Perhaps I should repeat myself, Stas Bush. In April of 2001 when American pilots were captured after landing on Chinese territory, there were subject to summary torture.
Nobody gives a shit about the Geneva Convention - least of all Iraq. If you honestly think the world gives a fuck about the victims of tortue outside some lip service on the United Nations, you're wrong.
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The geneva convention says:Nathan F wrote: But, it is NOT against the convention to show people surrendering, as the western media has done. Plus, those are private news outlets, not government sponsored television.
They [protected persons] shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity.
The geneva convention defines protected person as:
Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.
Iraqi soldiers in handcuffs sitting next to a coalition APC is a protected person, and pictures of said person should not be broadcast on CNN.
Just out of curiosity, but whatever happened to "two wrongs don't make a right"? Any time people bring up Iraq violating the Geneva Convention, thye come back with "well hte US has done it too!". And since when did "showing a few prisoners on TV in good condition" equate to murdering prisoners, and tortureing them for the sake of getting televised confessions?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
I think that still applies. Its not OK for the U.S. to do it a little just because the Iraqis are doing it even worse.RogueIce wrote: Just out of curiosity, but whatever happened to "two wrongs don't make a right"? Any time people bring up Iraq violating the Geneva Convention, thye come back with "well hte US has done it too!".
Who said the two were equal? Its still against the Geneva convention regardless of their condition. Thankfully, I haven't seen too many captured Iraqi pictures on TV lately, so hopefully the military censors have smartened-up. But that could be because I haven't been watching much of it lately also, I don't know.And since when did "showing a few prisoners on TV in good condition" equate to murdering prisoners, and tortureing them for the sake of getting televised confessions?
In the Los Angeles Times today, a Vietnam Vet said he'd be PLEASED to be put on TV by the enemy if he were a POW. That way, he wouldn't end up in an unmarked grave, and his family never knowing what happened to him. The enemy would be accountable for his death if it occured after he was shown on TV alive and well.Zoink wrote: Who said the two were equal? Its still against the Geneva convention regardless of their condition. Thankfully, I haven't seen too many captured Iraqi pictures on TV lately, so hopefully the military censors have smartened-up. But that could be because I haven't been watching much of it lately also, I don't know.
The fact that the Iraqis have allowed the Red Cross to visit the POWs is a good sign for them.
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Nathan F
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Uhm, they have shown videos of Iraqi troops surrendering, while the Iraqis have shown prisoners who have obviously been beaten to a pulp and then shoved in front of a TV for propaganada. No difference whatsoever...Stas Bush wrote:Nathan FOh yes. Showing a man under a gun is fine. Showing a man in the room is not. What?Uhm, showing POWs during interrogation and for propaganda reasons is against the Geneva convention.
But, it is NOT against the convention to show people surrendering, as the western media has done. Plus, those are private news outlets, not government sponsored television.
And after the stunts those Iraqis pulled about pretending surrender then opening fire, what do you expect them to do? Put their guns down and welcome the Iraqis with open arms?
Sincerely man, get your head out of your anus.Unless they are idiots, they will follow.And you are mistaken if you believe the Iraqis to follow the Geneva convention.
Do you REALLY think that the Iraqis give half a crap about the Geneva Convention?
Yeah...if anything, it keeps our guys honest if they're shown on TV.Lord Poe wrote:In the Los Angeles Times today, a Vietnam Vet said he'd be PLEASED to be put on TV by the enemy if he were a POW. That way, he wouldn't end up in an unmarked grave, and his family never knowing what happened to him. The enemy would be accountable for his death if it occured after he was shown on TV alive and well.
The fact that the Iraqis have allowed the Red Cross to visit the POWs is a good sign for them.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Just saw that Rumsfeld accuses Syria of smuggling NVGs etc to Iraq. So much for Russia then.
