The 2016 US Election (Part I)

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Xisiqomelir
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Gaidin wrote:Me, I'm curious what the Party will do should Trump actually complete his win. Because right now insofar as historical lookback we're seeing a good analogue to Goldwater winning in 1964, but I wonder if enough will carry that over into the general election.
The most anti-Trump elements will be purged, and the most pro-Trump elements will be rewarded, but for him to fundamentally alter the characteristics of the Party he'll need a deeper historical basis for legacy like a 2nd term (like Reagan or Clinton), or a successful turnover of power to his VP (also like Reagan, and very unlike Clinton).

I'm not denying that he will change the makeup of the party with a win, though. I'm pretty sure the first plank to get tossed out of the big tent will be neolibertarian economics, i.e. "Free Trade Agreements are always good for the United States, no matter the counterparty".
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The Republican party would probably openly embrace its bigotry, instead of occasionally bothering with the very thin veil.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Gaidin »

Xisiqomelir wrote: The most anti-Trump elements will be purged, and the most pro-Trump elements will be rewarded, but for him to fundamentally alter the characteristics of the Party he'll need a deeper historical basis for legacy like a 2nd term (like Reagan or Clinton), or a successful turnover of power to his VP (also like Reagan, and very unlike Clinton).

I'm not denying that he will change the makeup of the party with a win, though. I'm pretty sure the first plank to get tossed out of the big tent will be neolibertarian economics, i.e. "Free Trade Agreements are always good for the United States, no matter the counterparty".
You go a bit far with the idea of 'Trump' and 'win' and 'Presidency' with my question. After all, Goldwater didn't win the Presidency, very much so because many Republicans considered it a mark of loyalty to not vote for such an extremist member into such an office. In fact many voted for Johnson. 'Win' goes only so far as the 'Primary' here.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Mr Bean »

Gaidin wrote:
Xisiqomelir wrote: The most anti-Trump elements will be purged, and the most pro-Trump elements will be rewarded, but for him to fundamentally alter the characteristics of the Party he'll need a deeper historical basis for legacy like a 2nd term (like Reagan or Clinton), or a successful turnover of power to his VP (also like Reagan, and very unlike Clinton).

I'm not denying that he will change the makeup of the party with a win, though. I'm pretty sure the first plank to get tossed out of the big tent will be neolibertarian economics, i.e. "Free Trade Agreements are always good for the United States, no matter the counterparty".
You go a bit far with the idea of 'Trump' and 'win' and 'Presidency' with my question. After all, Goldwater didn't win the Presidency, very much so because many Republicans considered it a mark of loyalty to not vote for such an extremist member into such an office. In fact many voted for Johnson. 'Win' goes only so far as the 'Primary' here.
You're forgetting the Democratic X Factor known as Hillary Clinton's future indictment. There is an excellent possibility that if it does not end up as Trump vs. Sanders and Trump vs Clinton happens then the legal system could hand Trump the win by default kind of hard to run for President when under indictment.

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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

So....
This just happened, and it's NOT an onion article.
http://abcnews.com.co/donald-trump-anno ... president/

Yesterday, Sheriff Joe Arpaio officially endorsed Donald Trump for president. Today, Trump shocked the country by announcing Arpaio as his pick for Vice Presidential running mate in 2016.

“I have great respect for Joe Arpaio,” Trump told reporters. “Like me, he understands that we must restore law and order to the border and respect the men and women of our police forces. I thank him for his support of my policies and candidacy for President. He too knows that we can make America great again, and because of this, I am proud to announce Joe Arpaio as my Vice Presidential running mate. And just moments ago, I’m happy to report that Arpaio has accepted my offer. So it’s now official; you will see a Trump-Arpaio ticket come this November.”

“Donald Trump is a leader,” Arpaio said in a written statement distributed by Trump’s presidential campaign. “He produces results and is ready to get tough in order to protect American jobs and families. I have fought on the front lines to prevent illegal immigration. I know Donald Trump will stand with me and countless Americans to secure our border. I am proud to support him as the best candidate for President and even prouder to accept his challenge of being the next Vice President of the United States.”
Anyone at this point who thinks he has ANY chance in the general election is so very very delusional.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Is this legit?

