The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

[The Romulan Republic]

The death toll is going to be a lot higher than just the people actually killed by COVID-19 directly. The World Food Programme is predicting that 265 million in developing countries could starve:

https://theguardian.com/global-developm ... roportions

The world is facing widespread famine “of biblical proportions” because of the coronavirus pandemic, the chief of the UN’s food relief agency has warned, with a short time to act before hundreds of millions starve.

More than 30 countries in the developing world could experience widespread famine, and in 10 of those countries there are already more than 1 million people on the brink of starvation, said David Beasley, executive director of the World Food Programme.

“We are not talking about people going to bed hungry,” he told the Guardian in an interview. “We are talking about extreme conditions, emergency status – people literally marching to the brink of starvation. If we don’t get food to people, people will die.”

Covid-19 is likely to be sweeping through the developing world but its spread is hard to gauge. What appears to be certain is that the fragile healthcare systems of scores of developing countries will be unable to cope, and the economic disaster following in the wake of the pandemic will lead to huge strain on resources.

“This is truly more than just a pandemic – it is creating a hunger pandemic,” said Beasley. “This is a humanitarian and food catastrophe.”

Beasley took his message to the UN security council on Tuesday, warning world leaders that they must act quickly in a fast-deteriorating situation. He urged them to bring forward about $2bn (£1.6bn) of aid that has been pledged, so it can get to the frontline as quickly as possible.

Another $350m (£285m) is also needed to set up the logistics network to get food and medical supplies – including personal protective equipment – to where it is needed, including air bridges where ground transport is impossible.

Even before the Covid-19 crisis, Beasley was appealing to donor countries to up food relief funding to the poorest, because conflict and natural disaster were putting severe strain on food systems.

“I was already saying that 2020 would be the worst year since the second world war, on the basis of what we forecast at the end of last year,” he said. Added to that, earlier this year East Africa was hit by the worst locust swarms for decades, putting as many as 70 million people at risk.

But the Covid-19 pandemic, which no one could have foreseen, has “taken us to uncharted territory”, he said. “Now, my goodness, this is a perfect storm. We are looking at widespread famines of biblical proportions.”

According to a report produced by the UN and other organisations on Thursday, at least 265 million people are being pushed to the brink of starvation by the Covid-19 crisis, double the number under threat before the pandemic.

None of those looming deaths from starvation are inevitable, said Beasley. “If we get money, and we keep the supply chains open, we can avoid famine,” he said. “We can stop this if we act now.”

He said the situation even four weeks from now was impossible to forecast, stressing that donors must act with urgency. He urged countries not to put in place export bans or other restrictions on the supply of food across borders, which would lead to shortages.

But Beasley also warned that staving off the threat of famine would take months, so assistance would be needed well beyond the initial response. “Our grave concern is that we could begin to put Covid-19 behind us [in developed countries] in three or four months, and then the money runs out,” he said. “And if the money runs out people will die.”

Last year, the World Food Programme assisted about 100 million people in desperation, with a budget of about $7.5bn (£6bn). “I could easily see that need [for budget] doubling,” said Beasley.

Money alone will not be enough, he added. It is difficult for relief workers to get through lockdowns around the world and set up air bridges when transport is paralysed. “We need money and access – not one or the other, both.”

Also crucial is ensuring that supply chains stay open in the face of lockdowns and the difficulty of getting workers into the fields to tend crops if they are sick or unable to travel easily. “If the supply chain breaks down, people can’t get food – and if they can’t get food for long enough, they will die,” said Beasley.

“We are in this together. We can stop this becoming a widespread famine. But we need to act quickly and smartly.”

[The Romulan Republic]

CDC is warning that there will likely be a second wave next winter, and that it may be more severe than this one:

https://cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics/sec ... index.html

Not sure how reliable the data is, but a new study regarding the best materials for making face masks. Surprise, Donald was full of shit again:

https://yahoo.com/huffpost/best-coronav ... 00624.html

In early April, when Americans began to embrace the idea of wearing face masks to flatten the curve of the coronavirus, President Donald Trump suggested it wouldn’t hurt the public to wear masks, but that scarves could be a perfectly suitable substitute.

“It doesn’t have to be a mask. It can be a scarf,” Trump said. “What I do see people doing here is using scarves. And I think in a certain way, depending on the fabric, I think in a certain way, a scarf is better, it’s actually better.”

A new study of the best and worst materials for DIY face masks just proved he was absolutely incorrect.

Smart Air, a social enterprise and certified B-Corp that promotes cost-effective, data-backed air filters as a solution to indoor particulate air pollution, has released the results of their latest research on DIY face mask materials, in which they tested over 30 different materials ― including bra pads, coffee filters, pillow cases, electrostatic cloths, cotton T-shirts, wool, bed sheets, polyester, bandanas and more ― for their effectiveness in filtering coronavirus-sized microparticles, as well as their breathability.

Both those factors are vital, because while some materials may test high for filtration, they test low for breathability ― a mask you can’t actually breathe in isn’t exactly helpful to anyone.

Among the key takeaways: Trump’s scarves tested among the least effective materials, while denim, canvas and paper towels were among the best.

(Photo: Smart Air)
(Photo: Smart Air)
How the testing worked
Smart Air aimed to mimic the test setup used by Cambridge University researchers, known as a Henderson apparatus​, in which a fan blows air and particles through the mask material. The materials were tested for their ability to filter large-sized (1 micron, similar to the size of the Ebola virus) and small-sized (0.3 micron, the size of the smallpox virus) particles and for their breathability factor. For reference, COVID-19 coronavirus particles measure 0.06-0.14 microns in size, but 5-10 microns when in droplets.

