Duterte, Citing Hitler, Says He Wants to Kill 3 Million Addicts in Philippines

[Shroom Man 777]

Four thousand dead.

People here are just as deluded. But I think a lot are legitimately realizing in their minds and in their guts that this stinks but doubling down out of fear and out of ego and the "sunk cost fallacy" occurs.

[Zinegata]

To be fair, I'm kinda doubtful that the majority of killings are directly attributable to Duterte. His "Death Squads" operate only in the southern islands and it's logistically unlikely that they managed to spread nationwide so quickly.

Much more likely is that the rhetoric is encouraging vigilante extra-judicial killings, or actual criminals are taking advantage of the rhetoric to do false flag operations where they commit petty murders but try to cover it up by pretending it's drug/Duterte-related. That said, it's a bad reflection of how the Filipinos are finding it more and more acceptable to take the law into their own hands given the snail's pace of the actual justice system.

[Shroom Man 777]

Or it could be the tacit enabling of the police to go do their own thang. He doesn't have to pour over the list and go "see it's this guy! I want him to fall ass-first with gunshot wounds stabbing him in the dick! then her! if her name is Martha then make HER breast bleed too! and make sure one of their hands fall over the other's crotch! FLY MY PRETTIES FFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY!!!!"

Look at how the US' state brutalities are systematic - even from the DOJ's own investigations. How much more when the person on top and the cliques of verdugos in the state security apparatus, chief of police who go on about suspending the writ of habeas corpus and military generals who are proteges of activist-disappearing student-snatching officers, are predisposed to their wetworks? Plus wannabe tough guy mayors doing copycat acts? Especially now that they know such craziness can allow people to win the presidency?

I get that the criminal elements are also scrambling to fix shit but the rapid rise of the killings - the super-similar methods - the systematicness, THOUSANDS killed... I don't think they could pull this off so well and without being caught. Who's not-catching them? Amidst a drug war? Fuck it, Al Pacino couldn't pull it off with nostrils full of white and an M-16 with an underbarrel grenade launcher.

Plus the social phenomenon of this being ignored, condoned or even celebrated by the people, while criticism is treated as treason, and while institutions just go "eeeh mebbe mebbe nawt."

[Zinegata]

Or it could be the tacit enabling of the police to go do their own thang.

See the bit about vigilantes doing the killing.

I don't think they could pull this off so well and without being caught. Who's not-catching them?

Here's the thing: We had never been good at catching criminals. Never. The justice system was broken even before Duterte.

It's an open secret for instance that most people in PH prison aren't really guilty of the crimes that they were accused of. If a crime happens - even before Duterte - they often just pick a poor guy off the streets and force him to confess.

And even if the real perpetrators are caught there's no guarantee that they will ever be sentenced - take for instance the Maguindanao Massacre where dozens of journalists were killed and yet nobody has still been declared guilty.

That why while I don't support and am very concerned about Extra-judicial killings... I must say I understand where the 90%+ approval rating is coming from. As far as the poorer classes are concerned there is in fact a certain hypocrisy with the position of opposing extra-judicial killings while at the same time failing to acknowledge and basically do nothing about the broken justice system. People are turning to "The Punisher" precisely because they've seen the justice remain broken for decades now and nobody has even tried to fix it.

[Shroom Man 777]

I get that they're shitty at catching criminals (except Jaguar... and the cops who offed him are now under investigation or suspension?) but they do catch some... I mean why else would Bilibid be such a scandal if those weren't criminals? I get that the justice system is flawed and broken and slow and frustrating - after all, sometimes the judges enable the burial of a known despot and even the public servant of the highest office ends up dismissing victims by saying that a dictatorship's crimes are unproven. Who wouldn't be frustrated with such a shitshow run by such shitheads.

So yes I understand the twisted rationale behind the support for the killings.

And actual cops were caught as tandem killers in one city.