I ask because I seem to recall getting suckered by a fake abc article not long ago, and I did a Google News search for Arpaio just now that turned up fuck all about this.

Second source please.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:So....
This just happened, and it's NOT an onion article.
http://abcnews.com.co/donald-trump-anno ... president/

Yesterday, Sheriff Joe Arpaio officially endorsed Donald Trump for president. Today, Trump shocked the country by announcing Arpaio as his pick for Vice Presidential running mate in 2016.

“I have great respect for Joe Arpaio,” Trump told reporters. “Like me, he understands that we must restore law and order to the border and respect the men and women of our police forces. I thank him for his support of my policies and candidacy for President. He too knows that we can make America great again, and because of this, I am proud to announce Joe Arpaio as my Vice Presidential running mate. And just moments ago, I’m happy to report that Arpaio has accepted my offer. So it’s now official; you will see a Trump-Arpaio ticket come this November.”

“Donald Trump is a leader,” Arpaio said in a written statement distributed by Trump’s presidential campaign. “He produces results and is ready to get tough in order to protect American jobs and families. I have fought on the front lines to prevent illegal immigration. I know Donald Trump will stand with me and countless Americans to secure our border. I am proud to support him as the best candidate for President and even prouder to accept his challenge of being the next Vice President of the United States.”
Anyone at this point who thinks he has ANY chance in the general election is so very very delusional.
Not even five seconds of Googling:

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-vp-arpaio/
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Yeah I'm pretty sure I got suckered on this. Can't find anything else, and no one picks a VP this early.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Borgholio »

Good old Trump. During an interview, he implies that he would go to war with Mexico to make them pay for the wall.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop- ... 7?cmpid=sf
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Khaat »

Got to hand it to Trump: "Fuck immigrants! Have you seen my wife? Need I say more?"
Damn. Now I have to hope no one in his campaign gets ahold of this idea....
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Raw Shark »

Because as we all know, the best way to extract vast sums of money from a poor-ass third world nation is to make them fight an expensive war. They wouldn't be able to pay for it even if they wanted to. Not to mention that we probably wouldn't need to "rejuvenate" anything to conquer them, and that doing so would destabilize a country right on the border we're supposedly trying to close and motivate even more people to attempt to cross it. Trump is, as always, blowing smoke out of his dick for the purposes of empty pandering to chuckleheads who think more guns and fewer brown people will solve everything.

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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Gaidin »

Mr Bean wrote:
Gaidin wrote:
Xisiqomelir wrote: The most anti-Trump elements will be purged, and the most pro-Trump elements will be rewarded, but for him to fundamentally alter the characteristics of the Party he'll need a deeper historical basis for legacy like a 2nd term (like Reagan or Clinton), or a successful turnover of power to his VP (also like Reagan, and very unlike Clinton).

I'm not denying that he will change the makeup of the party with a win, though. I'm pretty sure the first plank to get tossed out of the big tent will be neolibertarian economics, i.e. "Free Trade Agreements are always good for the United States, no matter the counterparty".
You go a bit far with the idea of 'Trump' and 'win' and 'Presidency' with my question. After all, Goldwater didn't win the Presidency, very much so because many Republicans considered it a mark of loyalty to not vote for such an extremist member into such an office. In fact many voted for Johnson. 'Win' goes only so far as the 'Primary' here.
You're forgetting the Democratic X Factor known as Hillary Clinton's future indictment. There is an excellent possibility that if it does not end up as Trump vs. Sanders and Trump vs Clinton happens then the legal system could hand Trump the win by default kind of hard to run for President when under indictment.
All that does is change the democratic nominee. Not my analogy. Assuming we even have an AG with the balls to interfere with the election.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by bilateralrope »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:So....
This just happened, and it's NOT an onion article.
http://abcnews.com.co/donald-trump-anno ... president/
Anyone at this point who thinks he has ANY chance in the general election is so very very delusional.[/quote]

Take a good look at the URL. Note the .com.co part. Look for it next time.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Broomstick »

I'm assuming this is the place for this sort of thing:

From the Daily News not because they're a wonderful outlet but because they had a decent summary. Short version: Trump's St. Louis appearance today led to at least 32 arrests and at least 1 person bloodied. His Chicago stop was cancelled after two groups set up on opposite sides of Harrison street and another group of protesters chained themselves across an intersection, and all this was after an old geezer at an earlier appearance sucker-punched a protester then started making death threats.