The version of the Henderson apparatus used by Smart Air in this study. (Photo: Smart Air)
The version of the Henderson apparatus used by Smart Air in this study. (Photo: Smart Air)
The testing was done to clear up some myths about which face masks are best for public health. Smart Air had previously released data before COVID-19 reached its peak, but the company said the findings were “incomplete.” Over the past several weeks, it tested more crucial materials the earlier study left out, as well as guidelines for variables like thread count.

“There is a huge demand for information worldwide right now about what makes a safe and effective DIY face mask, but there is also a lot of fear and misinformation,” Smart Air CEO and aeronautical engineer Paddy Robertson said in a press release. “By releasing this data, and continuing to be totally transparent about our methodology, we hope to help individuals, institutions and potentially even governments make good, data-backed decisions about how to make face masks that will actually protect them.”

Coffee filters are no longer recommended for DIY masks
The new study showed that while coffee filters are extremely effective at filtering microparticles, they score very poorly on the breathability scale, knocking them off the list of recommended DIY mask materials.

“Coffee filters, although very effective at filtering virus-sized particles, won’t make great masks,” Robertson said in the release. “They’re just too difficult to breathe through.”

Scarves failed the test, big time
“Trump’s suggestion of using scarves as face masks may not be the best choice,” Robertson said. “Our tests showed that the three scarves we tested scored consistently low on their ability to capture tiny particles. Perhaps Trump should check out our data and update the general public.”

(Photo: Smart Air)
(Photo: Smart Air)
The three scarves tested ― made of merino wool, cashmere and lightweight ramie (similar to linen) ― all captured fewer than 10% of smallpox-sized particles. The worst scarf material – 100% ramie – filtered just 2.8%.

The best overall materials for DIY face masks
Based on a combination of breathability and filtration effectiveness, the study recommended denim, bed sheets (80-120 thread count), paper towels, canvas (0.4-0.5mm thick) and shop towels for homemade masks.

Keep in mind, however, that paper towels are not washable or reusable.

The 0.4-0.5mm thick canvas material ranked as being easier to breathe through than a surgical mask, while still performing fairly well at filtering particles. But if thick fabrics aren’t available to you, the study’s data showed that 100% cotton T-shirts, layered up, are also still effective options for homemade masks. (More on this below.)

In general, natural materials are a better option than synthetic ones. Because synthetic fibers (like polyester) tend to be smooth, they don’t filter out particles as well as the rougher texture of natural fibers (like 100% cotton).

What happens when you use multiple layers of a material?
Many DIY face masks incorporate at least two layers of fabric, and sometimes up to 16 or even 32 layers if you’re making multiple folds. So how does that increase the material’s effectiveness?

Testing in this study was done on one and two layers. Robertson told HuffPost, “Doubling the layers increased 0.3 micron efficiency from 2% to 15%, whilst also reducing breathability. It’s difficult to give an exact ‘formula’ for each material on how doubling layers increases effectiveness, as air resistance plays a major part. We want to work on this though.”

Robertson said Smart Air plans to continue its research and release a third edition of the study with more information on layering the materials.

Best materials for blocking large-size particles
The majority of materials tested in Smart Air’s study blocked more than 50% of 1-micron particles, but some of the worst-scoring materials were the wool scarf, bandana (100% cotton) and light scarf (keep in mind, these were each tested in a single layer ― increasing layers slightly increases how many particles can be blocked).

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(Photo: Smart Air)
(Photo: Smart Air)
Best materials for blocking small-size particles
For 0.3-micron particles, Smart Air found “a much wider range in effectiveness.” The N95 mask, HEPA filter and surgical mask performed best, all capturing over 75% of small particles. But in terms of household materials, the best blockers were Hero-brand coffee filters. In the study, only four other materials filtered more than 48% of small particles: the 40D nylon, Chemex coffee filter, kitchen towel and canvas.

(Photo: Smart Air)
(Photo: Smart Air)
According to the study, “some materials were only slightly better than nothing.” The bandana, neck-warmer, scarves, cleaning cloths and 100% cotton T-shirt (one layer) all captured less than 10% of small particles.

No matter what your mask is made of, make sure to wear it responsibly
Whichever material you choose to make your mask from, and no matter how you choose to make it ― sewing, no-sew, folding ― it’s not a guaranteed protector against COVID-19.

Masks do not replace social distancing. While DIY face masks may be useful in situations like grocery stores and pharmacies where you cannot always stay six feet away from people, masks should not be used as a replacement for social distancing.

And remember: By covering your face in public, you are helping others to stay safe from anything you may be carrying. It’s more about their protection than your own.

Experts are still learning about the novel coronavirus. The information in this story is what was known or available as of press time, but it’s possible guidance concerning COVID-19 could change as scientists discover more about the virus. Please check the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for the most updated recommendations.

Related...

[bilateralrope]

Two articles about things that increased the spread of Covid19

Milwaukee’s election fiasco infected seven with COVID-19, officials say

Wisconsin's controversial decision to hold a primary election in the middle of the coronavirus epidemic has led to the infection of at least seven people, Milwaukee health officials say.