[Zinegata]

I get that they're shitty at catching criminals (except Jaguar... and the cops who offed him are now under investigation or suspension?) but they do catch some...

But not enough, which is the point; and it does nothing about the enormous backlog of innocent people who were sent to prison for the "crime" of being too poor to resist an enforced confession. Moreover...

I mean why else would Bilibid be such a scandal if those weren't criminals?

It's worth remembering that scandal - wherein drug lords lived like kings inside the prison - basically happened right under the noses of the Justice Secretary, if she hadn't outright colluded. There is a widespread impression - which I must admit isn't really unfair - that even real criminals in PH prison are just there because the jailors hadn't been bribed enough to give them a free reign. It's just a further reflection of a system that doesn't work.

Note also that there has been a concerted drive by the police to have drug-users "surrender" and make themselves known - it's something that's typically seen as pro-Duterte propaganda in the richer communities but among the poorer folks "Punish the drug pusher, not the user" in fact holds some very real appeal. There is a very real gulf in opinion between the Filipino "Middle/Thinking Class" and the "masses" with regards to Duterte and his drug campaign.

I get that the justice system is flawed and broken and slow and frustrating - after all, sometimes the judges enable the burial of a known despot and even the public servant of the highest office ends up dismissing victims by saying that a dictatorship's crimes are unproven. Who wouldn't be frustrated with such a shitshow run by such shitheads.

Well, to be fair, the Supreme Court was interpreting the law. And it's not as though the SC was filled with Marcos loyalists. It was a failure of legislation, rather than that of the judiciary.

[Shroom Man 777]

Surrenderees still end up getting killed by the mysterious assassins.

And bullshit on the it wasn't a failure of the judiciary - cronyism contaminates it too.

I don't dispute the law and order inadequacy of the country. But even then crime was on the decrease before this administration and the alarmist "ONE BINIMINILLION DRAG LORDS BY THE GRIMDRAKSTRAK FUTURE OF 2019 WITH REPLICANTS DECKARDS!" or whatever is total bullshit and has quickly been shown to be shallow, a claim diminishing like Cayetano's hairline.

[Zinegata]

And bullshit on the it wasn't a failure of the judiciary - cronyism contaminates it too.

If this was truly then they should have ruled against Marcos - as most of the appointees at the moment are linked to the rival the Aquino camp; especially after Aquino broke the power of the Arroyo SC with the impeachment of the Chief Justice early in his term. If they were being cronyist then they should have voted against Marcos.

I don't dispute the law and order inadequacy of the country. But even then crime was on the decrease before this administration and the alarmist "ONE BINIMINILLION DRAG LORDS BY THE GRIMDRAKSTRAK FUTURE OF 2019 WITH REPLICANTS DECKARDS!" or whatever is total bullshit and has quickly been shown to be shallow, a claim diminishing like Cayetano's hairline.

Here's the thing: Would the public - especially the poor - buy the "drug lord" line if there was truly no drug problem in the country? Or is there a real drug problem - just like a largely ignored judiciary problem - and the people are responding to the perception of someone finally acting on it?

Duterte, in many ways, is a reflection of the country's problems. It's not just a black-and-white or mindless propaganda situation. People really liked the Aquinos and saw real improvements in many ways, but there were definitely things that were not addressed and it's basically what made his designated successor (Roxas) unelectable and Duterte the landslide victor.

[Shroom Man 777]

And bullshit on the it wasn't a failure of the judiciary - cronyism contaminates it too.

If this was truly then they should have ruled against Marcos - as most of the appointees at the moment are linked to the rival the Aquino camp; especially after Aquino broke the power of the Arroyo SC with the impeachment of the Chief Justice early in his term. If they were being cronyist then they should have voted against Marcos.

Most of those justices were appointed before Aquino. The new Aquino-appointed Chief Justice did rule against the allowing-of-the-burial.

Here's the thing: Would the public - especially the poor - buy the "drug lord" line if there was truly no drug problem in the country? Or is there a real drug problem - just like a largely ignored judiciary problem - and the people are responding to the perception of someone finally acting on it?