Here's the Google page for the St Louis venue and here's another one for Chicago. Both sides of the political spectrum are reporting more or less the same base story: pro and anti-Trump camps are getting violent.
Donald Trump’s hate-spewing campaign continued Friday with a bloody stop in St. Louis — where dozens of protesters were led away in cuffs — with the GOP front-runner stoking tensions by calling his critics “troublemakers.”

The violence that erupted outside the Peabody Opera House even left one man bloodied and another charged with assault — forcing a Trump event in Chicago on Friday night to be postponed.

Hundreds, maybe thousands, of protesters were able to get into the University of Illinois at Chicago Pavilion where the Trump event was scheduled to begin at 7 p.m. local time. But clashes between supporters and protesters got out of control, and Trump's campaign canceled the event before the GOP front-runner even showed up to the 10,000-seat arena.

Scenes from the event showed total chaos, with attendees throwing punches, scuffling and ripping up signs as they came face-to-face. Hundreds more supporters and protesters had lined up outside the Chicago streets as well.

Earlier in St. Louis, the warm spring air was electric with tension as Trump supporters screamed profanities and racial epithets at the mostly African-American crowd of protesters.

It was Trump’s first rally since a 78-year-old man was arrested after he punched a protester being led out of a Fayetteville, N.C., event on Wednesday
The Chicago situation has been on the local news here. Literally two massive groups of people staring at each other across a street, separated by riot police. Some scuffles, but they're having a crowd control issue of how to disperser the two groups without them coming together again and starting a full-out riot.

You know, I am quite uncomfortable about the front runner of a political party inspiring this sort of thing. There are many uncomfortable comparisons I can make but don't have to, because others have already made them.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I am concerned and disappointed by the possibility that anti-Trump people are engaging in violence, although innocent until proven guilty, and if some of Trump's people started it, perhaps a self-defence case could be made. Regardless, their is no excuse for politically motivated violence (i.e. terrorism), or any violence not motivated by defensive necessity, by anyone.

And I've already seen some using this to try to discredit Bernie Sanders on another forum, including one post basically saying that this proves Sanders is a Left wing version of Trump. :roll: :banghead:

But sadly, I expect this to be the most violent campaign in at least recent American history, because their is a lot of rage and extremism, and Trump is happy to throw fuel on the fire.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Broomstick »

When you have people, some of whom think Trump really is a new version of Hitler, and others who think someone like Sanders is the tool of the devil, those extremists can start to view violence as, indeed, a form of defense against the perceived evil.

But I agree, NOT a good thing.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by The Romulan Republic »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan- ... 34118.html
2016-03-11-1457658246-7438103-FINALjpegGraphicpolldefyingwins.jpg
Bernie Sanders' historic upset in Tuesday night's Michigan Primary, which the nation's most influential polling aggregator estimated he would lose by 22 points, may prove to be the turning point in this election. That's because Sanders' two point victory in Michigan follows just a week or less after three other huge, but barely unnoticed poll-defying victories by Sanders in Colorado, Minnesota, and Kansas. Taken together with these other states, the Michigan upset is not, as America's foremost poll analyst Nate Silver claimed, a freak event not witnessed since the New Hampshire primary of 1984, but part of a new pattern of poll-defying results that will, if they continue, carry Bernie Sanders into the White House.

In the March 1st Super Tuesday contest, Sanders won Colorado by 19 points. The most recent poll there had shown him winning by 6 percent of the vote, adding up to a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 25 points. In Minnesota, which Bernie won by 23 points, the only poll (with a "margin of error of 5.9 percent") from the Minneapolis StarTribune prior to the election predicted that Clinton would beat Sanders by 34 points, adding up to a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 57 percent. In the under-reported Kansas contest on March 5, Bernie won by 35 percent, instead of losing by 10 percent as predicted, a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 45 percent.

The compelling question that eight days of election results in Michigan, Kansas, Colorado and Minnesota raises is how accurate are all the other recent polls showing Clinton victories on the March 15th Super Tuesday sequel? If Bernie surpasses the polls in these states by as much as he just did in Michigan, he stands to score historic upsets in the important delegate-rich states of Ohio and even North Carolina.

