voted against John Kerry and think the world is a better place because of Kerry not being President.

I like how you consider America the world, incidentally. It's great for marginalising other nationalities (folk, perhaps, or volk), especially when you consider that John Kerry would have worked towards ending the war in Iraq. Whether this would have saved lives or not is in question, but your very word slip is amusing. America's goals, America's power is the interest of the world! The World is a better place when America is strong and jingoistic!

I think George Bush gave adequate reason for insurrection by the national debt he accrued

It's too bad you're a liar. Your movement is just another outgrowth of the Right, and everyone's known that since the Oklahoma City Bombing or even earlier. Where were you insurrecting, wailing, and complaining under Bush? Where were the Jingoistic Right Wing Anarchocapitalists who'd rather the country implode than see income taxes or corporate reguations in place? Answer- Nowhere. Bush was in the in-group, Obama and Clinton are in the out group. It's tribal loyalty, not ideology.

and honestly think Tea Parties would have started under McCain (just a little later).

Then you're wrong. The Tea Parties are corporate astroturfing and corporate funded, populated by angry, scared authoritarian-followers who have no clue what's going on but are threatened that a black man is in power and the right wing no longer is.
Under McCain, the right wing would again be in power, although less comfortably. Corporate interests, the Republican Party, and militia nuts would no longer need to try to influence power by fake grass roots. By all means, pretend Tea Parties are something ideologically independent from an arm of the Republican Party and its allies, not funded by corporate sponsorship and republican media promotion. It doesn't make it true.

I did not see where anyone (and barely Paul) in the Republican primary stood up for my conservative values and solemnly believe most conservatives feel the same alienation from the Republican Party Elite/Establishment.

"Conservative Values"? Oh no! Some minorities might not be oppressed for a few years! Corporations that tanked the US Economy might be restructured so that they can't do that anymore! God damn 2008, two vague moderates- who to vote for? Neither is a hate-filled extremist so I can't decide! What a pickle.

I voted for Ron Paul in the primrary and voted against Barrack Obama in the presidentials. I like Barrack Obama as much as I like being "affectionatly" called "college boy". Barrack Obama, however, is the President of my country--that deserves some respect, that deserves a lot of respect. My President does not deserve the vitriol that President Bush recieved and certainly doesn't deserve half the idiocy that he is currently recieving. There is enough of his own words to condemn Barrack Obama without petulent antics.

Any president who did what Bush did deserves vitriol. If there is something Obama has done that is as bad as Bush, you would be crowing about it to the end of the earth. But there isn't. There's only crowing about Obama because he's not a member of your tribe- he's scary and foreign, and therefore an enemy. When Bush was president, the militia nuts, the anarchocapitalists, and the corporate dupes were all silent.

If my conservative position wants to "take back" (if it ever had) America, it will only be done by personal choice and acceptance of the populace, not by shouting incoherent facts and wild extrapolations at others. I can not see why anyone would stay at these town hall meetings, especially a conservative trying to have his position taken into serious, deliberative consideration.

Because these people don't have a serious position. The party line is all their line is, and it's a stupid line. "It's fine like it is, at worst the insurance companies just need some more money". The people who support it are either shills or followers who don't know how to do anything but regurgitate lines. Scared people who are worried about their in-group no longer being in power, that a scary and foreign black man is now in power and that suddenly the world is ending because of it, or anarchocapitalists. Which are you?

This is America I am in, we are supposed to be mature and level in our discourse. We keep reverting to childishness for media attention or to silence through intimidation.

If there are Union Thugs beating the opposition, cameras would be much more effective than guns.

If we don't stop childish recourse in politics we are doomed to experience all that this country was founded to avoid--like the Civil War.

You talk of this like it's a new development, when 16 years ago your kind did the same exact thing. Same issues, even, in some situations.

I keep expecting that there will be a revolution of the adults, but when we are faced with mindless slogans like "Hope we can believe in", "blue dog democrats", or "NAZI death panels"--how can there be any change?

There is change- it's just away from the way the people who want to drag us back down are going.

In conclusion, thank you for your service to this country. It probably couldn't go forward if there weren't people trying to drag it down, as we'd grow lazy. Not only those who believe in the horrid message the opposition has- the politicians and the elite, but also the footsoldiers who fancy themselves independent and ideologically motivated who continually vote their elite into power; forgiving them any betrayal, as long as they're still a member of the in-group.

[Civil War Man]

2: Cash for Clunkers, why am I paying $40 in taxes so someone can buy a new car? Socialism one tiny swallow at a time.

But you're OK with paying 20 times as much to bail out banks?

Why not? After all, nobody cared about Cash for Clunkers until it became immediately apparent that it was an economic stimulus program that was actually working. Only then did FOX decide that it was an evil socialist program that must be discredited and dismantled by any means necessary. It's best not to think about how the biggest beneficiary of the program was Ford Motor Company, which had its first month in the black in years due to Cash for Clunkers. It just interferes with the "Everything Obama Does Is Evil Socialism"-flavored Kool-aid.

[Bluewolf]

^The judgement on the german law is still out, though - there are a lot of problems with it and it may do more harm than good eventually.

AFAIK most of the problems are with fraud so far, which is an organizational problem more than anything.

Of course, there may as well be some other valid criticism, but "Why should I pay?" and "It's socialism!" isn't it

Sadly with the already illogical thinking that Obama is a Nazi to some people. The fact that its a German law would probably strenghen that view to them.

