georgia plans white only prom

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 10:54pm

Durran Korr wrote:Hmm, I don't know if I would suspend them (legal hurdles), but I would call them into my office and give them the verbal lashing of their life.

What legal hurdles? You can suspend a student for excessive use of harsh language but you can't suspend him for publicly organizing white-segregationist events amongst the school body? In Canada, the people doing this would be CHARGED with hate crimes.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-05-03 10:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:Did you even read the article? They ARE holding a dance. The problem is that a lot of white students want to hold a separate, whites-only dance, so they went ahead and organized one.

Not completley, no. But, why drag this into 5 pages? Who cares if the white kids want to hold their own dance OFF of school property?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 10:56pm

You're not answering the question. What possible basis for a lawsuit against the school would occur from a white person and a black person dating?

Nothing justifiable. That doesn't stop the racists from finding a way to sue. It's happened. There have been cases where interacial dating at proms has sparked lawsuits in a number of ways.

If I were the principal, every student involved with the racist dance would be suspended or expelled.

Problem is the principal has no legal right at all to do that.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-03 10:57pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Hmm, I don't know if I would suspend them (legal hurdles), but I would call them into my office and give them the verbal lashing of their life.
What legal hurdles? You can suspend a student for excessive use of harsh language but you can't suspend him for publicly organizing white-segregationist events amongst the school body? In Canada, the people doing this would be CHARGED with hate crimes.

It's outside of school, though. The point is, suspending/expelling a kid on this basis in American would open yourself up to lawsuits.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 10:57pm

Darth Wong wrote:What legal hurdles? You can suspend a student for excessive use of harsh language but you can't suspend him for publicly organizing white-segregationist events amongst the school body? In Canada, the people doing this would be CHARGED with hate crimes.

This is America, Mike, not Canada. We don't have those can of hate crimes laws.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 10:59pm

In other words, the people with money get to have their way, because this is America. Is that what you're basically saying?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-05-03 10:59pm

I will say once again, this is in a RURAL COUNTY. I know NONE of you know what RURAL means, especially in the south.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-03 11:00pm

Stormbringer wrote:Problem is the principal has no legal right at all to do that.

If schools have the authority to punish kids for swearing, then I don't see why utilizing school time and property to organize a racist get-together isn't punishable. Free speech does not exist in schools.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-03 11:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:In other words, the people with money get to have their way, because this is America. Is that what you're basically saying?

Actually, a poor white redneck could carry out such a lawsuit as well (contingency fees).

There's a lot of legalistic jargon here. I suppose if the student in question were carrying out the organization of the dance COMPLETELY outside of school, there would be no grounds for suspension/expulsion.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:03pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:I will say once again, this is in a RURAL COUNTY. I know NONE of you know what RURAL means, especially in the south.

I've lived in a small town before. "Rural" means "racist", especially in the south.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 11:04pm

Darth Wong wrote:In other words, the people with money get to have their way, because this is America. Is that what you're basically saying?

Sort of. Basically the school doesn't think it would be worth it to step into a blizzard of lawsuits from both sides. Given how long they can last and how much they cost I can understand the position.

It's reasonable enough considering a dance is a secondary and optional function of a school.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:04pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:In other words, the people with money get to have their way, because this is America. Is that what you're basically saying?
Actually, a poor white redneck could carry out such a lawsuit as well (contingency fees).

Then a black kid could do it too. The problem is that it simply isn't considered all that bad there.

There's a lot of legalistic jargon here. I suppose if the student in question were carrying out the organization of the dance COMPLETELY outside of school, there would be no grounds for suspension/expulsion.

You know that if newspapers are reporting on it, it's obviously not being organized quietly. This is brazen, in your face, and obviously being discussed and organized very publicly by the school's student body. And there's no damned way they're doing it without mentioning the school's name.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-03 11:06pm

"Rural" means "racist", especially in the south.

Not necessarily. In one of the congressional districts in South Georgia, there is a Congressman, Sanford David I believe his name is, who is quite popular with the white farmers who live there.

Fixed it for you Durran ~ Stormbringer

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 11:06pm

Durandal wrote:If schools have the authority to punish kids for swearing, then I don't see why utilizing school time and property to organize a racist get-together isn't punishable. Free speech does not exist in schools.

Actually, it's questionable. As I've said, discriminatory organizations are currently allowed to do just that legally. It's not right morally but it's legal. The laws need to be changed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 11:09pm

Then a black kid could do it too. The problem is that it simply isn't considered all that bad there.

A lawsuits a lawsuit, Mike. Both sides can cost them a lot of money. Why should they spend the money and go to the trouble of lawsuits for a secondary function of the school?

