Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

[LadyTevar]

McConnell has blocked any votes on any funding bill that doesn't have the Wall.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Of course he has.

[LadyTevar]

Of course he has.

At least the HOUSE keeps trying:
House passes bills to reopen Agriculture and Transportation
The problem? They still have to be approved by the Senate and President, and if McConnell won't allow bills to come to vote, the Bills die.

However... this is also a really good political move by Pelosi and the House to show they are trying to get things done, and it's the Senate (McConnell) and the President who are being obstructionists.

[FaxModem1]

Let's assume, for the moment, that Trump tries to fix this by declaring a national emergency. What, realistically, happens?

[The Romulan Republic]

McConnell has blocked any votes on any funding bill that doesn't have the Wall.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html

The man has unreservedly whored himself out to the fascists. History should rememberer him as a traitor and a Quisling.

Let's assume, for the moment, that Trump tries to fix this by declaring a national emergency. What, realistically, happens?

It gets challenged in the courts (Congressional Democrats have already said they will do this). The ultimate outcome likely depends on whether it reaches the Supreme Court before RBG dies/retires and a replacement is voted in.

If Trump is permitted to do it, then a severe blow is dealt to the system of checks and balances, Congressional oversight is neutered, and we are either a military dictatorship or something very close to it, and Trump will go full steam ahead on his ethnic cleansing.

[The Romulan Republic]

Seriously, this has to be the line. Trump is trying to negate Congress's constitutional right and obligation to serve as a check on the President, first by holding the country hostage, and then by threatening to declare a bogus state of emergency and deploy the military on US soil to seize private and state property, so that he can rule by Presidential fiat and carry out his campaign to Make America White Again. That cannot be allowed.

We absolutely should and must pursue every alternative first- the courts, peaceful protest, any kind of buerocratic stonewalling possible, impeachment. But if it comes down to it- allow Trump to use the military to bypass Congress and seize private property in order to further a campaign of ethnic cleansing, or resist by force of arms- then we should choose the latter.

If I were the governor of a border state, my ultimatum to Trump would be as follows: You send your troops, and I will deploy my State's National Guard units against them. Any troops on private or state land without the lawful owner's permission will be arrested as trespassers. If they resist, they will be fired upon as insurrectionists and traitors.

[The Romulan Republic]

Congress is calling on Michael Cohen to testify publicly.

According to Cuomo on CNN tonight, Mueller has cleared him to discuss anything he wants with Congress on television, which to me is perhaps the strongest indication yet that Mueller is either nearly finished, or expects to be in four weeks time (when Cohen is due to testify).

[Esquire]

Let's assume, for the moment, that Trump tries to fix this by declaring a national emergency. What, realistically, happens?

Plausibly, the CA Attorney General immediately sues (I would bet you real money the paperwork's already filled out, just not dated or stamped), the courts order a stay of implementation while things are adjudicated, that process takes more than two years, and nothing comes of it at all. Both sides claim victory, very nearly nobody cares by the time of the next election.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm tempted to say "whatever works, as long as its blocked", and for the most part that's true, but I think that its important for Trump to be seen to lose on this publicly, as well. Because he's trying to set a precedent here, that Congress is toothless to constrain Presidential power. And that shit needs to be very clearly and publicly shut down.

Ultimately, I suppose, its on the media and the Democratic Party spokespeople to counter any Trumpian spin on the subject.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

The man has unreservedly whored himself out to the fascists. History should rememberer him as a traitor and a Quisling.

That's assuming we win, Rom.

Even if that happens, he'll either be forgotten, or his history revised. Like Nixon.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm still holding out for the admittedly slim hope that further investigation will reveal that he was knowingly complicit in collusion during the election (or in subsequently covering it up). Nothing like a felony conviction to tarnish someone's image.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I'm still holding out for the admittedly slim hope that further investigation will reveal that he was knowingly complicit in collusion during the election (or in subsequently covering it up). Nothing like a felony conviction to tarnish someone's image.

Micheal Milken would beg to differ. Remember him?