Where are the numbers? No one is denying the existence of cartels and criminals but the severity and the degree are also something to be considered. That's the difference between approaching it soberly or approaching it from fearmongering and asspulled "facts." Come on, we've seen this elsewhere, tough macho men using "war on crime" and "war on drugs" to justify their crap. The US is a big example of this. And now we're miming them.

Duterte, in many ways, is a reflection of the country's problems. It's not just a black-and-white or mindless propaganda situation. People really liked the Aquinos and saw real improvements in many ways, but there were definitely things that were not addressed and it's basically what made his designated successor (Roxas) unelectable and Duterte the landslide victor.

Elsewhere - maybe not in this thread - I did state that there were legitimate grievances, mostly from the neglect of the regions of the country under-prioritized historically - that were, in my opinion, misdirected, manipulated and exploited by people, taking us to this point.

[Flagg]

To be fair, I'm kinda doubtful that the majority of killings are directly attributable to Duterte. His "Death Squads" operate only in the southern islands and it's logistically unlikely that they managed to spread nationwide so quickly.

Much more likely is that the rhetoric is encouraging vigilante extra-judicial killings, or actual criminals are taking advantage of the rhetoric to do false flag operations where they commit petty murders but try to cover it up by pretending it's drug/Duterte-related. That said, it's a bad reflection of how the Filipinos are finding it more and more acceptable to take the law into their own hands given the snail's pace of the actual justice system.

Yeah, the German "vigilantes" were responsible for the attacks on Jews. Hitler, the SA, and SS had nothing to do with it!

Why, in every thread where law enforcement and vigilantes start murdering people that dipshits consider "inferior" somehow, some shitbird comes along to defend them play Devils Advocate?

[Zinegata]

Where are the numbers? No one is denying the existence of cartels and criminals but the severity and the degree are also something to be considered. That's the difference between approaching it soberly or approaching it from fearmongering and asspulled "facts." Come on, we've seen this elsewhere, tough macho men using "war on crime" and "war on drugs" to justify their crap. The US is a big example of this. And now we're miming them.

Point isn't the numbers. Point is there is a perception of a drug problem. I work for PLDT and interact on a regular basis with people stationed all over the country, and most of them surprisingly could tell at least one drug-related "issue" in their respective community.

The total numbers may not be as big as Duterte makes them out to be - and he's clearly inventing a lot of numbers wholesale. But if almost every community has a drug problem story to share then it's definitely widespread enough to be seen as legitimate.

Elsewhere - maybe not in this thread - I did state that there were legitimate grievances, mostly from the neglect of the regions of the country under-prioritized historically - that were, in my opinion, misdirected, manipulated and exploited by people, taking us to this point.

Yes, but the point I'm making is that these also need to be addressed. That's why I mentioned that there is a certain hypocrisy in the eyes of the "masses" with regards to criticizing extra-judicial killings while ignoring the problems of the judiciary and the drugs.

Having a family member wrongly imprisoned for a crime they didn't commit, or knowing someone in the community messed up on drugs - these are real problems they have in the here and now. If these aren't addressed then the manipulation and exploitation will continue no matter how much people decry the EJKs.

In short, you shouldn't just dismiss the drug or injustice issues as Duterte propaganda. You don't get a 90% approval rating with a complete lie. There's a very tragic and painful grain of truth in his "crusade"; which most of the Middle/Thinking class don't even recognize.

[Zinegata]

To be fair, I'm kinda doubtful that the majority of killings are directly attributable to Duterte. His "Death Squads" operate only in the southern islands and it's logistically unlikely that they managed to spread nationwide so quickly.

Much more likely is that the rhetoric is encouraging vigilante extra-judicial killings, or actual criminals are taking advantage of the rhetoric to do false flag operations where they commit petty murders but try to cover it up by pretending it's drug/Duterte-related. That said, it's a bad reflection of how the Filipinos are finding it more and more acceptable to take the law into their own hands given the snail's pace of the actual justice system.