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Did he say it was Syria and not Russia, or did he just say that Syria was doing it? From what you've given me, you can easily take it to mean BOTH countries have given the Iraqis NVGs.Vympel wrote:Just saw that Rumsfeld accuses Syria of smuggling NVGs etc to Iraq. So much for Russia then.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Given that he could've chastised Russia at the same time, but did not (and we haven't heard a peep about that since) and related to the speculation that Syria was the culprit, it makes sense.RogueIce wrote:Did he say it was Syria and not Russia, or did he just say that Syria was doing it? From what you've given me, you can easily take it to mean BOTH countries have given the Iraqis NVGs.Vympel wrote:Just saw that Rumsfeld accuses Syria of smuggling NVGs etc to Iraq. So much for Russia then.
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Didn't we have the whole "Russin gov looking into it" thing? Seems more like to me not wanting to drudge up old news when there's nothing overly new to report, and instead reporting something that IS new.Vympel wrote:Given that he could've chastised Russia at the same time, but did not (and we haven't heard a peep about that since) and related to the speculation that Syria was the culprit, it makes sense.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
The Russian government denied that there was any evidence to support the accusations- they pointed to Ukraine (thought to have illegally provided radars to Iraq) and Syria instead, IIRC.RogueIce wrote: Didn't we have the whole "Russin gov looking into it" thing? Seems more like to me not wanting to drudge up old news when there's nothing overly new to report, and instead reporting something that IS new.
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If true, that would explain why we're not focusing on Russia.Vympel wrote:The Russian government denied that there was any evidence to support the accusations- they pointed to Ukraine (thought to have illegally provided radars to Iraq) and Syria instead, IIRC.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Considering that even the US didn't accuse the Russian government directly, and initially directed it's accusations at two Russian companies, and that there is no political advantage to be gained from selling small fry military items that would have no outcome on the war (but plenty of profit for the two companies, if they did it, which is also denied) I'd say your suspicions are unfounded.Axis Kast wrote:I have my suspicions (of Russia).
It certainly wouldn't be below Vladimir Putin or his government.
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That's the theory, however in practice it may be different- look at it this way- US defense contractors supplied sensitive secrets to China without government oversight- doesn't mean that the government did it.Axis Kast wrote:It's always a matter of opinion.
And the Russian government has always got to green-light arms sales. Putin knew what was going on, even if he didn't orchestrate it personally.
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K. A. Pital
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Well, I think I can advise that to you.Sincerely man, get your head out of your anus.
Do you REALLY think that the Iraqis give half a crap about the Geneva Convention?
I wonder, a country attacked by overwhelming forces, which can gain more support from the world as soon as Iraq will violate any war rule or use WMD, is so foolish to encourage it's destruction?
Of course they give some CRAP about the Geneva. Otherwise they will no longer have any support from the world. It's obvious to any fool. I don't think Hussein is a fool. He may be evil, but not IDIOTIC.
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Axis Kast
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Saddam Hussein does not follow the Geneva Convention. This is fact according to Coalition airmen (especially Americans) in his custody during the Gulf War of 1991.
As for Russia? I'm still wary. Putin probably knew what was going on but failed to act. As the White House suggested, it might have been an intentional sign of "displeasure."
As for Russia? I'm still wary. Putin probably knew what was going on but failed to act. As the White House suggested, it might have been an intentional sign of "displeasure."
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Nathan F
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So, I guess that those POWs who were beaten within an inch of their life back in the first Gulf War would tell me that Saddam follows the Geneva Convention to a tee.Stas Bush wrote:Well, I think I can advise that to you.Sincerely man, get your head out of your anus.
Do you REALLY think that the Iraqis give half a crap about the Geneva Convention?
I wonder, a country attacked by overwhelming forces, which can gain more support from the world as soon as Iraq will violate any war rule or use WMD, is so foolish to encourage it's destruction?
Of course they give some CRAP about the Geneva. Otherwise they will no longer have any support from the world. It's obvious to any fool. I don't think Hussein is a fool. He may be evil, but not IDIOTIC.
Dude, seriously, the man has gassed his own PEOPLE, has built torture chambers for the hell of it, shoots POWs, and rules by fear. How can you sit there and tell me that he actually cares about the Geneva Convention?