[The Romulan Republic]

Well it looks like Dickless, for the moment at least, has blinked:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/p ... trump.html

President Trump has stepped back from declaring a national emergency to pay for a border wall, under pressure from congressional Republicans, his own lawyers and advisers, who say using it as a way out of the government shutdown does not justify the precedent it would set and the legal questions it could raise.

"If today the national emergency is border security, tomorrow the national emergency might be climate change," Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, one of the idea's critics, said this week. Another Republican, Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, told an interviewer that declaring a national emergency should be reserved for "the most extreme circumstances."

We can't have the President acting like a dictator, because someday a Democrat might be in power!

But the thing is, its true- you don't want to break the system (unless you're a complete narcissist or nihilist), because you can't guarantee that you will always be the man on top (indeed history shows that you won't be). The system of checks and balances, and the peaceful transfer of power it ensures, benefits all sides, because it means that not every fight has to be a fight to the death. If more Republicans had remembered this sooner, we wouldn't be in this situation.

And I suppose its reassuring that at least some Republican legislators are still thinking in terms of a post-Trump Presidency, whether because they don't want a permanent Republican dictatorship, or because they believe that they cannot pull it off.

Edit: On the downside, the shutdown has now officially become the longest in US history:

https://www.businessinsider.com/governm ... ll-2019-01

I honestly suspect that this isn't going to end while Trump is in office, at this point. The Democrats can't fold, both because it will alienate the base going into 2020, and because, more importantly, it would mean surrendering Congress's duty to act as a check on Presidential power, and sending a message that Trump can get whatever he wants by holding the country hostage. And Trump won't back down, because he's a petty little small-dicked narcissist. And the Republican leadership won't reign in Trump, because they've sold their souls to Trumpism and live in terror of his rabid base. This only ends when we a) elect a Democratic majority or supermajority in both houses, or b) when Trump is removed from office by impeachment, indictment, or the 25th. Amendment (which probably won't happen until a) does, realistically). So prepare for a two-year shutdown, and the gutting of much of our Federal government as employees are forced to seek new jobs so their families can, you know, live.

[Highlord Laan]

On one hand, the misadministration of Chungus the Orange is doing massive damage to the country and making it a total mockery to the rest of the world.

On the other hand, by 2020 there's hope the dipshit will do so much damage to the repukes as a whole that they get chased out of power for the next thirty years.

[The Romulan Republic]

One can only hope. But I think that unless top people (ie Trump(s)) go to prison, then we will likely just see this happen again only worse, and sooner rather than later.

One of the worst mistakes America ever made was letting Richard Nixon go. Nixon was the beginning of the decline of the Republican Party to treason and despotism and white supremacy that has culminated in Trump (indeed, one of the top figures of interest to the Mueller probe, Roger Stone, got his start in politics under Nixon IIRC). In fact, throughout US history we have had criminal Presidents, and while some have been impeached, or seriously threatened with impeachment, and Nixon was forced out of office, none has ever been convicted. None has ever been imprisoned. And that has sent a message that if you become President, you can expect to flout the laws and never really pay for it. That has encouraged criminality in the highest places, and eroded public trust in the government and democracy, creating fertile soil for "Both Sides" narratives, anti-democratic cynicism, and the lies of strong men.

There needs to be a reckoning. Sooner or later, we are going to have to bite the bullet and put a corrupt President in jail, instead of worrying about how it will be divisive or undermine the country. What undermines the country is obviously corrupt men walking free.

[The Romulan Republic]

I mean, for fuck's sake, it isn't like Donald Trump just bent the rules or slipped up once or twice. He's an accused serial rapist, sexual harasser and domestic abuser; routinely breaks his deals and fails to pay his employees; runs businesses that hire illegal immigrants while stirring up hate against them; ran a fraudulent university and a fraudulent charity that's been shut down by the State of New York; was sued for inciting political violence as a Presidential candidate; violates almost every conceivable government and business ethics regulation and then lies endless and blatantly abuses his power to try to cover his ass; once boasted that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose a vote; and as it just was revealed today, had an FBI counterintelligence investigation into the possibility that he was a Russian agent while sitting PotUS.

If this man doesn't belong in jail, who the fuck does? Why do we even have a police and courts and prisons if we're not going to use them on Donald Trump?