You know that if newspapers are reporting on it, it's obviously not being organized quietly. This is brazen, in your face, and obviously being discussed and organized very publicly by the school's student body. And there's no damned way they're doing it without mentioning the school's name.

Perhaps. But simply saying the school's name doesn't give them jurisdiction over it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:09pm

Durran Korr wrote:
"Rural" means "racist", especially in the south.
Not necessarily. In one of the congressional districts in South Georgia, there is a Congressman, Sanford David I believe his name is, who is quite popular with the white farmers who there.

You don't understand. I've met lots of racists who would be perfectly willing to vote for someone not of their race. But let someone not of their race come calling to DATE THEIR DAUGHTER, and the bigot comes out.

I speak from very personal experience, DK. That cuts to the heart of this dance and date issue.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-05-03 11:10pm

Oh, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the school is not really integrated that well. They have separate class presidents. One white, one black. Tell me, what does that mean?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-03 11:10pm

Free speech does not exist in schools.

Not true.

SAN DIEGO--In accordance with a settlement agreement negotiated by the American Civil Liberties Union of San Diego, a local high school principal has issued a formal written apology to a student he threatened to punish for distributing pamphlets which advised students of their right not to take a standardized test, the ACLU announced today.

"School administrators cannot ban the distribution of student material merely because they disagree with what those materials say," said Dale Manicom, a volunteer attorney with the local ACLU. "Students do not lose their constitutional rights just because they have crossed the threshold of a school building."

Schools can limit the right under certain circumstances, but disagreement with the message, no matter how offensive, isn't one of them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:11pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Then a black kid could do it too. The problem is that it simply isn't considered all that bad there.
A lawsuits a lawsuit, Mike. Both sides can cost them a lot of money. Why should they spend the money and go to the trouble of lawsuits for a secondary function of the school?

Sending a clear message about racism? I suppose that would be considered hopelessly naive, especially when there's not a shred of evidence that they actually want to send that message. For that matter, I haven't seen a shred of evidence that their inaction is due to fear of lawsuits. There have probably been more lawsuits attacking racist institutions than defending them in America.

Perhaps. But simply saying the school's name doesn't give them jurisdiction over it.

Yes it does. If you organize something and claim that it's, say, the official GM magazine and it's not, then GM has the right to shut you down.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:12pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:Oh, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the school is not really integrated that well. They have separate class presidents. One white, one black. Tell me, what does that mean?

It means that they're racists. Seems a fairly straightforward interpretation to me.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 11:13pm

You don't understand. I've met lots of racists who would be perfectly willing to vote for someone not of their race. But let someone not of their race come calling to DATE THEIR DAUGHTER, and the bigot comes out.

A lot of times that is the case. But don't assume that everyone's a racist waiting to get out.

I speak from very personal experience, DK. That cuts to the heart of this dance and date issue.

I get you. It's a shitty thing what those racists are doing but like it or not it's legal. There's damn little anyone can do legally to shut it down. Boycotts and protests are about it and those are being done by some of the students.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:13pm

Glocksman wrote:Schools can limit the right under certain circumstances, but disagreement with the message, no matter how offensive, isn't one of them.

And is the organization of an event which is publicly advertised in association with the school's name one of them?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-05-03 11:15pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Kelly Antilles wrote:Oh, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the school is not really integrated that well. They have separate class presidents. One white, one black. Tell me, what does that mean?
It means that they're racists. Seems a fairly straightforward interpretation to me.

Yes, that community still lives in the 1800's. But not the entire state, nor the entire nation.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 11:18pm

Sending a clear message about racism? I suppose that would be considered hopelessly naive, especially when there's not a shred of evidence that they actually want to send that message.

At the cost of millions of dollars from every thing else the school does simply to win? They might well

For that matter, I haven't seen a shred of evidence that their inaction is due to fear of lawsuits. There have probably been more lawsuits attacking racist institutions than defending them in America.

Given that they said it's for interacial dating issues no doubt lawsuits and protests are certainly a big issue given some of the comments expressing disappointment. At least for this batch of administators.

And of course there is also the fact that until last year both dances were segragated so maybe there were racists on both sides.

Yes it does. If you organize something and claim that it's, say, the official GM magazine and it's not, then GM has the right to shut you down.

That assuming they are claiming official status. Which as far as I can tell they aren't.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-03 11:18pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Kelly Antilles wrote:Oh, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the school is not really integrated that well. They have separate class presidents. One white, one black. Tell me, what does that mean?
It means that they're racists. Seems a fairly straightforward interpretation to me.
Yes, that community still lives in the 1800's. But not the entire state, nor the entire nation.

Well, of course not the entire nation, and I'm sure there are more progressive places in Georgia as well. But small towns in the deep south?