If Sanders does nearly as well as the 41 percent average poll-to-reality discrepancy of the four state pattern described above, Bernie may even win Illinois and Florida next week. Should that happen, it will be Bernie, not Hillary, who will have become "inevitable."

Why Aren't Voters Listening to the Polls?

The media drumbeat that Hillary Clinton has the election in the bag has been going on for months now. A few weeks ago, New York Times Washington correspondent Nate Cohn confirmed Hillary's coronation in a column titled, "Hillary Clinton and Inevitability: This Time Is Different." Cohn looked at the delegate count and compared Clinton's performance in 2008 with how she was doing this year, and concluded, "If a candidate has ever been inevitable -- for the nomination -- it is Mrs. Clinton today."

Media experts like Cohn point to an abundance of polls masquerading as news as the basis upon which they inform voters that Hillary Clinton will be winning the primary election. Poll results translate into conventional wisdom and until the startling Sanders upsets during the past few weeks, become a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy. The March 6 press release by the Mitchell/FOX 2 Detroit Poll, viewable in its entirely here, is a great example of how this was supposed to work in Michigan.

Detroit's widely watched Fox News commissioned Steve Mitchell, the region's top polling firm, to do more than a half dozen polls in the weeks leading up to the Michigan primary. The pollster's pre-election press release was headlined:

Clinton Opens Up Huge Lead in Michigan
(Clinton 66 percent - Sanders 29 percent)

It continued, "In a poll conducted Sunday afternoon and evening before the start of their CNN debate in Flint, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has opened up a huge lead over Vermont U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders among Democratic Party Presidential Primary voters in Michigan. Clinton leads Sanders 66 percent-29 percent, up from 55 percent-37 percent on Thursday night. Only 6 percent of the voters remain undecided."

The poll, the press release explained, was scientific and accurate. Mitchell's press release provided pages of tables and informed reporters that, "A quadruple filter was used to determine that we were surveying only likely Democratic Party Primary voters." The poll "has a Margin of Error of + or - 4.5 percent at the 95 percent level of confidence."

To spoon feed deadline reporters conventional wisdom, Mitchell provided this explanatory quote: "Hillary Clinton (66 percent), fueled by strong support from women and African-Americans, has a tremendous lead over Bernie Sanders (29 percent), Clinton is seems poised to win convincingly in Michigan on Tuesday. She came into the state earlier than Sanders and she really made the Flint water crisis her issue, adding to her already strong support among African-Americans, who could make up a quarter of all voters."

2016-03-11-1457658288-2397846-FoxMichiganHeadlinewithlesstext.jpg

The message to be conveyed to readers, viewers and listeners the day before the big presidential election was clear: Pack it in, would-be Sanders voters. You're dreaming if you think your puny vote will make a difference! Might as well stay home.

But a funny thing happened in Michigan. Bernie voters didn't listen to the polls, or the pundits. They turned out anyway, as they did in Kansas, Minnesota, and Colorado. And during next week's big primaries, the purportedly scientific polls that today show a big Hillary sweep in every state are going to seem a lot less scientific.

Other Indicators That Bernie Will Win the Nomination

In addition to the poll-to-reality discrepancy pattern described above, another encouraging indicator for the Sanders campaign is that his largest victories seem to lie ahead, while Hillary's are nearly all behind her. As Seth Abramson observed in this excellent Huffington Post column titled, "5 Reasons the Clinton-Sanders Race Is Much, Much Closer Than You Think", after Clinton's big wins in very red Southern States, "In virtually every other state left to vote -- twenty-eight states, to be exact -- the demographics are substantially more favorable for Sanders than they were in even the "friendliest" state for him in the South (Virginia). Perhaps this is why he's leading in the most recent polls in Wisconsin, Utah, and Idaho... This may be why even the Clinton boosters on CNN are now saying that they're worried Clinton will lose Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri to Sanders next week. In other words, Hillary performed impressively only in the South, and in less than a week there will be no more South for her to mine for votes."

One more indicator that Bernie will be the Democratic nominee is the least known, even though it has the most successful predictive track record. American University's Kogod School of Business tracked every Presidential primary since 1968 to determine which state primaries for each party were most likely to predict the eventual winner in the nomination contest. In their extensive study, only one state was found to predict the Democratic nominee 100 percent of the time for every presidential election during the last 50 years.