According to officials, six voters and one poll worker have tested positive for COVID-19. They added that more cases could emerge in the coming days. It's also not known how many infections may have happened in other parts of the state.

Fears of the coronavirus caused drastic shortfalls in volunteers to be poll workers for the April 7 election. That, in turn, forced officials to reduce the number of polling sites. Milwaukee was one of the hardest-hit parts of the state, with the number of voting locations falling from 180 to five. That forced some voters to wait in line for hours if they wanted to cast a vote.

In the days before the election, critics had warned that holding the vote in person could aid the spread of the virus. Governor Tony Evers asked the legislature to delay the vote a week ahead of the election, but the Republican-controlled legislature concluded that there wasn't enough time to do so. A federal judge rejected efforts to delay the vote without approval from the legislature.

In Florida, at least two poll workers tested positive for the coronavirus after the state's March 17 election. Ohio is scheduled to hold a primary election on April 27, but the election will be conducted almost entirely by mail.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has pushed for federal legislation to promote mail-in voting for the November general election. But so far those proposals have been rejected by Republican leaders in Congress.

Fox News hosts have measurable effect on COVID cases, study finds

Comparison of Fox News hosts reveals effect of disinformation on COVID-19 deaths.
JONATHAN M. GITLIN - 4/23/2020, 6:29 AM

One of the more frustrating aspects of the coronavirus pandemic has been the amount of disinformation swirling about. Much of this is politically motivated, perhaps unsurprising with the attention given to President Donald Trump's rambling, error-strewn press conferences. It may seem like commonsense that actively misleading the public during a national emergency has consequences, but now Fox News' two most-watched hosts have unwittingly performed a rather elegant experiment on their viewers that allows us to quantify that effect. The results are stark: greater exposure to Sean Hannity versus Tucker Carlson shows a measurable increase in the number of COVID-19 cases and deaths throughout March and early April.

Hannity and Carlson are Fox News' two biggest stars, each commanding around 4 million viewers for their respective evening shows (Hannity and Tucker Carlson Tonight). While often it can be hard to see daylight between their ideological pronouncements on-air, in early 2020, the two had markedly different lines on the coronavirus outbreak. Carlson began regularly covering the virus in January. During February, he did so with a growing sense of alarm that the United States could experience a heavy death toll—the same month that saw much inaction on the part of the federal government.
By contrast, Hannity gave the virus almost no attention in February. And when he began to discuss the virus at the same frequency as Carlson during the first two weeks of March, it was to minimize the threat compared to the number of annual deaths attributable to car crashes, shootings, or seasonal influenza. Additionally, Hannity also accused the Democratic Party of exaggerating the threat as a way of attacking the president. However, by mid-March, Hannity changed his tune once President Trump declared COVID-19 a national emergency.

The study comes from a group of researchers led by the University of Chicago's Leonardo Bursztyn and uses survey data gathered in April from 1,045 regular viewers of Fox News (aged 55 and over) to examine the timing of behavioral changes in response to the virus—when people began to cancel travel, isolate, increase the frequency of hand-washing, and so on.

The results are striking. Survey participants who preferred watching Carlson began changing their behavior on average three days earlier than other Fox News viewers. Meanwhile, participants who preferred Hannity acted much later—five days after other Fox News viewers, and eight days after Carlson viewers.

Next, the authors examined the data at a more granular level to determine whether there were local differences in the rate of COVID-19 infections or deaths in areas that watched more Hannity versus Carlson. They found that:

[C]ontrolling for a rich set of county-level demographics (including the local market share of Fox News), greater local viewership of Hannity relative to Tucker Carlson Tonight is associated with a greater number of COVID-19 cases starting in early March and a greater number of deaths resulting from COVID-19 starting in mid-March. In a set of permutation tests across socio-economic, demographic, political, and health-related covariates, as well as across geographical fixed effects to account for unobservable factors, we show that the established relationship is highly robust. Indeed, the estimated effects of exposure become stronger as we control for more factors.

The study then goes on to tease out whether there could be another reason for this correlation. For instance, could local sunset times affect the data? (Or, as the paper explains, "if people like to turn on their TVs to watch something when Hannity happens to be on instead of Tucker Carlson Tonight, the likelihood that viewers are shifted to watch Hannity is disproportionately large in areas where Fox News is popular in general.") But the effect remains. As viewership of Hannity increases compared to Carlson, there's a significant increase in COVID-19 cases in mid-March, which begins to decline later in the month as the two hosts' messages on coronavirus converge.

By this point, it's a safe assumption that some of you are screaming at your screens that the authors are idiots, because correlation isn't causation. But the study is well-controlled for other variables—for example, how rural an area is, how far it is from Seattle, or differential rates of health insurance—that could affect the local spread of COVID-19. For example, geography or rates of health insurance or educational attainment at the county level could explain these results. On top of that, the study builds on previous (recent) work that has shown that there are partisan differences in how people respond to emergencies—areas that saw more votes for Trump have lower hurricane-evacuation rates, for example, as well as GPS data that shows less social distancing in areas that watch greater amounts of Fox News.

Whether Fox News planned to conduct this experiment or not, it does elegantly show that dis- or misinformation during a public health emergency costs lives.

Neither surprise me. Though I wonder if those Fox News hosts will be surprised if they hear of this result.