Yeah, the German "vigilantes" were responsible for the attacks on Jews. Hitler, the SA, and SS had nothing to do with it!

Why, in every thread where law enforcement and vigilantes start murdering people that dipshits consider "inferior" somehow, some shitbird comes along to defend them play Devils Advocate?

It's not an argument that says "Hitler isn't bad". It's an argument saying "the Germans themselves are also being bad". It's very convenient and easy to just blame a small sub-section of the population rather than face the ugly reality that the whole country is at fault and there are deeper problems to be addressed.

[Flagg]

To be fair, I'm kinda doubtful that the majority of killings are directly attributable to Duterte. His "Death Squads" operate only in the southern islands and it's logistically unlikely that they managed to spread nationwide so quickly.

Much more likely is that the rhetoric is encouraging vigilante extra-judicial killings, or actual criminals are taking advantage of the rhetoric to do false flag operations where they commit petty murders but try to cover it up by pretending it's drug/Duterte-related. That said, it's a bad reflection of how the Filipinos are finding it more and more acceptable to take the law into their own hands given the snail's pace of the actual justice system.

Yeah, the German "vigilantes" were responsible for the attacks on Jews. Hitler, the SA, and SS had nothing to do with it!

Why, in every thread where law enforcement and vigilantes start murdering people that dipshits consider "inferior" somehow, some shitbird comes along to defend them play Devils Advocate?

It's not an argument that says "Hitler isn't bad". It's an argument saying "the Germans themselves are also being bad". It's very convenient and easy to just blame a small sub-section of the population rather than face the ugly reality that the whole country is at fault and there are deeper problems to be addressed.

Yeah, except this shit didn't start until Filipino Hitler took charge. Just as there were a tons of Anti-Semites in Germany who would be arrested for attacking Jews got a free pass (and encouragement) to beat the hell out of any Jew they saw, burn down the Synagogues and destroy and loot Jewish businesses, the anti-drug assholes in the Philippines didn't murder every addict they saw with police help until Duterte got into office and encouraged mob and police violence to massacre drug users.

[Zinegata]

Yeah, except this shit didn't start until Filipino Hitler took charge.

Actually, extra-judicial killings were already very common even before Duterte got elected. Even under the Aquino administration - which did the most to curb it - the Philippines remained the 2nd most dangerous country for journalists and the killings were mostly political or crime related. The Maguindanao Massacre for instance involved the murder of dozens of journalist which to this day has still not been resolved.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/v1/02/01 ... ournalists

People - especially the Middle/"Thinking" class - just didn't pay very much attention to these killings.

Second - and this is a salient point you seem to have missed - Duterte doesn't even have an SS or Secret Police yet. He didn't mass-hire any goons that were specifically dedicated to his cause which are now all over the country. Most of his goons have in fact remained in his power base city in Davao.

Hitler by contrast only got 30%-ish support when he took power - this is why he needed to build up his paramilitary forces before he could really take over (his attempt before that ended with the embarrassing Beer Putsch failure). Duterte by contrast has 90% support and reports of extra-judicial killings began even before he took office.

Did Duterte's rhetoric trigger at least some of the extra-judicial killings? Certainly. But you don't end up with a 90% approval rating if the country wasn't already close to agreeing with him in the first place.

That's why blaming it all on Filipino Hitler is dangerous. The extrajudicial killings won't stop just because he's gone (which may happen soon anyway). The reality instead is that it's a much deeper and systemic problem that afflicts the entire country itself. You can blame a dictator if his popularity is low and he used actual force to subvert the process. You need to put a lot more blame on the country if nine in ten are supporting a thuggish president who isn't even using much force to coerce them; and the "people" themselves are either actively or passively supporting the extrajudicial killings.