Edit: I'm going to paraphrase Gordon from The Killing Joke- I want Trump brought in. And I want him brought in by the book (even if I know that it could get so bad that the only recourse left is revolt). We have to show the the world that our way works.

[Broomstick]

On one hand, the misadministration of Chungus the Orange is doing massive damage to the country and making it a total mockery to the rest of the world.

On the other hand, by 2020 there's hope the dipshit will do so much damage to the repukes as a whole that they get chased out of power for the next thirty years.

Yeah, that's what we all thought in 1974... but the Democratic "take over" only lasted from 1976-1980, after which it was "Saint" Ronnie and too many Republicans again.

[Broomstick]

One of the worst mistakes America ever made was letting Richard Nixon go. Nixon was the beginning of the decline of the Republican Party to treason and despotism and white supremacy that has culminated in Trump (indeed, one of the top figures of interest to the Mueller probe, Roger Stone, got his start in politics under Nixon IIRC). In fact, throughout US history we have had criminal Presidents, and while some have been impeached, or seriously threatened with impeachment, and Nixon was forced out of office, none has ever been convicted.

What was done back then was done with the best of intentions, not malice. With hindsight we can see that more pain then might have meant less now, but no one can foresee the future.

What we need to take from that is the knowledge that if we're going to force a President from office we need to do things a little differently this time.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

On one hand, the misadministration of Chungus the Orange is doing massive damage to the country and making it a total mockery to the rest of the world.

On the other hand, by 2020 there's hope the dipshit will do so much damage to the repukes as a whole that they get chased out of power for the next thirty years.

Yeah, that's what we all thought in 1974... but the Democratic "take over" only lasted from 1976-1980, after which it was "Saint" Ronnie and too many Republicans again.

What happens when we decide we want an honest man in office...then, when we get him, we decide we wanted to be lied to after all.

[bilateralrope]

Border Protection officers sue Trump administration over pay missed during shutdown

By Deanna Paul January 10
The National Treasury Employees Union became the second federal employees' union to file a lawsuit against the Trump administration over the shutdown.

The collective action alleges that more than 400,000 federal employees — including tens of thousands of NTEU members — are being forced to work without pay during the partial government closure.

The complaint asked that the named plaintiffs, Customs and Border Protection officers Eleazar Avalos and James Davis, and other similarly classified individuals be paid owed wages.

The government stalemate began Dec. 22. Since then, many federal agencies have temporarily closed, and workers' compensation has been indefinitely delayed because of a lapse in appropriated funds.

Even so, employees deemed “essential” or “excepted” have been expected to come to work. “Essential” government employees are those — like Avalos and Davis — who are “performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the protection of property.”

Days after the shutdown began, the largest federal employee union, the American Federation of Government Employees, filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration, alleging that hundreds of thousands of federal employees are illegally being forced to work without pay.

In that lawsuit, the two named plaintiffs, Justin Tarovisky and Grayson Sharp, are corrections officers with the federal Bureau of Prisons.

The NTEU lawsuit named Customs and Border Protection officer Albert Vieira as the plaintiff, though the union refiled a new complaint Wednesday naming Avalos and Davis as plaintiffs.

Tony Reardon, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, which represents 150,000 members at 33 federal agencies and departments, previously called the shutdown “a travesty.”

“Federal employees should not have to pay the personal price for all of this dysfunction,” Reardon said.

Greg O’Duden, general counsel for the National Treasury Employees Union, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that it seems inevitable now that tens of thousands of employees will not receive their paychecks.

“I think there will be more people added as we move along, when they realize they’re being shortchanged and damaged in a serious way,” he said.

During a 16-day shutdown in 2013, a Washington-based law firm sued the government over the funding for President Barack Obama’s health-care law. Attorneys argued that failure to pay federal workers on their regularly scheduled payday violated the Fair Labor Standards Act.

A court agreed, ruling that the FLSA requires on-time payment of any minimum or overtime wages earned by employees falling within its coverage. [b/]It ordered the government to pay double the amount owed them.[/b] About 25,000 employees are still waiting to receive those damages.