[mr friendly guy]

China has reported some infections from a returned traveller from the US, it appears to be controlled with contact tracing, but you can never be too careful.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1186055.shtml

One infecting 50 in Harbin raises concerns, but lockdown 'unnecessary'
By Liu Caiyu Source:Global Times Published: 2020/4/19 19:13:40

Contact tracing of a Chinese national with COVID-19 who returned from the US to Harbin, capital of Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province, shows at least 50 people have contracted the virus after contact with the patient.

Public health experts played down the risks to the wider public, saying a citywide lockdown is unnecessary and Harbin will not become another Wuhan, as long as people do not drop their guard too soon and remain vigilant to the risks of catching the disease.

The woman, surnamed Han, flew from the US on March 19. Contact tracing revealed that 50 cases of COVID-19 were related to her, either directly or indirectly, including secondary infections at two hospitals.

Harbin reported 36 active confirmed cases and 18 asymptomatic infections as of Saturday midnight, while the numbers were one and three on April 9 when Han's infection was confirmed.

Some netizens and local residents are calling for a citywide lockdown, but public health experts said it is not necessary as there are no new cases beyond the infection chain, and all close contacts have been traced.

Han first infected a neighbor who came into contact with a contaminated environment. The virus then spread to the neighbor's family members and friends after a dinner gathering.

I think Chinese citizens need to sue the US for their incompetence in dealing with the virus and its spread to elsewhere. Man I wish I was paid 10000 pounds a month to write this bullshit like that British think tank which concluded China should be sued.

[The Romulan Republic]

The US government is shit.

The Chinese government is also shit.

No, the fact that America's government is shit does not excuse China's government for being shit.

[mr friendly guy]

The US government is shit.

The Chinese government is also shit.

No, the fact that America's government is shit does not excuse China's government for being shit.

Ok, what did the Chinese government do wrong in regards to controlling COVID 19 that you felt they could have done better to control? And if China can be sued for failing to control covid 19, can the US be sued for the war in Iraq, the 2008 financial crisis and the swine flu outbreak (which has still killed more than covid 19)? The fact that western media reports like drones that China should be sued without a shred of awareness of the double standards where only geopolitical rivals can be sued just shows they too, are shit.

[bilateralrope]

New Zealand just had it's first Covid19 death of someone under 70. She was 62.

Also, we had a net change of 0 cases today:

Two of Thursday's three new cases are confirmed and one is probable. However, there is no change in New Zealand's overall number of confirmed and probable cases, the total remaining at 1451. The ministry understands that the three cases linked to the Greg Mortimer Cruise Ship, reported on Wednesday, were tested in Uruguay. In that instance, the patients may have been reported by health officials in Uruguay to the World Health Organisation (WHO). The cases would therefore be counted under Uruguay rather than New Zealand's total. The ministry is investigating this.

[The Romulan Republic]

The US government is shit.

The Chinese government is also shit.

No, the fact that America's government is shit does not excuse China's government for being shit.

Ok, what did the Chinese government do wrong in regards to controlling COVID 19 that you felt they could have done better to control? And if China can be sued for failing to control covid 19, can the US be sued for the war in Iraq, the 2008 financial crisis and the swine flu outbreak (which has still killed more than covid 19)? The fact that western media reports like drones that China should be sued without a shred of awareness of the double standards where only geopolitical rivals can be sued just shows they too, are shit.

I expect these are rhetorical questions, meant to portray me as a Hypocritical Western Imperialist for daring to suggest that the Chinese government isn't completely faultless in all things, or that the US government's faults don't excuse the Chinese government's.

But to answer your questions in order:

1. Initially suppressed information on the outbreak and possibly low-balled the death count. Also, depending on how exactly it originated, continues to allow wet markets that facilitate the spread of new diseases from animals to humans.

2. I never argued that China could be sued (IIRC, governments generally can't be), so I feel no obligation to defend a position I never took, and which you falsely ascribed to me.

Also, while this is a quibble that doesn't really affect the substance of either of our arguments' , whether the Swine Flu killed more people is open to debate- officially lab-confirmed deaths were 18,449 if Wikipedia is to be believed, which is far less than COVID-19's 183,336 deaths, although the estimated death toll of swine flu ranges from over 150,000 to over half a million. Of course, COVID is still ongoing, and given the predictions of a worse second wave in the winter, and the fact that a number of countries are likely badly undercounting their death toll, it is entirely plausible, even likely, that it will pass swine flu's toll.

As to the rest... a generic sweeping attack on "western media"/ad hominem, as per usual.

All of which misses the fundamental point that repeating a litany of Western crimes our pointing out instances of hypocrisy in the West does not actually prove the innocence of the Chinese dictatorship- it merely attempts to distract from it via changing the topic/ad hominem.

[bilateralrope]

Is Trump even the lesser of the two evils if you look at the sexual assault that he personally committed vs Biden ?

I've lost track of all the complaints against Trump.

[The Romulan Republic]

Is Trump even the lesser of the two evils if you look at the sexual assault that he personally committed vs Biden ?

I've lost track of all the complaints against Trump.

I think you're in the wrong thread here.

Anyway, I don't want to compare rape counts to see who's the bigger monster- one rape is more than enough to qualify.

But in case anyone's wondering, Trump currently has, by Huffington Post's running count, accusations of rape or other forms of sexual misconduct against him from twenty four separate women, including rape accusations from his ex-wife Ivana and one anonymous complainant who alleges that he raped her when she was 13:

https://huffingtonpost.ca/entry/a-runni ... ri18n=true

Edit: A business insider article says 25: https://businessinsider.com/women-accus ... st-2017-12

[bilateralrope]

I think you're in the wrong thread here.