[Shroom Man 777]

Look. As someone pissed at the Aquino admin for the Lumad killings, the disparities of regional development, for Yolanda, for Mar Roxas' dumb shittery, for PDAF, as someone who's first rally was the porkchop barrel one, as someone who decided not to vote Noynoid in 2010 due to Hacienda fucking Luisita, as someone forever pissed at the ABS-CBNification of regionalistic culture where being not-Catholic and not-Tagalog makes one not "Filipino" enough, at someone pissed that fucking blackface is used in multiple teleserieses to depict provinciano girls who desire to be turned whiter-skinned to marry the affluent fuckface romantic interest, as someone who's repeatedly said Noynoid should crawl back into his mother's cunt to die, as someone who followed and griped about the Chief Justice's impeachment (but sure yes he was corrupt as fuck), as someone who laughs at the fake quote of Kris Aquino saying "when my mother died SHE STOPPED BREATHING," as a supporter of federalism, as a person who wants to slap in the face all those "ALL OUT WAR IN THE SOUTH AGAINST ZE MUSLIM TERRORIZER-TRAITORS BETRAITORING OUR COUNTRY" wannabe commando macho tough guys, as a supporter of BBL, as someone who recognizes the causes of various groups in the country disputing the government because of decades of suppression and how they even disappear freaking college students, where this state security apparatus redbaits and Red Scares like as if it was the McCarthy-era and being someone in the woods wearing a loincloth will probably make one targeted as a communist insurgent infiltrating territories that ought to be freedomized for the glorious mining companies, as an objector to how US-faciliated counterinsurgency operations enable this, and a whole fucking lot more - as someone who really considered voting for Duterte before his campaign revealed him to be a total fuckface and when the facts of his atrocities in Davao became something un-ignorable (someone from Davao convinced me of this!), etc. etc. yes, I totally get the need to address the legitimate grievances of the parts of the country that happen to be Not-Manila, problems that have existed for decades, probably centuries ago when the Spaniards decided to designate which parts of the country to hand to whichever collaborating feudal families they interbred with.

[Shroom Man 777]

Am I missing anything in my screed? I'm not sure...

I also get that the Liberal Party and Noynoid and Mar and the other limp detached technocrats may have tried to address this and may have had the best intentions maybe... but nonetheless the perception of their utter neglect and hypocrisy poisoned things.

[Thanas]

Thanas if Merkel gets replaced by some fuckface I don't know how I'll feel and shit.

Eh, not much to fear her so far. Her most serious opponent so far is Martin Schulz, who is not a bad politician and currently head of the European Parliament. So even if Merkel will lose the election her replacement will not be some kind of rightwing psycho.

[Flagg]

Yeah, except this shit didn't start until Filipino Hitler took charge.

Actually, extra-judicial killings were already very common even before Duterte got elected. Even under the Aquino administration - which did the most to curb it - the Philippines remained the 2nd most dangerous country for journalists and the killings were mostly political or crime related. The Maguindanao Massacre for instance involved the murder of dozens of journalist which to this day has still not been resolved.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/v1/02/01 ... ournalists

People - especially the Middle/"Thinking" class - just didn't pay very much attention to these killings.

Second - and this is a salient point you seem to have missed - Duterte doesn't even have an SS or Secret Police yet. He didn't mass-hire any goons that were specifically dedicated to his cause which are now all over the country. Most of his goons have in fact remained in his power base city in Davao.

Hitler by contrast only got 30%-ish support when he took power - this is why he needed to build up his paramilitary forces before he could really take over (his attempt before that ended with the embarrassing Beer Putsch failure). Duterte by contrast has 90% support and reports of extra-judicial killings began even before he took office.

Did Duterte's rhetoric trigger at least some of the extra-judicial killings? Certainly. But you don't end up with a 90% approval rating if the country wasn't already close to agreeing with him in the first place.