The lawsuit quotes President Trump’s acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, who warned earlier this week that “payroll will not go out as originally planned” if the stalemate did not end by midnight Tuesday.

It did not.

Now, the impasse continues with no end in sight.

Trump addressed the nation Tuesday evening and blamed congressional Democrats for a “growing humanitarian and security crisis” at the southern border.

“Democrats in Congress have refused to acknowledge the crisis, and they have refused to provide our brave border agents with the tools they desperately need to protect our families and our nation,” he said in the televised nine-minute appeal.

Democrats, in their rebuttal, argued that border security should be discussed separately from the shutdown after the government is reopened.

As the partial shutdown entered its third week, Trump announced he was considering declaring a national emergency and circumventing Congress to begin construction of a U.S.-Mexico border wall.

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders added Wednesday that the president is still thinking of doing so.

Note the court ordering paying the employees double what is owed. Which I understand is the standard penalty for intentionally not paying employees on time. Pity the Republicans only pretend to care about fiscal responsibility.

[Broomstick]

"Double wages owed" is actually on the low side - after my own lawsuit against an employer for non-payment of wages I was awarded seven times the amount of my lost wages (see link in my signature).

Then again, you're more likely to get the money out of the government, so a lower award is perhaps not that out of line for that circumstance.

[The Romulan Republic]

Good.

TV news is reporting that the Federal Courts may soon run out of money altogether, airport security is being compromised, and the Federal Reserve may soon not be able to forecast the economy.

Jesus, what a cluster fuck.

[Gandalf]

One of the worst mistakes America ever made was letting Richard Nixon go. Nixon was the beginning of the decline of the Republican Party to treason and despotism and white supremacy that has culminated in Trump (indeed, one of the top figures of interest to the Mueller probe, Roger Stone, got his start in politics under Nixon IIRC). In fact, throughout US history we have had criminal Presidents, and while some have been impeached, or seriously threatened with impeachment, and Nixon was forced out of office, none has ever been convicted.

What was done back then was done with the best of intentions, not malice. With hindsight we can see that more pain then might have meant less now, but no one can foresee the future.

I wouldn't call covering for a friend "the best of intentions."

[The Romulan Republic]

One of the worst mistakes America ever made was letting Richard Nixon go. Nixon was the beginning of the decline of the Republican Party to treason and despotism and white supremacy that has culminated in Trump (indeed, one of the top figures of interest to the Mueller probe, Roger Stone, got his start in politics under Nixon IIRC). In fact, throughout US history we have had criminal Presidents, and while some have been impeached, or seriously threatened with impeachment, and Nixon was forced out of office, none has ever been convicted.

What was done back then was done with the best of intentions, not malice. With hindsight we can see that more pain then might have meant less now, but no one can foresee the future.

What we need to take from that is the knowledge that if we're going to force a President from office we need to do things a little differently this time.

Namely, that Trump and anyone in his inner circle needs to be run through the Justice System, properly and cleanly and with full due process, and then made a very public example of.

[Broomstick]

One of the worst mistakes America ever made was letting Richard Nixon go. Nixon was the beginning of the decline of the Republican Party to treason and despotism and white supremacy that has culminated in Trump (indeed, one of the top figures of interest to the Mueller probe, Roger Stone, got his start in politics under Nixon IIRC). In fact, throughout US history we have had criminal Presidents, and while some have been impeached, or seriously threatened with impeachment, and Nixon was forced out of office, none has ever been convicted.

What was done back then was done with the best of intentions, not malice. With hindsight we can see that more pain then might have meant less now, but no one can foresee the future.

I wouldn't call covering for a friend "the best of intentions."

Ford may or may not have pardoned Nixon for personal/friendship reasons.

The rest of the country, however, let it happen without significant protest in the interest of putting the mess behind the nation and getting on with things, rather than dragging the matter out and causing/maintaining a crisis. It seemed like a reasonable thing to do for many people, even as they questioned whether or not Nixon should have been pardoned vs. going to jail. The feeling at the time was that the nation might have dodged a bullet on that. Nixon was out of office, criminals were in jail, let's move on was the general sentiment.