Yes, I am. Could a mod please fix my mistake.

[Broomstick]

None of those looming deaths from starvation are inevitable, said Beasley. “If we get money, and we keep the supply chains open, we can avoid famine,” he said. “We can stop this if we act now.”

The problem is that the wealthy nations of the world are having trouble with money flow and keeping the supply chains open in their own countries. If the nations with money are struggling they aren't likely to be able, much less willing, to send aid.

2020 is turning into a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[mr friendly guy]

I expect these are rhetorical questions, meant to portray me as a Hypocritical Western Imperialist for daring to suggest that the Chinese government isn't completely faultless in all things, or that the US government's faults don't excuse the Chinese government's.

I never made that claim genius. I am only asking people to apply the same standards. If China could be sued for not controlling a natural disaster, then the US should also be sued for not only failure to contain a natural disaster like swine flu, but for a mad made disaster. as well

But to answer your questions in order:

1. Initially suppressed information on the outbreak and possibly low-balled the death count. Also, depending on how exactly it originated, continues to allow wet markets that facilitate the spread of new diseases from animals to humans.

Yes, the one week it took from atypical pneumonia being reported to isolating the virus, and another week or so before confirming human to human transmission is "suppressing the information." Please give your arguments for this, not just cut and paste some article making numerous arguments. Which specific argument or example?

2. I never argued that China could be sued (IIRC, governments generally can't be), so I feel no obligation to defend a position I never took, and which you falsely ascribed to me.

Then why the fuck did you reply to a post lambasting the idea of suing the PRC then?

All of which misses the fundamental point that repeating a litany of Western crimes our pointing out instances of hypocrisy in the West does not actually prove the innocence of the Chinese dictatorship- it merely attempts to distract from it via changing the topic/ad hominem.

Again, no one made that claim. You keep on with this strawman. Its no longer funny.

[The Romulan Republic]

I posted because I find your constant Whataboutism in defense of the Chinese government tiresome. You responded with more Whataboutism, plus the usual insults. For fuck's sake, I'm inclined to agree that China can't/shouldn't be sued- I just think you need a better argument.

By the way, I love how you tell me to post my argument, then all but tell me not to cite sources. But then, any source I cited you would likely dismiss as western media propaganda, so...

[ray245]

I posted because I find your constant Whataboutism in defense of the Chinese government tiresome. You responded with more Whataboutism, plus the usual insults. For fuck's sake, I'm inclined to agree that China can't/shouldn't be sued- I just think you need a better argument.

By the way, I love how you tell me to post my argument, then all but tell me not to cite sources. But then, any source I cited you would likely dismiss as western media propaganda, so...

A lot of western media reporting on China has been rather spotty, no matter how reputable the media might be. You can do some research that shows how much of the media can make a fair number of mistakes in their reports.

In other words, if you do a bit of more detailed research, you can find out what did China do wrong, and what are the things that China could not do any better. Don't opt for simple narrative. Aim for a detailed and nuance criticism of what China did.

[FaxModem1]

NBC News

Las Vegas workers push back after mayor's call to reopen casinos and hotels
"We're not test subjects. We're people. We are employees," said a bartender.


Mayor calls Las Vegas shutdown 'total insanity'
APRIL 21, 202008:57
April 22, 2020, 9:21 PM CDT / Updated April 23, 2020, 5:23 AM CDT
By Caitlin Fichtel
After Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman called Wednesday for the swift reopening of hotels and casinos, many who earn their livelihoods in such establishments said they were afraid to return unless strict safety measures were introduced for themselves and guests.

Although Goodman said the businesses should reopen, she provided no guidelines on how they should handle social distancing and other safety measures to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

"I want us open in the city of Las Vegas so our people can go back to work," Goodman said in a CNN interview. She was asked how that could be accomplished while prioritizing employees' safety by implementing social distancing.

"That's up to them to figure out. I don't own a casino," she said.

Full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

D. Taylor, the president of UNITE Here, a union that represents more than 300,000 hospitality workers across the country, called Goodman's comments "one of the worst things I've heard."

"Nobody wants people to go back more than I do, but everyone wants to go back to a safe and secure workplace and not be an experiment in a petri dish," Taylor said.

Alexander Acosta, a banquet bartender with the Caesar Forum Conference Center, said the comments "struck a nerve" among workers.

"We're not test subjects. We're people. We are employees," Acosta said. "We try to live every day as we can. We shouldn't be test subjects."

Casino and hotel workers will not feel comfortable returning unless strict safety measures are introduced, including social distancing guidelines, thorough cleaning of facilities and temperature checks of patrons before they are allowed to enter.

Wynn Resorts, which owns multiple hotels and casinos in Las Vegas, released a report Sunday detailing a plan to reopen the Las Vegas Strip with safety measures like thermal cameras and social distancing.

Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak tweeted Wednesday that Las Vegas would reopen "when the time is right."

"And we are working around the clock to ensure we are not only the most fun destination in the world, but the safest," he said.


Governor Sisolak
✔
@GovSisolak
· 11h
Replying to @GovSisolak
Nevadans have done an excellent job flattening the curve so far. That’s why we haven’t seen nearly the number of cases or deaths predicted in early models. I’m so proud of our State.