That state was Kansas.

Bernie won Kansas on March 5, with a poll-defying 67.7 percent of the vote.
This seems a bit overly optimistic to me, but an interesting analysis in any case.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Terralthra »

An interesting analysis with 3rd-grade level math errors.
your article wrote:In the March 1st Super Tuesday contest, Sanders won Colorado by 19 points. The most recent poll there had shown him winning by 6 percent of the vote, adding up to a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 25 points.
Bernie +19 vs Bernie by 6 is a discrepancy of 13 points, not 25. The author added instead of subtracting.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Omega18 »

Terralthra wrote:An interesting analysis with 3rd-grade level math errors...

Bernie +19 vs Bernie by 6 is a discrepancy of 13 points, not 25. The author added instead of subtracting.
The article was also quite deceptive (or clueless) in that it talked about Fivethirtyeight in the article, and then Colorado, Minnesota, and Kansas polling without ever mentioning that Fivethirtyeight didn't consider a single poll that came out of these states predicting the results for the Democratic primaries/caucuses reliable enough to consider for their prediction calculations. (In other words they treated all three states as basically unpolled in advance of the results.)

The talk about Clinton boosters worried about losing Illinois is also fairly strange especially as portrayed in the article. While the article doesn't make it clear who the people saying this are and they could just be media hyping up the drama of the primary, it could also be simply strategy to make sure potential Hillary supporters bother to show up to vote and also don't decide to vote in the Republican Primary instead in order to have an impact there. (There is statistical evidence suggesting that this might be part of what happened in Michigan with 7% of those voting in the Republican Primary describing themselves as Democrats in the exit polls. Since the margin of victory is the key in terms of running up delegate totals there is also a strong incentive to make sure supporters of you side fully shows up even when you're confident you will at least win in either scenario.)

The actual recent polling in Illinois actually has Hillary up 37% and 42% respectively. This means that statistically speaking it would be a much greater shocker for Hillary to lose Illinois than it would be to lose Michigan. (There is reason to suspect part of the difference is that Sander's versions of criticism of the Obama administration are more of an issue in a state which elected Obama as a Senator prior to his Presidential run.) Now based on the Michigan results I personally don't expect the margins to actually end up being that wide, but even if the polling average for the state was actually off in Hillary's favor as much as the polling averages were off in Michigan, (I.E. Sanders does that much better) Hillary would still win the state by a solid margin based on the polling so far.

I would also note in response to the point in the article about Hillary performing impressively in the South that while its clearly true that's where she has been strongest, it should be kept in mind that she also won Nevada, Massachusetts, and at least with respect to delegates in Iowa. (A basic key detail is Hillary has no true need at this point to win upcoming as decisively as she has won those previous southern ones, although similar results would effectively the perception that Sanders still has a chance to win.) In fact the only state Sanders has won with a particularly significant African-American minority is Michigan, and it should still be noted that his actual margin of victory was still only 1.5% in the state. The problem is what margins of victory Sanders would actually need in the remaining states to catch up especially if the current March 15th polls are remotely accurate.

Basically unless there is a sudden swing towards Sanders which hasn't shown up yet in recent state polls, or the polls are all basically dramatically off this time, there still is not a true plausible path for victory for Sanders post March 15th barring something that causes a sudden very dramatic collapse in voter support for Hillary.
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Gaidin »

The Romulan Republic wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan- ... 34118.html
2016-03-11-1457658246-7438103-FINALjpegGraphicpolldefyingwins.jpg
Bernie Sanders' historic upset in Tuesday night's Michigan Primary, which the nation's most influential polling aggregator estimated he would lose by 22 points, may prove to be the turning point in this election. That's because Sanders' two point victory in Michigan follows just a week or less after three other huge, but barely unnoticed poll-defying victories by Sanders in Colorado, Minnesota, and Kansas. Taken together with these other states, the Michigan upset is not, as America's foremost poll analyst Nate Silver claimed, a freak event not witnessed since the New Hampshire primary of 1984, but part of a new pattern of poll-defying results that will, if they continue, carry Bernie Sanders into the White House.