That's why blaming it all on Filipino Hitler is dangerous. The extrajudicial killings won't stop just because he's gone (which may happen soon anyway). The reality instead is that it's a much deeper and systemic problem that afflicts the entire country itself. You can blame a dictator if his popularity is low and he used actual force to subvert the process. You need to put a lot more blame on the country if nine in ten are supporting a thuggish president who isn't even using much force to coerce them; and the "people" themselves are either actively or passively supporting the extrajudicial killings.

There were pogroms against Jews in Germany and other Central European countries for centuries without the Nazi's, but they became encouraged once Hitler came to power. If you have a leader that encourages these actions then they will surge in frequency. If you have a leader who makes it clear that civilians (and police, who have joined the "fun") taking the law into their own hands will not be tolerated, you get less murders and more "vigilantes" in prison where they, and Duterte, belong.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Thanas if Merkel gets replaced by some fuckface I don't know how I'll feel and shit.

Eh, not much to fear her so far. Her most serious opponent so far is Martin Schulz, who is not a bad politician and currently head of the European Parliament. So even if Merkel will lose the election her replacement will not be some kind of rightwing psycho.

On the other hand, if she wants to head off the serious possibility of a Le Pen presidency next door, she'd have to loosen the grip of the eurozone on France, which would in turn put her in hot water with Schäuble & Co. She's only safe if we ignore the fact that she's one of the few people in a position to actually do something to avert a repeat of Trump en français, but in so doing she'd be leading with her chin against AfD and the right in her own party, which she's already done once.

[Zinegata]

There were pogroms against Jews in Germany and other Central European countries for centuries without the Nazi's, but they became encouraged once Hitler came to power. If you have a leader that encourages these actions then they will surge in frequency. If you have a leader who makes it clear that civilians (and police, who have joined the "fun") taking the law into their own hands will not be tolerated, you get less murders and more "vigilantes" in prison where they, and Duterte, belong.

Again, nobody's denying that Duterte is part of the problem Flagg. Note the bit where I said his rhetoric certainly incited at least some of the violence.

The point is that our local equivalent of the pogroms were already widespread even before Duterte. Shroom and most of the Filipino "Middle Class" just didn't notice. That's why they're baffled by the 90% Duterte approval rating while I'm very much in the camp that sees him as merely a symptom of the country's overall problems.

Before Duterte, extra-judicial killings were already very widespread. The military regularly killed suspected communists without trial. The police regularly killed suspected criminals or those who refused to give protection money. Crime syndicates "salvaged" people who crossed them. Politicians would have their rivals murdered. Journalists are basically target practice if they step outside of the major cities unless they were nationally famous. All this happened pretty much with the Middle Class not noticing.

For those with a more cynical outlook, the difference now is that all the murderers nowadays just leaves a placard declaring the victim to be a "Drug Lord" regardless of the actual reason behind the killings. Even if Duterte is gone, the killings will continue and in the same or even worse scale - you just won't have one convenient "Filipino Hitler" to pin everything on.

[Shroom Man 777]

Shroom and most of the Filipino "Middle Class" just didn't notice.

Did you read my fucking post?

You don't know what I did or did not notice or what I did or did not care about before the latest presidential administration and the campaign period leading to it.

[Zinegata]

Did you read my fucking post?

You don't know what I did or did not notice or what I did or did not care about before the latest presidential administration and the campaign period leading to it.

Well your general reaction to the reality that the Philippine Justice system being pretty broken even before Duterte seems to be denial, coupled with lazily blaming everything on Filipino Hitler. Which is exactly why you and Flagg just decry the foolishness of the masses and don't examine why they are giving Duterte 90% approval ratings.

Like I've been saying - There's real and active support for the extrajudicial killings that is widespread among the "masses". The killings aren't even making them feel scared.

Talk to some of them sometime, seriously - even if it's just a conversation with a taxi driver (to note - every one I talked to for the past six months supported Duterte). It's not just delusional doubling down on a bad election choice. They are not afraid and they are most definitely not supporting Duterte out of fear. They see it as a legitimate settling of the scores - which again is an outgrowth of the failure to reform the justice system for the past 30-odd years.

