Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

[Lord Revan]

For all we know it has been it just not made public yet.

That said something I've been thinking is that Russia is probably gonna have a massive drug problem in their hands soon considering they're got large number of wounded soldiers at least some of which will end up addicted to pain killers (I highly doubt Russia has any programs in place to make sure veterans treated with heavy duty pain killers will not end up addicted or at least if they do that addiction is treated).

Why would Putin want them treated? With them addicted, you have another way to control them.

Only if Russian government is willing to supply them with the drugs, otherwise it's major internal stability issue especially if the rumors about criminals getting their hands on military weapons is true.

[Lord Revan]

For all we know it has been it just not made public yet.

That said something I've been thinking is that Russia is probably gonna have a massive drug problem in their hands soon considering they're got large number of wounded soldiers at least some of which will end up addicted to pain killers (I highly doubt Russia has any programs in place to make sure veterans treated with heavy duty pain killers will not end up addicted or at least if they do that addiction is treated).

Why would Putin want them treated? With them addicted, you have another way to control them.

Only if Russian government is willing to supply them with the drugs, otherwise it's major internal stability issue especially if the rumors about criminals getting their hands on military weapons is true.

EDIT (due to closed edit window): Putin is many things but what he isn't (as far we know) is the supreme ruler of all organized crime in Russia, so there's likely criminal elements willing to supply the addicts if the government won't nor will it be just 1 organization doing so so there will be gang wars, now possibly with military weapons.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Why would Putin want them treated? With them addicted, you have another way to control them.

Only if Russian government is willing to supply them with the drugs, otherwise it's major internal stability issue especially if the rumors about criminals getting their hands on military weapons is true.

EDIT (due to closed edit window): Putin is many things but what he isn't (as far we know) is the supreme ruler of all organized crime in Russia, so there's likely criminal elements willing to supply the addicts if the government won't nor will it be just 1 organization doing so so there will be gang wars, now possibly with military weapons.

Well we already know Wagner is actively recruiting criminals so I'd say that's true enough, the only question is how many desert and take their gear with them.

[LadyTevar]

Only if Russian government is willing to supply them with the drugs, otherwise it's major internal stability issue especially if the rumors about criminals getting their hands on military weapons is true.

EDIT (due to closed edit window): Putin is many things but what he isn't (as far we know) is the supreme ruler of all organized crime in Russia, so there's likely criminal elements willing to supply the addicts if the government won't nor will it be just 1 organization doing so so there will be gang wars, now possibly with military weapons.

Well we already know Wagner is actively recruiting criminals so I'd say that's true enough, the only question is how many desert and take their gear with them.

According to the Asylum seeker, Wagner is also actively hunting down deserters and killing them, as per the sledgehammer incident we already know about.

[Solauren]

According to the Asylum seeker, Wagner is also actively hunting down deserters and killing them, as per the sledgehammer incident we already know about.

So, Wagner is recruiting criminals, who then desert. So, Wagner hunt them down instead of going entirely after the Ukraine?

Not really seeing a huge problem with that in of itself.

[Broomstick]

You know, there are a lot of scummy criminals but I have a hard time justify bashing peoples' skulls in with a sledgehammer. There's just so much wrong with the whole Wagner thing.

[LadyTevar]

You know, there are a lot of scummy criminals but I have a hard time justify bashing peoples' skulls in with a sledgehammer. There's just so much wrong with the whole Wagner thing.

Agreed.
And having a Unit Commander now where NATO Intelligence can talk to him will finally answer some of the questions. Like "Who Is Bankrolling Them".

The Asylum seeker's lawyer is claiming he brought incriminating paperwork with him. We'll probably never hear what's on it, but if it puts cracks in Wagner's foundations that would be a big help.

[Ralin]

You know, there are a lot of scummy criminals but I have a hard time justify bashing peoples' skulls in with a sledgehammer. There's just so much wrong with the whole Wagner thing.

I mean, I'm not saying I support it, but executing deserters as an example to others does seem like a situation where doing it in a dramatic and showy way would have legit deterrent value over just shooting them cleanly and discretely.

Generally that's not true for criminal punishments, but given the circumstances.

[wautd]

I suppose someone should tell the Russians that it's pretty damn hard to win the propaganda war (or even the actual war) when the enemy seems to target military targets, while you focus on targeting residential housing.