In the March 1st Super Tuesday contest, Sanders won Colorado by 19 points. The most recent poll there had shown him winning by 6 percent of the vote, adding up to a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 25 points. In Minnesota, which Bernie won by 23 points, the only poll (with a "margin of error of 5.9 percent") from the Minneapolis StarTribune prior to the election predicted that Clinton would beat Sanders by 34 points, adding up to a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 57 percent. In the under-reported Kansas contest on March 5, Bernie won by 35 percent, instead of losing by 10 percent as predicted, a poll-to-reality discrepancy of 45 percent.

The compelling question that eight days of election results in Michigan, Kansas, Colorado and Minnesota raises is how accurate are all the other recent polls showing Clinton victories on the March 15th Super Tuesday sequel? If Bernie surpasses the polls in these states by as much as he just did in Michigan, he stands to score historic upsets in the important delegate-rich states of Ohio and even North Carolina.

If Sanders does nearly as well as the 41 percent average poll-to-reality discrepancy of the four state pattern described above, Bernie may even win Illinois and Florida next week. Should that happen, it will be Bernie, not Hillary, who will have become "inevitable."

Why Aren't Voters Listening to the Polls?

The media drumbeat that Hillary Clinton has the election in the bag has been going on for months now. A few weeks ago, New York Times Washington correspondent Nate Cohn confirmed Hillary's coronation in a column titled, "Hillary Clinton and Inevitability: This Time Is Different." Cohn looked at the delegate count and compared Clinton's performance in 2008 with how she was doing this year, and concluded, "If a candidate has ever been inevitable -- for the nomination -- it is Mrs. Clinton today."

Media experts like Cohn point to an abundance of polls masquerading as news as the basis upon which they inform voters that Hillary Clinton will be winning the primary election. Poll results translate into conventional wisdom and until the startling Sanders upsets during the past few weeks, become a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy. The March 6 press release by the Mitchell/FOX 2 Detroit Poll, viewable in its entirely here, is a great example of how this was supposed to work in Michigan.

Detroit's widely watched Fox News commissioned Steve Mitchell, the region's top polling firm, to do more than a half dozen polls in the weeks leading up to the Michigan primary. The pollster's pre-election press release was headlined:

Clinton Opens Up Huge Lead in Michigan
(Clinton 66 percent - Sanders 29 percent)

It continued, "In a poll conducted Sunday afternoon and evening before the start of their CNN debate in Flint, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has opened up a huge lead over Vermont U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders among Democratic Party Presidential Primary voters in Michigan. Clinton leads Sanders 66 percent-29 percent, up from 55 percent-37 percent on Thursday night. Only 6 percent of the voters remain undecided."

The poll, the press release explained, was scientific and accurate. Mitchell's press release provided pages of tables and informed reporters that, "A quadruple filter was used to determine that we were surveying only likely Democratic Party Primary voters." The poll "has a Margin of Error of + or - 4.5 percent at the 95 percent level of confidence."

To spoon feed deadline reporters conventional wisdom, Mitchell provided this explanatory quote: "Hillary Clinton (66 percent), fueled by strong support from women and African-Americans, has a tremendous lead over Bernie Sanders (29 percent), Clinton is seems poised to win convincingly in Michigan on Tuesday. She came into the state earlier than Sanders and she really made the Flint water crisis her issue, adding to her already strong support among African-Americans, who could make up a quarter of all voters."

2016-03-11-1457658288-2397846-FoxMichiganHeadlinewithlesstext.jpg

The message to be conveyed to readers, viewers and listeners the day before the big presidential election was clear: Pack it in, would-be Sanders voters. You're dreaming if you think your puny vote will make a difference! Might as well stay home.

But a funny thing happened in Michigan. Bernie voters didn't listen to the polls, or the pundits. They turned out anyway, as they did in Kansas, Minnesota, and Colorado. And during next week's big primaries, the purportedly scientific polls that today show a big Hillary sweep in every state are going to seem a lot less scientific.

