the BREAKING NEWS debate thread

[Stravo]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/ ... index.html

The above is a story on 3ID soldiers firing on a van, whose driver would not stop, despite warning shots and shots into the engine compartment. The soldiers opened fire in earnest, when the van kept coming toward the checkpoint, killing women and children who were aboard. It appears as though all pertinent ROE were followed. Perhaps they should put up Arabic stop signs...

I saw on Nightline a few nights ago that some of the checkpoints DO have Arabic stop signs but not all of them. I think they need to get their asses in gear and do so.

[phongn]

Peter Arnett has been promptly hired by the UK Daily Mirror after being fired by MSNBC.

Ah, stupid companies think alike.

"With today's tabloid, enter to win an Audi, get a free bag of seeds an a coupon for 10p off tomorrow's edition!" <- Summary of an actual front page from the Mirror.

[Zoink]

Small rant about CNN, about the last few minutes of reporting:

Following CENTCOM's news release that a POW had been rescued, the stupid reporter immediately concluded that number of confirmed POWs is now 1 less (6 I think).... anyhow this immediately set of my "logic alarm bell" (tm) to the fact that this person could be one of the MIA, and not a confirmed POW..... anyhow it looks like this is the case. BAD BAD reporting CNN.

[Sea Skimmer]

Small rant about CNN, about the last few minutes of reporting:

Following CENTCOM's news release that a POW had been rescued, the stupid reporter immediately concluded that number of confirmed POWs is now 1 less (6 I think).... anyhow this immediately set of my "logic alarm bell" (tm) to the fact that this person could be one of the MIA, and not a confirmed POW..... anyhow it looks like this is the case. BAD BAD reporting CNN.

Next time pay attention.

The CNN I was watching had the reporter asking one of there military advisors what's the criteria for being classified as MIA or POW after he talked about the fact that this person was originally listed as MIA, but that the officer who did the briefing referred to the rescued person as being a POW.

[Zoink]

Next time pay attention.

The CNN I was watching had the reporter asking one of there military advisors what's the criteria for being classified as MIA or POW after he talked about the fact that this person was originally listed as MIA, but that the officer who did the briefing referred to the rescued person as being a POW.

The CNN I was watching had the female reporter conclude that the number of confirmed POWs was now 6 instead of 7. The CENTCOM officer did not say this.

[Zoink]

... further, CNN says the person is Jessica Lynch who had previously been classified MIA.... which doesn't rule out the fact she could have been a POW.

[GUTB]

CNN is reporting that 2 divisions of the Republican Gaurd have been destroyed outside of Bagdhad.

I am very, very skeptical about this claim. We'll see.

[SirNitram]

CNN is reporting that 2 divisions of the Republican Gaurd have been destroyed outside of Bagdhad.

I am very, very skeptical about this claim. We'll see.

Backed up by all the local newspapers. Hrm.

[jegs2]

CNN is reporting that 2 divisions of the Republican Gaurd have been destroyed outside of Bagdhad.

I am very, very skeptical about this claim. We'll see.

I don't see why you should be. Whenever Iraqi TOE forces go head-to-head with TOE US forces, they get their fourth points of contact handed to them. The only way that Iraqi forces see success against US forces is either through ambushing supply trains or conducting assymetrical attacks with irregular forces against TCP's or lightly-armed and armored vehicles, and even then one is hard-pressed to define that as "success." And unlike the Ewoks on Endor, (who also used such tactics against AT-ST's), the Iraqis don't have forces with firepower equal to the US, who can pull their butts out of the fire just in time to save the day for them.

[Master of Ossus]

CNN is reporting that 2 divisions of the Republican Gaurd have been destroyed outside of Bagdhad.

I am very, very skeptical about this claim. We'll see.

Why? Those divisions should already have moved to block Coalition forces if they still existed. The Coalition just rolled through the areas they used to be defending. Either those divisions have retreated to Baghdad (representing a substantial shift in Iraqi defense policy, which generally holds such divisions outside of a specific radius of Baghdad), or they've been destroyed. I don't see a lot of evidence for the retreat to the city, so they either went somewhere else (in which case they're not defending the city), or they're just not there anymore.

[Edi]

I'll add here that destroyed does not equal annihilated. It just means that their ability to operate as a coherent division has been destroyed. Individual battalions and companies may still be quite operative, but they're loose ends, and a lot of equipment and supplies are available only at divisional level, which means that the two divisions are no longer combat effective, and whatever subunits that are won't be for long unless they hook up with intact divisions.

Edi

[jegs2]

Another car bomb claims US soldiers' lives:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/ ... index.html

I thought they had nailed down their TTP's for TCPs, but apparently they haven't cracked the nut on how to conduct those yet. Someone at CENTCOM needs to pull their head out of their butt and ensure those TTPs get down to the MACOMs on the ground in Iraq before more of our men needlessly die from those incidents.

[SirNitram]

just before 10:00 AM another phone report from Arnot. Cyanide and Mustard agents in high concentrations in the Euphrates.