It's now illegal to put flowers on a shrine remembering Ukrainian victims of the Russian terror bombing attack in Dnipro

[Broomstick]

I mean, I'm not saying I support it, but executing deserters as an example to others does seem like a situation where doing it in a dramatic and showy way would have legit deterrent value over just shooting them cleanly and discretely.

Well, yes, if you strip all morality from the discussion it IS an effective way of instilling fear in the troops and presumably would act as a deterrent. Certainly, with that sort of draconian punishment no one will desert twice.

But if you have even a mote of empathy or what I would consider ethics - pretty repulsive.

[The Infidel]

Well well well... HERE'S something that you'd not expect:

Russia's Wagner Group commander requests Norway asylum

A former commander with the Russian paramilitary Wagner Group has claimed asylum in Norway after deserting from the mercenary outfit.

Andrey Medvedev, 26, crossed the border into Norway last Friday, where he was detained by border guards.
He is currently being held in the Oslo area where he faces charges of illegal entry to Norway, his lawyer Brynjulf Risnes told the BBC.
Mr Risnes said his client left Wagner after witnessing war crimes in Ukraine.

The Norwegian Border Guard confirmed to the BBC that a Russian man had been detained after crossing the country's 198km (123miles) long border with Russia, but said it could not comment further for "reasons of security and privacy".

Tarjei Sirma-Tellefsen, police chief of staff in the Norwegian region of Finnmark, said a man had been detained by a border patrol and said he had applied for asylum.

But the Russian human rights group Gulagu, who helped Mr Medvedev leave Russia, confirmed his identity. His escape is believed to be the first known instance of one of the group's soldiers defecting to the West.
Gulagu's founder Vladimir Osechkin told the BBC that Mr Medvedev had joined the paramilitary group in July 2022 on a four-month contract, but had deserted after witnessing a host of human rights abuses and war crimes while serving in Ukraine.
He said that Mr Medvedev is a former soldier in the Russian army and that he later served time in prison between 2017 and 2018 before joining the Wagner Group.
He was placed in charge of a Wagner division in Ukraine, where the mercenary group supplied him with around 30-40 troops every week, Mr Osechkin said.

In a video posted by Gulagu to its social media channels, Mr Medvedev said he fled Ukraine in November after being informed that the group intended to extend his contract indefinitely.

After spending two months underground in Russia, he crossed the border into Norway last week.

Mr Risnes said his client had also witnessed a host of war crimes while fighting in Ukraine, including seeing "deserters being executed" by the Wagner Group's internal security service.
"In short he felt betrayed and wanted to leave as soon as possible," Mr Risnes said.
He added that he believed Mr Medvedev had taken some evidence of war crimes with him to Norway and that he intends to share his information with groups investigating war crimes in the coming weeks.

In response to the allegations, the founder of the Wagner Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, confirmed that Mr Medvedev was a former Wagner soldier.
But in a press release issued by one of his companies, he said Mr Medvedev held Norwegian citizenship and had led a battalion of soldiers from the Scandinavian nation.
Mr Prigozhin also accused him of "mistreatment of prisoners" and said that his former employee was "very dangerous". Mr Risnes told the BBC that Mr Prigozhin's claims were not true.

UK officials believe the Wagner Group makes up about 10% of Russia's forces in Ukraine, and played a significant part in helping Moscow's forces take the town of Soledar in eastern Donbas region last week.
Thousands of its troops have been recruited from Russian prisons. Mr Prigozhin - a former convict himself - has promised recruits their freedom in exchange for six months service in Ukraine.

Before the invasion of Ukraine, it had only a few thousand mercenaries. Most were believed to be experienced former soldiers, including some from Russia's elite regiments and special forces.
Since 2015, it is believed to have deployed troops to Syria, Libya, Mali and the Central African Republic.

Yeah, this has been on the news in Norway. The Wagner Group apparently have a habit of offing deserters with a sledgehammer, not a nice way to go. The latest news is whether he can be handed over or not if Ukraine want him on trial for war crimes. There's no secret that intelligence agencies would love to have a chat with him.

[Solauren]

He probably will not talk with the Ukraine unless they promise not to prosecute him. Effectively turning States Witness.