Other Indicators That Bernie Will Win the Nomination

In addition to the poll-to-reality discrepancy pattern described above, another encouraging indicator for the Sanders campaign is that his largest victories seem to lie ahead, while Hillary's are nearly all behind her. As Seth Abramson observed in this excellent Huffington Post column titled, "5 Reasons the Clinton-Sanders Race Is Much, Much Closer Than You Think", after Clinton's big wins in very red Southern States, "In virtually every other state left to vote -- twenty-eight states, to be exact -- the demographics are substantially more favorable for Sanders than they were in even the "friendliest" state for him in the South (Virginia). Perhaps this is why he's leading in the most recent polls in Wisconsin, Utah, and Idaho... This may be why even the Clinton boosters on CNN are now saying that they're worried Clinton will lose Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri to Sanders next week. In other words, Hillary performed impressively only in the South, and in less than a week there will be no more South for her to mine for votes."

One more indicator that Bernie will be the Democratic nominee is the least known, even though it has the most successful predictive track record. American University's Kogod School of Business tracked every Presidential primary since 1968 to determine which state primaries for each party were most likely to predict the eventual winner in the nomination contest. In their extensive study, only one state was found to predict the Democratic nominee 100 percent of the time for every presidential election during the last 50 years.

That state was Kansas.

Bernie won Kansas on March 5, with a poll-defying 67.7 percent of the vote.
This seems a bit overly optimistic to me, but an interesting analysis in any case.
I find the idea of 'poll-defying' in democratic races in Colorado, Minnesota, and Kansas to be...funny considering there weren't even enough done to put an analysis up on 538.
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GrandMasterTerwynn
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Yeah, the HuffPo article doesn't occupy the same reality that the rest of us do. In Michigan, Sanders out-performed polling data by about 23 points. In Kansas, it was by over 25 points. In Oklahoma, it was only by twelve points. In Massachusetts, he only outperformed the polls by five points, and only by three in Iowa. In Texas, he under-performed by two points; in Virginia, he under-performed by eight points, and the less said about the rest of the South, the better.

Granted, there are relatively few data points, looking at some poll data ... but Clinton's growing lead in pledged delegates (completely ignoring the supers) should tell the casual primary-watcher all they need to know about the performance of the two candidates.

Of the primaries coming up on Tuesday, given Sanders performance with respect to polling data, he might manage narrow victories or losses in Missouri (Clinton leads by 7 points) and Ohio (Clinton's average lead is 20.) Illinois and Florida polls show Clinton with prohibitive leads (with average leads of over thirty points.) So Tuesday will be another night where the best victory Sanders can hope for is a Pyrrhic one ... thanks to the Democrats' proportional delegate assignment, whatever dramatic narrow wins he achieves are completely erased (and then some,) by commanding Clinton victories elsewhere.

Basically, the only plausible path for a Sanders nomination is Clinton choking to death on a pretzel. The Justice Department is making no noises whatsoever about the possibility of indicting her, despite all the attention paid to her e-mail server (and it's far more likely there will be some sacrificial lamb who worked for Clinton when she was SecState, whose blood will be spilled to protect their former boss's career.)
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Mr Bean
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Mr Bean »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
Basically, the only plausible path for a Sanders nomination is Clinton choking to death on a pretzel. The Justice Department is making no noises whatsoever about the possibility of indicting her, despite all the attention paid to her e-mail server (and it's far more likely there will be some sacrificial lamb who worked for Clinton when she was SecState, whose blood will be spilled to protect their former boss's career.)
The Justice Department making pre-noise about indicting Clinton? No way in hell that leaks. It's an FBI investigation involving dozens of agents and the Justice Department has almost no role until such time as the FBI finishes their investigation and recommends indictment. That's the process which is why your hearing nothing from the Justice department, you won't until the FBI is done.

Trust me, the FBI will recommend indictment and then either the justice department will indict or three FBI agents will be on FOX News 24 hours later to explain on how President Obama personally stepped in to save the democratic front runner from over a thousand felony charges.