Oh an Paradox, your problem is, is that you claim a lot but do little to back it up and try and dodge doing it at the same time. Thats not going to win you any point's here and it makes you sound like a nutcase. Proof of your statements goes a long way.

[Thanas]

On topic - looks like the AR 15s were part of a radio stunt. Idiots.

[SirNitram]

On topic - looks like the AR 15s were part of a radio stunt. Idiots.

Standard condemnation of HuffPo for being an anti-vacc sludgepit.

But yes. Radio stunt organized by a guy with links to the Viper Militia, one of the more unpleasant groups of the 90s, which ultimately got rounded up and jailed for stockpiling a little too much explosives and having a few too many things outright showing their intent to destroy government buildings.

[Broomstick]

If we don't stop childish recourse in politics we are doomed to experience all that this country was founded to avoid--like the Civil War.

You talk of this like it's a new development, when 16 years ago your kind did the same exact thing. Same issues, even, in some situations.

The difference is that 16 years ago he was still a small sperm swimming in future daddy's testicles.

[Samuel]

^The judgement on the german law is still out, though - there are a lot of problems with it and it may do more harm than good eventually.

AFAIK most of the problems are with fraud so far, which is an organizational problem more than anything.

Of course, there may as well be some other valid criticism, but "Why should I pay?" and "It's socialism!" isn't it

Sadly with the already illogical thinking that Obama is a Nazi to some people. The fact that its a German law would probably strenghen that view to them.

We should adopt Germany's anti-Nazi laws. Only a fascist would do that!

[FSTargetDrone]

There actually IS an Area 51. Like a lot of top secret facilities the government didn't so much deny its existence as refuse to acknowledge it (OK, there were denials, but as hundreds, if not thousands, of people have worked at Area 51 over the years its existence was never going to remain completely secret). With the advent of things like Google Earth they finally marked it on the map.

Personally, I think anything secret at Area 51 is long gone - I think it's now a decoy and the real Super Secret Stuff goes on elsewhere.

Were there ever really UFO's there? I have no idea. Personally I doubt we have ever been visited by extraterrestrials though if proof shows up I'd certainly be interested.

I'm quite aware that Area 51 is a real place, it's just that as soon as I saw that bizarre and totally irrelevant tangent pop up on the screen, it was hard to take anything Paradox was saying seriously. Well, on top of all the other stuff.

We're not "unhinged", we just think you're talking out of your ass. Real Nazis were much more organized and efficient at getting things done, for one thing. For another, if you really understood your history you'd realize that American politicians are nowhere near that level of evil. Given that much of my family in the 1940's was systematically slaughtered by real Nazis, it pisses me off that people casually sling the term around as an insult.

THIS is important. This is why I railed against the cheap comparisons. When we start to see the equivalent of Brown Shirts marching around the streets beating people, taking names and then Much Worse, when the next incarnation of real Nazis starts rounding people up, then we can start with the comparisons.

Paradox and his kind may think it's clever, or may really think they are among the group Who Sees What's Coming. To me, it's just so very tired, it's lazy and it's not very interesting anymore.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Any president who did what Bush did deserves vitriol. If there is something Obama has done that is as bad as Bush, you would be crowing about it to the end of the earth. But there isn't. There's only crowing about Obama because he's not a member of your tribe- he's scary and foreign, and therefore an enemy. When Bush was president, the militia nuts, the anarchocapitalists, and the corporate dupes were all silent.

That's not entirely true - there were plenty of Paultards and the like screeching their damn fool heads off about how Bush powered the Federal Reserve by converting the spinning bodies of the Founding Fathers into generators. Of course, by that point he was obviously more harm than good for them, he'd hurt their tribe's chances of success and public image, and on top of that, excommunicating him from the tribe would also give them a chance to appear non-tribal in their principles.

[Loner]

Remarks like this will help ease the worries of the more sane gun people.
The nutjobs will see it as evidence of duplicity.

It wouldn't matter to the conspiracy whackos if Obama suddenly pushed for repeals of the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA because they'd see it as proof that liberals have a newly developed personal forcefield that protects them from automatic weapons fire.

That said, a part of me says 'fuck you, asshole' to Paul Helmke and the rest of the twats at the Brady Campaign.

Screw that, I need the demand to die down enough, so I can get my hands on copious amounts of 5.56mm.

[Simon_Jester]

THIS is important. This is why I railed against the cheap comparisons. When we start to see the equivalent of Brown Shirts marching around the streets beating people, taking names and then Much Worse, when the next incarnation of real Nazis starts rounding people up, then we can start with the comparisons.

Nitpick:
I think we can start when they're beating people and taking names, before the rounding up. When they start rounding people up, it's probably too late to stop them without causing massive damage. So if your Nazi-detectors don't ring until that level of oppression is reached, they're undersensitive.

By contrast, if today's Democratic Party is setting off your Nazi-detectors, it's time to pull the battery because you're going to get so many false alarms that a real alarm will be the next incarnation of the boy who cried "wolf!". So I do agree that that is very stupid.

[Jeremy]

If we don't stop childish recourse in politics we are doomed to experience all that this country was founded to avoid--like the Civil War.

Actually politics have always been shit in this country (and others)

<snip>

The problem is when the two sides get to a point where compomise is impossible- in the case of the civil war the South refused to give up power and when a threat to that came, they broke away.

I don't see harm in striving towards an idea of betterment--a country without fratricide. I think that was something George Washington tried to express.

Where were you insurrecting, wailing, and complaining under Bush?

Writing my Congressman; not wanting to die by or kill other Americans.