[Ralin]

He probably will not talk with the Ukraine unless they promise not to prosecute him. Effectively turning States Witness.

Not sure if he really gets a choice about talking at this point.

[Solauren]

He probably will not talk with the Ukraine unless they promise not to prosecute him. Effectively turning States Witness.

Not sure if he really gets a choice about talking at this point.

Sure he does.

He can talk, or spend the rest of his life in a cell.
(He's to high profile now to 'break' besides letting him rot).

[Ralin]

Well, yes, if you strip all morality from the discussion it IS an effective way of instilling fear in the troops and presumably would act as a deterrent. Certainly, with that sort of draconian punishment no one will desert twice.

But if you have even a mote of empathy or what I would consider ethics - pretty repulsive.

I just feel like it's not that big of a jump from executing deserters to deciding that if you're executing them anyway you might as well make it memorable to drive the point home.

Not really interested in making the case that it should be done, but it does seem weird to me because I don't think most people would feel major moral outrage over the former. It's not like they're any deader than they would be with a bullet to the head. And it's probably not as painful as a botched lethal injection.

[Solauren]

Sledgehammer is overkill. If you want to drive a point home, tape putting a bullet to the back of the head with the deserters weapon sends the message home nicely. Anything more, probably not needed. Maybe cremating the body and putting it an unmarked grave, but beyond that (shrugs)

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

That wholly depends on the ammunition situation. If you don't have the ammo to spare... you have to get creative.

[Ralin]

I'm pretty sure the overkill is part of the point.

Anyway, not trying to be a ghoul here. That's just how it strikes me.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I'm pretty sure the overkill is part of the point.

Anyway, not trying to be a ghoul here. That's just how it strikes me.

"Strikes"

[LadyTevar]

Sledgehammer is overkill. If you want to drive a point home, tape putting a bullet to the back of the head with the deserters weapon sends the message home nicely. Anything more, probably not needed. Maybe cremating the body and putting it an unmarked grave, but beyond that (shrugs)

From what I understand "overkill" was the POINT.
They wanted all deserters to get the message, so they made it as ugly and bloody as possible. The guy doing it obviously enjoying himself was sickening.

[Lord Revan]

Sledgehammer is overkill. If you want to drive a point home, tape putting a bullet to the back of the head with the deserters weapon sends the message home nicely. Anything more, probably not needed. Maybe cremating the body and putting it an unmarked grave, but beyond that (shrugs)

From what I understand "overkill" was the POINT.
They wanted all deserters to get the message, so they made it as ugly and bloody as possible. The guy doing it obviously enjoying himself was sickening.

there's probably also the matter that they want to the soldiers to be as brutal as possible so they'll be able to kill defendless civilians including babies since IIRC the Wagner group is used when Kremlin wants something done and isn't sure the regular military is willing to do it.

[Solauren]

Sledgehammer is overkill. If you want to drive a point home, tape putting a bullet to the back of the head with the deserters weapon sends the message home nicely. Anything more, probably not needed. Maybe cremating the body and putting it an unmarked grave, but beyond that (shrugs)

From what I understand "overkill" was the POINT.
They wanted all deserters to get the message, so they made it as ugly and bloody as possible. The guy doing it obviously enjoying himself was sickening.

Sad thing is, there are lots of ways they could have made it far worse.

[LadyTevar]

I suppose someone should tell the Russians that it's pretty damn hard to win the propaganda war (or even the actual war) when the enemy seems to target military targets, while you focus on targeting residential housing.

It's now illegal to put flowers on a shrine remembering Ukrainian victims of the Russian terror bombing attack in Dnipro

I missed this one. Was anything else said about it? The people released? Or did they just vanish, like other "protestors"?

[wautd]

I suppose someone should tell the Russians that it's pretty damn hard to win the propaganda war (or even the actual war) when the enemy seems to target military targets, while you focus on targeting residential housing.

It's now illegal to put flowers on a shrine remembering Ukrainian victims of the Russian terror bombing attack in Dnipro

I missed this one. Was anything else said about it? The people released? Or did they just vanish, like other "protestors"?

I've no idea sadly

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Injured troops sent back despite doctors orders

Apparently, Russia is so desperate for troops they're sending wounded ones back into the fray.