A Reverse Osmosis unit with the Marines was filtering the water out to purify it. In the process, they tested the water before putting it into the filters. Found large concentrations of cyanide and mustard agents. Arnot is getting this from the regimental commander and intelligence officer. Belief is that it was done deliberately to poison the Marines, rather than an attempt to get rid of it. Apparently the agents are so small that they would not be stopped by the reverse osmosis filters, so this is why they've been testing.

[If this is the case, then downsteam water supplies for the civilians will now be endangered]

Uh-oh. That's all I need to say. Uh-friggin'-oh.

[Kelly Antilles]

so, is this just fuel for us to prove that Saddam doesn't care about his people if he is going to poison an entire water supply?

[Companion Cube]

so, is this just fuel for us to prove that Saddam doesn't care about his people if he is going to poison an entire water supply?

A propaganda coup for us, perhaps, but the cost in human lives may be horrific if he starts doing that regularly....

[Montcalm]

I don`t know if it should go here.

Are they fucking mad alread they will put an American general in charge of runnig the show in Iraq,one more reason for arabs to hate the USA

[Raptor 597]

so, is this just fuel for us to prove that Saddam doesn't care about his people if he is going to poison an entire water supply?

Not nessecarily. He's a man wanting to take down as many with him as possible. I would too while making an exit. But he does not care about his people to begin with so its not a real surprise.

[MKSheppard]

Yes its EXACTLY the right time. They actualy have a good degree of popular support from the people there now, they have made a good deal of progress in proving they are not the genocidal rabid killing Machines Saddams PR machine has made them out to be.

Sort of like how Saddam tried to make US Marines out to be
rabid killing machines that had to kill a baby and drink it's blood
before they could become marines? Nobody buys that bullshit
anymore in Iraq. (that allegation was from Gulf War 1991)

And so now with a good deal of support they DO go in and hit hard the locations they need to and take over the city. And have done so in a way that actualy MAKES it appear as if they *shock* might be liberating them and helping them. Rather, then as you appear to always be suggesting, blasting in in an armoured shock attack and blow everything away that even looks like it might be threatening making many people WANT to fight them and WANT to help the fanatics in their undercover opps. Instead of providing reliable HUMINT on WHO they are and WHERE they are.

Doing minor pinprick raids over two weeks does nothing to help the civilians in Basra
while they starve or are shot in the back by Iraqi troops as they try to flee the city.

More people may die in the initial US assault, but we'll get humanitarian aid to them faster,
and save them the agony of a two week seige.

The Brits could have won the battle of Bazra in a day. What they have DONE with their tactics such as the getting to know the locals, the infamous soccer match with hundreds of people and other such stunts is help to win the PEACE which is grossly more importaint in the medium and long term and well worth waiting a week for.

A soccer match is going to help win hearts and minds?



This Iraqi soldier is going to go home after the war, and he's gonna
tell his family and friends how the Americans rushed out to save his
life after the battle, and had him evacuated to a hospital ASAP on a
helicopter alongside American casualties. You can't buy hearts and
minds like that with just a mere soccer game.

Sheash. Speed is NOT everything. The Brits have massive experence with this kind of situation in Northern Irland and are trying to get off on the RIGHT foot this time so it does NOT end up like there.

Great, and that explains why Northern Ireland is still fucked up and known terrorists who blew
up innocent civilians walk free?

[Warspite]

Shep, we already have been through this, and you still don't get it! The British are taking their time to avoid casualties. They know what they are doing, man! The incursion today was a success, no casualties on the side of the British, they couldn't had acheived that degree of success if they had entered the city in the first days, the waiting has payd up. Give it up, they have a doctrine that works!

[Axis Kast]

British operations are also on a smaller scale. We've got far more troops on-site and far more area to cover.

[SirNitram]

Shep simply can't fathom anything but Blitzkrieg's. I don't really understand why myself, but he doesn't understand the potency of native auxiliaries(In other words, those that rise up when the Brits march in and help with the fighting), native HUMINT(those that tell the Brits where everything is), and of course, the morale value of a group of cheering people when you finally capture the city. Basra is going to be a very peaceful place, even if only in comparison to the rest of Iraq.

[Axis Kast]

Some of the world's finest combat troops have been stereotypical "natives" or "colonials": British Gurkhas, German East African askaries, Rhodesian African Rifles, and Russian Cossacks.

[MKSheppard]

Shep simply can't fathom anything but Blitzkrieg's. I don't really understand why myself, but he doesn't understand the potency of native auxiliaries(In other words, those that rise up when the Brits march in and help with the fighting), native HUMINT(those that tell the Brits where everything is), and of course, the morale value of a group of cheering people when you finally capture the city.

*looks at Baghdad where there's an uprising against Saddam's goons without a two week suck ass period by US Forces*

You were saying?

[Warspite]

*looks at Baghdad where there's an uprising against Saddam's goons without a two week suck ass period by US Forces*

You were saying?

The British took only three KIA, and are actively supported by the population, who is helping them in rooting out the militias, they just walked into Basrah. How many KIA's in the US? Is the population receiving them with open arms? They had to go fighting.
You were saying?

Shep, knock it off! It's a different situation, requiring different methods, by different doctrines. Enough with this!

[MKSheppard]

Once again, the Third Infantry Division writes a bold page into it's history
book!