Governor Sisolak
✔
@GovSisolak
So to all those who can’t wait to come back, we can’t wait to welcome you – when the time is right. And we are working around the clock to ensure we are not only the most fun destination in the world, but the safest.

959
6:44 PM - Apr 22, 2020
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174 people are talking about this
The Culinary Union, which represents the largest segment of workers on the Strip, said 11 members have died from COVID-19.

For those playing at home, Randall Flagg only opened up the casinos after the virus had killed everyone in Vegas, not during.

[mr friendly guy]

I posted because I find your constant Whataboutism in defense of the Chinese government tiresome. You responded with more Whataboutism, plus the usual insults. For fuck's sake, I'm inclined to agree that China can't/shouldn't be sued- I just think you need a better argument.

You agreed that China can't / shouldn't be sued which was my point, but you thought to make an unrelated argument so you can criticise me for whataboutism, a term I don't think you understand, as has been pointed out numerous times by several people. Apparently demanding that China gets treated the same way as America is "defending the Chinese government." Ok, in a broad sense I suppose, but this just goes to show how far your cognitive bias is, just demanding China is held to the same standard as the US is now "bad." I didn't realise it was one standard for the West and their allies, and one for other nations. Good to know that.

By the way, I love how you tell me to post my argument, then all but tell me not to cite sources. But then, any source I cited you would likely dismiss as western media propaganda, so...

No, I am asking you to state your argument with evidence for a specific claim, rather than your previous strategy of posting long articles and leaving it at that. Its very lazy frankly.

[The Romulan Republic]

I posted because I find your constant Whataboutism in defense of the Chinese government tiresome. You responded with more Whataboutism, plus the usual insults. For fuck's sake, I'm inclined to agree that China can't/shouldn't be sued- I just think you need a better argument.

You agreed that China can't / shouldn't be sued which was my point, but you thought to make an unrelated argument so you can criticise me for whataboutism, a term I don't think you understand, as has been pointed out numerous times by several people. Apparently demanding that China gets treated the same way as America is "defending the Chinese government." Ok, in a broad sense I suppose, but this just goes to show how far your cognitive bias is, just demanding China is held to the same standard as the US is now "bad." I didn't realise it was one standard for the West and their allies, and one for other nations. Good to know that.

That's not what I'm saying, but since your entire shtick is to respond to any criticism of the Chinese government with "But what about all these evil things the West as done, you hypocrite!" (ie, Whataboutism), its no surprise that you would paint my argument in that light.

You're really only capable of playing one note, aren't you?

No, I am asking you to state your argument with evidence for a specific claim, rather than your previous strategy of posting long articles and leaving it at that. Its very lazy frankly.

If an article does an adequate job of summarizing the issues, why should I waste time rewording it just to satisfy you?

If I agree with part of an article but not another, I will sometimes note that.

[ray245]

If an article does an adequate job of summarizing the issues, why should I waste time rewording it just to satisfy you?

If I agree with part of an article but not another, I will sometimes note that.

Here's the tricky bit. Does the articles do an adequate job of summarising the issues? What's their source? Have they fact check it against other readily available sources?

There is a big difference between the narrative of the article and the source of those claims.

I am begging you to be careful and nuanced when it comes to reading reporting on China, because the most effective criticism against the CCP is to criticise them based on accurate and reliable facts. Western reporting on China has not help the Chinese in reforming their political system. In fact, all it does is to make your average Chinese even more defensive about the CCP.

[The Romulan Republic]

If an article does an adequate job of summarizing the issues, why should I waste time rewording it just to satisfy you?

If I agree with part of an article but not another, I will sometimes note that.

Here's the tricky bit. Does the articles do an adequate job of summarising the issues? What's their source? Have they fact check it against other readily available sources?

There is a big difference between the narrative of the article and the source of those claims.

I am begging you to be careful and nuanced when it comes to reading reporting on China, because the most effective criticism against the CCP is to criticise them based on accurate and reliable facts. Western reporting on China has not help the Chinese in reforming their political system. In fact, all it does is to make your average Chinese even more defensive about the CCP.

Obviously it is important to be critical of your sources. If there's a factual error or contradiction in something I post, I sincerely welcome having it pointed out.

But I am so sick of this bullshit. Every damn time anyone posts anything slightly critical of the Chinese government, he starts snidely posting about all the evil things the West has done, the intention seemingly being to derail the conversation, deflect onto attacking the West, and label anyone who disagrees with him a Hypocritical Western Apologist.

See his claim that I believe the West and its allies should be held to a more lenient standard than China, when in fact I am arguing the exact opposite- that the crimes of one do not excuse the crimes of the other. When it is in fact he who clearly wants to hold them to different standards. If he actually cared about consistency, he would condemn the crimes of both, and demand that both be held accountable- not use the crimes of one to deflect and discredit criticism of the other.

I mean, for fuck's sake, of all the preposterous lies and smears that have been told about me on this board, the idea that I am some unthinking apologist of Western crimes, who thinks the West and its allies ought to get a free pass, is probably the most absurd. I'm certain I have biases, as all people do, and it is true that, being a Westerner, I tend to have a more informed and nuanced view of the West than other regions of the world, but the idea that I give Western governments a pass is just ridiculous. Does nobody on this board remember the literally several thousand posts I've made condemning the Trump Regime, and its coronavirus response in particular? Or my numerous attacks on the British government? Hell, I've even called Justin Trudeau complicit in Trump's ethnic cleansing, due to Canada's "safe third country" policy toward the US. So forgive me if I think that anyone labeling me as an apologist for Western crimes because I also condemn dictators and murderers in other countries is being dishonest.