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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Omega18 »

Mr Bean wrote: Trust me, the FBI will recommend indictment and then either the justice department will indict or three FBI agents will be on FOX News 24 hours later to explain on how President Obama personally stepped in to save the democratic front runner from over a thousand felony charges.
The reality is the timing is increasingly making it improbable that an indictment would be issued until after the November election even if they did decide to go that route. There is a very well established tradition of the Justice Department avoiding issuing indictment close to elections when its clear they are likely to alter the results, and this is more true the more prominent the election in question. (Basically they try to leave enough time that the candidate is question could at least have theoretically have plausibly had the opportunity to have the trial and clear their name rather than the mere fact of the indictment definitively determining the election outcome, and really want to avoid seemingly like a politically partisan agency with the timing of indictments.) This is why realistically the FBI would have done everything possible to be in position to bring the investigation to a point where they could announce the indictment of Hillary earlier in the primary season if they thought they were going to go that route. (If they tried to force the Justice Department to announce an indictment much close to the election that would seriously damage the FBI's reputation as being impartial agents of the law and make long term enemies of allot of Democrats who would effectively retaliate against the FBI for handling the investigation in such a manner timing wise once they were back in a position of political power to do so.)

Basically the last time I could theoretically personally plausibly see the Justice Department announcing the indictment during the true contested primary would be March 16th or perhaps a couple days after that since this would give Joe Biden potential time to actually be on the ballot for a few last primaries. (With the point being this could help make him look like a fairly legitimate nominee at the convention under such circumstances depending on his performance in those states.) This might be workable because the Justice Department could presumably effectively give Biden an advanced heads up to make a decision to run and plan the initial steps to get on the ballots in states, due to the political implications of the Democratic Primary front-runner and former Secretary of State being indicted and therefore his position of Vice-President justifying him knowing in advance of the announcement.

The alternate possibility would be after the Democratic nomination fight is effectively truly mathematically already over to avoid a situation where its clear their indictment specifically ensured Sanders would be the Democratic Party nominee without the party really having an option to pick another candidate given the timing of the indictment. The problem is this would effectively be mostly counting on Hillary to do the right thing which seems like an odd assumption to make given that they would be making it after they just found Hillary had previously committed acts serious enough to bring significant criminal charges against her for.

It also should be noted that legal experts looking at the evidence so far say she is unlikely to be indicted period.
“There are plenty of unattractive facts but not a lot of clear evidence of criminality, and we tend to forget the distinction,” American University law professor Stephen Vladeck, an expert on prosecutions involving classified information, told me. “This is really just a political firestorm, not a criminal case.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

Basically especially as the laws have actually been enforced to this point with respect to actual criminal prosecutions, especially if you're not part of the military or CIA, the disclosure has to pretty much have been intentional. In terms of gross negligence and the actually legally required standard, if she had been the head of the State Department's IT it could be a different story, but it remains plausible she had a certain amount of ignorance regarding email and network security when she actually made her decisions.
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Mr Bean
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Mr Bean »

Omega18 wrote:
Basically especially as the laws have actually been enforced to this point with respect to actual criminal prosecutions, especially if you're not part of the military or CIA, the disclosure has to pretty much have been intentional. In terms of gross negligence and the actually legally required standard, if she had been the head of the State Department's IT it could be a different story, but it remains plausible she had a certain amount of ignorance regarding email and network security when she actually made her decisions.
See that's the part I don't agree with, the law is specifically written ABOUT gross negligence and classified material handling laws are written that ignorance is no defense, in fact your required to sign several documents telling you exactly what the law is when your given a clearance and you have to sign on the line about seven times that you know negligence on your part is not allowed and will be prosecuted.

My take on why we've not seen the FBI release the indictment request is simple... This is Hillary Clinton she has been a part of over thirty scandals some real some manufactured (About 1/3rd to 2/3rd fake) and four or five times now depending on who's counting she's had investigations against her for her actions as the wife of a governor, as the wife of a president and as Secretary of State. The agents running the FBI investigation won't tolerate anything under than a slam dunk as far as the case has gone. Anything other than a 100% solid case can be politically dodged never mind if you or I were charged with the same circumstances we'd be in jail of 10,000 years.

Secretary Clinton is not to big to jail, but she's damn close to it with a friendly white house, a history of investigations and a long paper trail of questionable circumstances for the last three decades. The FBI case has to be perfect for any chance of a conviction.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
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Mr Bean
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Re: The US Election 2016

Post by Mr Bean »

In other news, a left wing lunatic (With possible mental issues) rushed Donald Trump while he was giving a speech. His name was Tommy DiMassimo and the reason I know he's left wing and crazy is simple...

He's got a Youtube page, you can google for it but trust me, this is 50% attention seeking 50% he might be having mental issues and today the dog told him to go fuck Donald Trump.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
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