[Shroom Man 777]

When did I deny blame on other parties? When did I not say that the justice system was broken before Duterte? My statements were that he's worsening things, it never said things were never bad beforehand or dissatisfactory.

My previous post summed up my own grievances that existed years before this administration and the latest election season. So I take huge exception to what you said. Because of reasons, I think I know where you seem to be seeing this from (and if you get my drift, you would know why I would know why you'd make such assumptions of me).

In this thread sure I only post about Duterte's doings because that's the subject matter of the thread, what he's doing and how it shouldn't be underappreciated. Elsewhere in other conversations not on this board I actually make sure to add perhaps paragraphs just trying to describe how it came to this and the decades of causes and effects that made people go for this - but of course they're not in this thread.

I know the reasons that they see as legitimate that drove their choices seeing as I did consider making the same choice.

My own exasperation is because - if you get my drift - this is close to home for me and the misuse of the legitimate grievances makes me all the more pissed.

That is also why I consider their propaganda's misuse of pseudo-ethnic and pseudo-cultural issues as deflections and distortions to be extremely insulting. In a way, because of its closeness, that gives it a different kind of sting than how the regionalization rhetoric was used all these years by people in privileged positions to punch downwards at *certain large sectors of the country*.

But that doesn't deny the wrongness of the perception manipulation - as the same perception manipulation has been historically used in our country to redbait and Red Scare marginalized group and justify state security and paramilitary abuses towards them, as well as to polarize the territorial disputes and autonomy issues of in Mindanao. (Of course, it's "these traitors and terrorists and savages!" until historical context becomes convenient for attempts at landgrabbing because SULTANATE TERRITORIES OF THE PAST!)

[Shroom Man 777]

In the past here in N&P I've previously been bitching about the shitshow our country and people are stuck in.

Honestly to me this is how it feels like when someone who objects to current abuses and who's also previously vehemently objected to previous administration abuses gets called an Aquino shill by the trolls.

[Flagg]

There were pogroms against Jews in Germany and other Central European countries for centuries without the Nazi's, but they became encouraged once Hitler came to power. If you have a leader that encourages these actions then they will surge in frequency. If you have a leader who makes it clear that civilians (and police, who have joined the "fun") taking the law into their own hands will not be tolerated, you get less murders and more "vigilantes" in prison where they, and Duterte, belong.

Again, nobody's denying that Duterte is part of the problem Flagg. Note the bit where I said his rhetoric certainly incited at least some of the violence.

The point is that our local equivalent of the pogroms were already widespread even before Duterte. Shroom and most of the Filipino "Middle Class" just didn't notice. That's why they're baffled by the 90% Duterte approval rating while I'm very much in the camp that sees him as merely a symptom of the country's overall problems.

Before Duterte, extra-judicial killings were already very widespread. The military regularly killed suspected communists without trial. The police regularly killed suspected criminals or those who refused to give protection money. Crime syndicates "salvaged" people who crossed them. Politicians would have their rivals murdered. Journalists are basically target practice if they step outside of the major cities unless they were nationally famous. All this happened pretty much with the Middle Class not noticing.

For those with a more cynical outlook, the difference now is that all the murderers nowadays just leaves a placard declaring the victim to be a "Drug Lord" regardless of the actual reason behind the killings. Even if Duterte is gone, the killings will continue and in the same or even worse scale - you just won't have one convenient "Filipino Hitler" to pin everything on.

I see my point either sailed over your fucking thick skull or you're just ignoring it. So I'll make it much simpler so that a mental midget like you can understand: Bad things that happen before a totalitarian who encourages and actively steps up and legitimizes those bad things (in this case lynchings by the populous and summary executions by the police of suspected and actual drug addicts) in no way shape or form excuses the orders of said totalitarian. And moreover, this thread is specifically about Duterte's policies.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, fuck yourself.