Its not just him either- any time anyone criticizes a non-Western dictatorship, there's a hoard of internet lemmings ready to rush to its defense with Whataboutism, ad hominem, and thread derailment. I can't even take it personally, really, because they do this shit to everybody all the time. And it makes any reasonable or honest discussion all but impossible.

Frankly, I think this board, and half the internet, would probably be much better places if Whataboutism were an instant ban offense, and if that policy was enforced rigorously.

[ray245]

Obviously it is important to be critical of your sources. If there's a factual error or contradiction in something I post, I sincerely welcome having it pointed out.

But I am so sick of this bullshit. Every damn time anyone posts anything slightly critical of the Chinese government, he starts snidely posting about all the evil things the West has done, the intention seemingly being to derail the conversation, deflect onto attacking the West, and label anyone who disagrees with him a Hypocritical Western Apologist.

See his claim that I believe the West and its allies should be held to a more lenient standard than China, when in fact I am arguing the exact opposite- that the crimes of one do not excuse the crimes of the other. When it is in fact he who clearly wants to hold them to different standards. If he actually cared about consistency, he would condemn the crimes of both, and demand that both be held accountable- not use the crimes of one to deflect and discredit criticism of the other.

I mean, for fuck's sake, of all the preposterous lies and smears that have been told about me on this board, the idea that I am some unthinking apologist of Western crimes, who thinks the West and its allies ought to get a free pass, is probably the most absurd. I'm certain I have biases, as all people do, and it is true that, being a Westerner, I tend to have a more informed and nuanced view of the West than other regions of the world, but the idea that I give Western governments a pass is just ridiculous. Does nobody on this board remember the literally several thousand posts I've made condemning the Trump Regime, and its coronavirus response in particular? Or my numerous attacks on the British government? Hell, I've even called Justin Trudeau complicit in Trump's ethnic cleansing, due to Canada's "safe third country" policy toward the US. So forgive me if I think that anyone labeling me as an apologist for Western crimes because I also condemn dictators and murderers in other countries is being dishonest.

Its not just him either- any time anyone criticizes a non-Western dictatorship, there's a hoard of internet lemmings ready to rush to its defense with Whataboutism, ad hominem, and thread derailment. I can't even take it personally, really, because they do this shit to everybody all the time. And it makes any reasonable or honest discussion all but impossible.

Frankly, I think this board, and half the internet, would probably be much better places if Whataboutism were an instant ban offense, and if that policy was enforced rigorously.

Yes, you have been very critical of Western governments, but your reference point can hinder you from making effective criticism of the non-western world.

Here's some of the claims you are making:

Initially suppressed information on the outbreak and possibly low-balled the death count. Also, depending on how exactly it originated, continues to allow wet markets that facilitate the spread of new diseases from animals to humans.

1. I don't doubt that they have suppressed information about the outbreak and low-balled the death-count. But China and Wuhan is also where the outbreak first begun, which means it was not possible to conduct mass-testing in the early stage of the outbreak. So you need to actively separate the distinction between a failure to count the cases because of a lack of testing ( because test-kits are not even invented yet), and a failure to report higher and more accurate numbers because officials do not want things to look bad.

It also needs to take into account that the Wuhan lockdown is stricter than most countries. Most Western lockdowns, and even some Asian lockdowns ( like in Singapore) are not as strict as it is in Wuhan.

2. Blaming wet-market itself is not helpful because wet-market by itself is not an issue. Many countries in Asia, and even in the West have "wet-markets". Most "wet-market" do not conduct illegal trade of animals. In many countries with better regulation, you can have safe and clean wet markets. So you are coming from a point of view that do not understand what "wet-markets" are. You are relying on the western media, which at times misrepresent what wet-markets are and plays up on people's xenophobia and lack of cultural awareness to create a particular kind of narrative.

So instead of a criticism towards wet-market as a whole, you need to target your criticism at wet-markets that do not practice any safe hygiene and allows illegal trading of wild meat. This entails doing more research in understanding wet-markets are in the first place. Criticise the fact that dangerous wildlife trade is flourishing because there is a connection between the elites and the wildlife farmers sharing similar interest and wildlife farmers have strong influence and lobbying power on the CCP. Criticise the fact that corruption has allowed illegal trading to be conducted. Criticise the fact that a strong Chinese TCM culture has influenced demand for certain animal products.

Criticise the fact that many Chinese still prefer an animal to be slaughtered live at the markets, hence authorities are less likely to take action against an established cultural norm.

As an ethnic Chinese ( but not someone from China), I tend to notice at times even liberal or progressive western media can fall prey into a xenophobic lens in their articles about China. An article blaming wet-markets oversimplify the issue, and creates a framework of dirty-Chinese vs clean-Western Supermarkets. This of course is not a problem solely limited to Western reporting on China, but foreign reporting as a whole. Reporting on foreign countries, especially one that do not share the same language or culture is a challenging job, and there is always a tendency to oversimplify issues.

[FireNexus]

McConnell’s proposal of letting states go bankrupt instead of a bailout is a way of extending the GOP project of dismantling government to the blue states. Make no mistake, McConnell has been planning a push of that policy since 2010 at least. He didn’t know what the crisis would be, but he knew it would come eventually.

The fact that everybody is arguing on his terms (“blue states give more”, “why would senator McConnell want a policy that would cause such harm”, etc.) means he’ll probably get his way. Every Democratic politician in America should be calling it out for what it is, but they are not.

[Zaune]

McConnell’s proposal of letting states go bankrupt instead of a bailout is a way of extending the GOP project of dismantling government to the blue states. Make no mistake, McConnell has been planning a push of that policy since 2010 at least. He didn’t know what the crisis would be, but he knew it would come eventually.

The fact that everybody is arguing on his terms (“blue states give more”, “why would senator McConnell want a policy that would cause such harm”, etc.) means he’ll probably get his way. Every Democratic politician in America should be calling it out for what it is, but they are not.

I can kind of see why, though. It's kind of difficult to make the point that the Trump administration is willing to kill American citizens who sent a Democrat to Congress, either as a premeditated act of retaliation or through depraved indifference, without implicitly raising the question of whether it's time to stop being Americans rather than put up with this shit anymore.

I personally think it's high time that question was raised, and seriously discussed at all levels of society, but I can't fault Democrat politicians from being afraid to cross the Rubicon and say so in public.

[mr friendly guy]

That's not what I'm saying, but since your entire shtick is to respond to any criticism of the Chinese government with "But what about all these evil things the West as done, you hypocrite!" (ie, Whataboutism), its no surprise that you would paint my argument in that light.

Lying is par for the course for you isn't it? My shtick is that China should be treated the same as Western governments.

Its more like Western governments do it, people don't consider it evil, but its only bad when China does it.

Literally we see the NYT times praise Italy for going into lockdown but one tweet earlier criticise China for doing the same. We have people criticise China for requiring a private lab to destroy samples of the virus as a "cover up," but no one says its wrong when the US CDC has the same rule because only government labs should hold such biological agents.

We see journalists and people argue its bad for China to donate medical supplies because its "making the US look bad." Unless you think donation when the West does it is now "evil," then your argument doesn't apply and you can stick the strawman up your fat arse, because that's all you got.

You're really only capable of playing one note, aren't you?

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

If an article does an adequate job of summarizing the issues, why should I waste time rewording it just to satisfy you?

If I agree with part of an article but not another, I will sometimes note that.

1. Taking something written and putting it in your own words is a something done in primary school to demonstrate the child understands it, rather than copying from a book. This concept is apparently hard for you.

2. Ok then. Next time anyone disagrees with you, I encourage them to say TRR argument sucks, post an hour youtube video which agrees with their view and then say this refutes TRR's argument. Please watch.

Let me give you an example. When you say they suppressed information about the outbreak, from which dates (roughly). How long did they know before they revealed it publicly? Evidence for them knowing about it before official announcement? Which information, the fact that a mysterious disease exist or the numbers of cases. What are the true numbers then? Your articles don't do shit on it and I am not surprise you can't either.

[bilateralrope]

US President Donald Trump suggests 'injecting disinfectant' to treat COVID-19, 'clean the lungs'

Being injected with disinfectant could be an effective treatment for COVID-19, US President Donald Trump has bizarrely claimed during a disastrous press conference from the White House.

Trump made the comment after Department of Homeland Security (DHS) official Bill Bryan gave a presentation on research his team has carried out, which showed the coronavirus does not live as long in humidity or warmer temperatures.

After Bryan explained that the virus dies quickest in sunlight, Trump suggested there may be some way to "[bring] the light inside the body".

"So supposing we hit the body with a tremendous ultraviolet or just a very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn't been checked because of the testing," Trump said to Bryan.

"And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that too.

"I would like you to speak to the medical doctors to see if there's any way that you can apply light and heat to cure [COVID-19]. Maybe you can, maybe you can't - I'm not a doctor, but I'm a person who has a good you know what," he said, pointing to his head.

Trump then went on to suggest that injecting disinfectant could "[do] a tremendous number on the lungs".

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute - one minute," he said. "And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning?

"As you see it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

Disinfectant is effective at killing pathogens like COVID-19, but can lead to poisoning or even death if it is ingested - a point New Zealand scientist Dr Michelle Dickinson was eager to get across after watching the briefing.

"You know how bleach and other home cleaning supplies and disinfectants have child-proof lids to protect children from drinking them?" she wrote on Twitter.

"This is because drinking them can kill them so it keeps our kids safe! This is also the reason why we don't inject disinfectants into people."

Dr Michelle Dickinson
✔
@medickinson
You know how bleach and other home cleaning supplies and disinfectants have child-proof lids to protect children from drinking them? This is because drinking them can kill them so it keeps our kids safe! This is also the reason why we don't inject disinfectants into people

It's not the first time Trump has touted unproven treatments as potential cures for COVID-19. Earlier this month he said hydroxychloroquine could be a "game-changer", despite studies showing it could increase the likelihood of death by three times.

His comments capped off a calamitous coronavirus briefing for Trump, who also got in a spat with a Washington Post journalist who challenged him on the medical basis for the treatments he was suggesting.

"I'm the President, and you're fake news," he told Philip Rucker. "I know the guy, I see what he writes - he's a total faker."

The President also claimed that "numerous" world leaders had called him in the last 48 hours to say the US was "leading the way" with its COVID-19 response, despite the US recording the highest number of confirmed cases (887,000) and deaths (50,000) from COVID-19 in the world.

I wonder how many people are going to die because they followed this suggestion from Trump.